Journalists try to critique Donald Trump!

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2016

Journalists try and fail:
In our view, a fascinatingly weak discussion took place on Wednesday's Diane Rehm Show.

Three major journalists tried to discuss the challenges of covering Donald J. Trump. in various ways, we thought they did a poor job.

How well did this discussion go? How skillfully has it been critiqued? One exchange with Trump spokesperson Scottie Nell Hughes has produced a fair amount of reaction. We thought Rehm and her journalist guests handled it poorly, and that subsequent discussion has often been inept.

First, a note about Hughes. She is one of the many Trump spokespersons who have served as "minders" on CNN programs this year. That said, she is one of the less articulate major Trump spokespersons.

Kayleigh McEnany, who's straight out of Harvard Law School, is a very articulate spokesperson. Simply put, Hughes is not. This fact is relevant to the exchange on Rehm's show, and to the subsequent commentary.

Let's start with what Hughes said. Rehm's journalist guests had been discussing some of Trump's "lies." When Hughes was finally brought on the air, Rehm invited her to respond.

Below, you see the initial exchange. As always, Hughes is quite inarticulate.

Her presentation is so jumbled, it's hard to know what to highlight. We'll do the best we can. For tape and transcript, click here:
REHM (11/30/16): Now I know you've been listening since the top of the program, and I'm sure you've heard James Fallows talk about "lies" that Donald Trump has put out there in tweets, in things he's said. What do you make of that?

HUGHES: Well, I think it's also an idea of an opinion. And that's—

On one hand, I hear half the media saying that these are lies. But on the other half, there are many people that go, "No, it's true." And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts, they're not really facts. Everybody has a way—it's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true.

There's no such thing, unfortunately, any more of [sic] facts.
And so Mr. Trump's tweet amongst a certain crowd, a large—a large ma—a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some fa—he, in his, amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies, and there's no facts to back it up. So—
At this point, Rehm broke in. She threw to Politico's Glenn Thrush, who said he had to get his jaw off the floor.

"There are no objective facts? I mean, that is, that is an absolutely outrageous assertion," Thrush thundered, responding to what he apparently thought he had heard.

Is that what Hughes was saying in that (rather typically) jumbled oration? Was she trying to say "there are no objective facts?"

We don't get that impression. Like many people in cable news, Hughes is routinely unclear, bordering on incoherent. But it seems to us she was probably saying something like this:

Many people assert that certain "facts" contradict the things Trump says, but their alleged "facts" are often less than fully clear or less than fully dispositive. Unfortunately, everyone has a way of interpreting facts to suit their own purposes. When Trump's followers agree with his claims, they believe that they have facts which support his claims.

When she appears on CNN, Hughes is routinely jumbled. That said, she's no high theorist. In this case, we don't think she was making some sort of postmodern claim about the nature of truth. We don't think she was saying that there's no such thing as an objective fact.

We think she was saying that many critics of Trump overstate the case for their own basket of alleged "facts." And, without any doubt, that does sometimes happen.

This didn't settle the objective question to which Hughes referred. When Trump said that "millions of people illegally voted," was he making an accurate statement?

More precisely, was he making a statement whose accuracy he could demonstrate? Could he point to actual facts which demonstrate the accuracy of his statement?

Rehm and her journalist guests never established that point. Instead, they wandered the countryside, quickly moving on to a different question.

At one point, Hughes did offer "evidence" in support of Trump's claim about illegal voting, citing a study by four Old Dominion professors. This study has been widely discussed, as Rehm's guest should have known. Its relevance to Trump's claim has been widely challenged, including by at least one of its authors.

That said, Thrush didn't seem to have heard of the widely-cited study, and no one else jumped in. As is typical in pundit discussions, another journalist changed the subject before this matter could be further resolved.

Hughes' presentation was barely coherent. On the other hand, Rehm and her journalist guests were rather undisciplined too. They jumped about from point to point, failing to demonstrate any point. To our ear, Rehm's guests were unprepared on the subject matter, under-skilled to boot.

