WEDNESDAY, MARCH 15, 2017
It's been a long time coming: We've been waiting a very long time to see a career writer say this.
The greatest fault lies with Maddow's owners, of course. Additional fault lies with the silence from the career liberal world, from the people who have been playing their own "cynical" career games for the past 25 years.
We can't believe that someone has finally said something like this. If liberals had spoken up decades ago about this flailing person's predecessors, there would be no President Trump.
We "liberals" have reaped what we've sown.
"We liberals"??? Please stop lying Bob. You're not a liberal. You're an old southern conservative white guy.
ReplyDeleteWe saw how stupid Maddow thinks her viewers are. Her view of them has been influenced by watching them lap up her crazy conspiracy theories about Russia collusion. She will have her low regard confirmed when we see the ratings for last night's gong show.
ReplyDeleteTroll harder,comrade.
DeleteBob Somerby, it should be obvious to anyone long, long ago, simply cannot speak responsibility to anything involving Rachel Maddow. He seethes with a strange hatred for the woman, which seems the flip side of his eagerness to excuse the worst bully boys of the right. Bob is an old fashioned guy in many ways, is this simply bigotry directed at a gay woman? In a world where "O"Reilly gets a pass," it's a more than fair question.
ReplyDeleteThe critic's knee jerk reaction to the broadcast is simplistic on a lot of levels, but that deals with issues that wouldn't interest Bob. Life under Trump, it again seems likely, is very satisfying to Bob on many levels.
I don't think you need to look for ulterior motives when there is so much to criticize about Maddow.
DeleteI think the criticism is valid and not due to bigotry.
DeleteNonsense. Bob is exercising a tiresome, traditional, and rather galling bigotry. He needs to be called out. The defense of his double standard, that we all know Fox is bad anyway, is trite, illogical, and flatly ridiculous.
DeleteIt makes perfect sense to me.
DeleteBut you don't understand basic logic and fair play, and are a little nuts. You really want the right to win, but keep your conscience clean by playing liberal.
DeleteWhy, by the by, do you think Bob had no problem critiquing the right when they were going after his college buddy?
DeleteI don't agree with you at all. I think she can and should be criticized for her performance. There's some sort of logical fairness doctrine that says a criticism of her must be balanced with a criticism of someone else. Tell me more about that "logic". ;)
DeleteIf you are critiquing the media with the notion of Socratic Truth as your goal, and you exempt the larger, more powerful aspect of the media from reveiw, then sensible people must note you are not honestly pursuing your goal. Somerby used to say, correctly, "it isn't just Fox News." But he did not excuse Fox News, or anyone else pimping false information. That was when this blog was not full of shit.
DeleteI don't think you've thought it through pal. Why don't you try a little harder?
DeleteOh great one, see if you can explain it without sounding foolish...
DeleteGreg, you're mistaken if you think Somerby's critique of Gore's 2000 presidential run was focused on right-leaning media. His relentless criticism of the media's handling of Gore has been overwhelming aimed at supposedly "liberal" outlets, commentators, columnists, etc. who he has accused of buying into (and amplifying) memes started by Gore's detractors, criticizing Gore on trivial and superficial matters (attire, presentation style) while ignoring or misstating his substantive policy positions, and most of all, staying silent while Gore's candidacy was destroyed by vicious character assassination and outright lies.
DeleteIn fact, Somerby's primary focus for the nearly 20 years he's been writing the Howler has been a critique of left media, from the left.
It's true that over the years, Somerby has been extremely critical of a number of ostensibly liberal women in the media. In addition to Maddow, that list includes Joan Walsh, Gail Collins, Maureen Dowd, and Margaret Carlson. But he's been equally brutal in his treatment of male figures such as Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, Lawrence O'Donnell, and Tim Russert (among many others).
When Maddow was fairly new to television, back in 2008, Somerby's take on her was not nearly as one-sided as it's been more recently. Some examples:
1/10/2008 "Three large cheers for Rachel Maddow"
8/7/2008 "In our view, Maddow does excellent work"
12/12/2008 "Let’s start by listing at least three things Rachel Maddow does exceptionally well. She books superlative guests for her program—the best selection of guests on cable. When she stops her incessant joking (perhaps it’s a matter of taste), she interviews those guests exceptionally well. And when she reins in her joking, she knows how to explain news topics better than anyone else on the air."
3/27/2009 "Rachel Maddow offered a superlative, deeply informative segment on Wednesday evening’s program"
Suggesting that his current take on her stems from bigotry is just not supported by any objective reading of his work.
Calling him a bigot is not only not supported by objective rreadings, it's also not supported by logic. And obviously it's extremely lazy reasoning and ad hominem. And further, it supports Bob's thesis that we liberals only know how to drop 'R' and 'B' bombs.
Delete2:51, you ignore a critical point I took pains to make, if you are going to respond you might try to do it honestly. BOB USED TO INCLUDE THE RIGHT IN HIS CRITIQUES. Fox News and others. The notion that anyone would be given a "pass" was not included in his original "socratic" approach. So yes, the line was "It isn't JUST Fox News" was correct. The policy wasn't the present "FOX NEWS GETS A PASS!" And of course there is no reason it should be; it's stupid. Sorry, the fact that he has on occasion pointed out good work from Maddow only underscores his longstanding dementia on the subject, which has often featured over the top name calling. He not only critiques Maddow, by the by, he generally disparages anyone who likes her. (Might these be people who could be forgiven for finding a flawed champion, having to deal with a news environment that pummels them everyday, a news environment Somersby "gives a pass" to daily? At the same time, Bob can't cry enough about how hard liberals are on the Fox audience types......
DeleteThat makes no sense at all Greg. She can be criticized on her on merits alone at