For these reasons, Hughes' jumbled oration faded into the mist. Until Kevin Drum presented an edited version of what she had said-a version we'd consider describing as "doctored" had it come from anyone else.

Below, we'll show the full text of what Hughes said. Then, we'll show you the version of her remarks presented to Drum's readers. We'll include Drum's highlights:
FULL STATEMENT BY HUGHES: On one hand, I hear half the media saying that these are lies. But on the other half, there are many people that go, "No, it's true." And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch is that people that say facts are facts, they're not really facts. Everybody has a way, it's kind of like looking at ratings or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth or not true.

There's no such thing, unfortunately, any more of [sic] facts. And so Mr. Trump's tweet amongst a certain crowd, a large—a large ma, a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some fa—he, in his, amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies, and there's no facts to back it up.

EDITED VERSION BY DRUM: People that say facts are facts, they're not really facts....There's no such thing, unfortunately anymore, as facts. And so Mr. Trump's tweet, amongst a certain crowd, a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some facts amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies and there's no facts to back it up. [emphases, ellipses by Drum]
To us, that's a shaky editing job. It did let Drum ridicule Hughes for having made the ridiculous claim that there's no such thing as facts.

We liberals love being fed this gruel. As is true in the other tribe, many pundits are willing to be our suppliers.

As for our major journalists, they stage scattershot discussions all the time, even on the Rehm Show. Skill levels are remarkably slight atop our mainstream press corps.

People like Trump exploit this fact. Our tribe enjoys kicking down at the folk who get conned in the process.

14 comments:

  1. As an aside, did Trump claim that 3 million illegal immigrants voted, or did he claim that that 3 million people voted illegally? The former claim is ridiculous on its face. The latter claim is unsourced and IMHO very unlikely. But, it's less ridiculous than the former claim, since there are many millions of non-citizens who are legally residing in the US.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think it's ridiculous, especially when there are 10s of millions of illegals in CA and there is no voter ID requirement there. It would be much more ridiculous to assert that no illegals voted. Of course we don't know the exact number, but that isn't conservatives' fault - that's on those who have rejected the aggressive enforcement of federal immigration law and the implementation of voter ID requirements.

      Delete
    2. Maj, moron. Illegals can't vote. Got it, dim bulb?

      Delete
    3. Maj (your profile name reminds me of this clip for some reason:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8w7Yz1Htz4

      )

      there are not even "10s of millions of illegals" in the whole country. Illegal immigrants in the US peaked in 2007 at 12 million, dropped to 11 million in 2011 and have been on a downward trend since then. California has about 2.5 million. It is not ridiculous to assert that there are essentially no illegal immigrant voters; at worst there may be a handful out of the 10s of millions of voters, either way it is of no significance to election outcomes.

      http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/02/map_illegal_immigrant_population_by_state.html

      Btw Maj, California is a liberal and solid blue state electorally-speaking (and culturally as well). It is the most populous and important state in the country. California is the 8th largest economy in the world and likely to move to up to 6th or even 5th soon. Additionally California has an increasingly vibrant ballot measure system that pulls the state more liberal every election. Trump has no sway in California; however, I do worry about the rest of the country.

      CA GSP is $2.5 trillion, here is the world gdp chart:

      http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies_gdp/index.html

      Delete
    4. Hello, I am Theresa Williams After being in relationship with Anderson for years, he broke up with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back but I am the type that never believed in spell, I had no choice than to try it, I mailed the spell caster, and he told me there was no problem that everything will be okay before three days, that my ex will return to me before three days, he cast the spell and surprisingly in the second day, it was around 4pm. My ex called me, I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that happened that he wanted me to return to him, that he loves me so much. I was so happy and went to him that was how we started living together happily again. Since then, I have made promise that anybody I know that have a relationship problem, I would be of help to such person by referring him or her to the only real and powerful spell caster who helped me with my own problem. email: drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com you can email him if you need his assistance in your relationship or any other Case.

      1) Love Spells
      2) Lost Love Spells
      3) Divorce Spells
      4) Marriage Spells
      5) Binding Spell.
      6) Breakup Spells
      7) Banish a past Lover
      8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
      9) want to satisfy your lover
      Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
      through drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com

      Delete
  2. Thinking liberals don't take MSNBC very seriously, or CNN.
    Most know that the coverage is superficial at best, misleading at the worst.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree about the quality of coverage, I saw an interview with Vincente Fox on MSNBC today, Fox was making good points, the interviewer was terrible. She basically ignored his points, playing the role essentially of a Trump supporter, and then cut him off to go to some nonsense live report.

      Delete
  3. "...routinely unclear, bordering on incoherent."

    A beautiful phrase. I'm going to write Congress and demand that it be made the new national motto.

    ReplyDelete
  4. cottage, eggs, and milk. Protein is the constructing block of lean muscle tissues so that you're off to a great start in case you're adding plenty of protein to the food plan. For more ==== >>>>>> http://testoupmaxfacts.com/ultimate-testo-explosion/

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi everyone!!!

    I'm so excited share this testimony here about how i got my ex husband back after a break up. I'm Clara 28 yr old from USA, Am a woman who love and cherish my husband more than any other thing you can imagine on earth continent. My husband was so lovely and caring after 3 years of marriage he was seriously ill and the doctor confirm and said he has a kidney infection that he needed a kidney donor, that was how I start searching for who can help, doctor has given me a periodic hour that he will live just 24 hours left, that was how I ask the doctor if I can be of help to my husband that was how he carried out the text, the confirming was successful, I was now having this taught that since 3 years now we got married I have not be able to get pregnant can I be able to get bring again? That was the question I ask the doctor, he never answer his response was did you want to lost your husband? I immediately reply no I can't afford to lose him. After the operation my husband came back to live and was healthy I was also OK with the instruction given to me by the doctor, after 3 months my husband came home with another lady telling me, that is our new wife that will give us kids and take care of us, that was how I was confused and started crying all day, that was how my husband ran away with his new wife cleanable. Since then I was confuse don't know what to do that was how I went back to the doctor and tell him everything, he told me that, this is not just an ordinary it must be a spiritual problem that was how he gave me this Email: Ahmedutimate@gmail.com that I should tell he all my problem that he can help that was how i contacted he and I do as instructed. After 28 hours and I have done what he ask me to do, my husband start searching for me and went back to the doctor, that was how we well settle he also told me not to worry that I will get pregnant, this month making it the fifth Month I contacted he am now 3 months pregnant. These great spell cater is a great man,
    if you have any kind of problem you can contact him here on his
    Email: Ahmedutimate@gmail.com or call him +2348160153829
    Save Your Crumbling Relationship
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/130/104/350/

    ReplyDelete
  6. Wait a second, did you claim Kayleigh MacInany is articulate? Now I am having second thoughts about your judgement

    ReplyDelete
  7. I promise to share this testimony all over the world once my husband return back to me, and today with all due respect I want to say a big thank you KING PESO for bringing joy and happiness to my relationship and my children. I want to inform you all that there is a spell caster that is real and genuine. After being in relationship with Wilson for seven years, he broke up with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. A day came i came across one particular testimony, it was about a woman called Sarah Jame ,she testified about how he brought back her husband back in less than 24hrs, and at the end of her testimony she dropped KING PESO e-mail address. After reading all these,I decided to give him a try. I contacted him via email and explained my problem to him. and he give me some instruction i follow it within 48hrs, my husband came back to me Am so happy now that KING PESO, help me bring my life back to me. Thanks so much... his email: pesokingspellcaster@gmail.com
    JANE EMMA

    ReplyDelete
  8. good once and truth
    very great research
    keep posting
    Top Pega training in hyderabad

    ReplyDelete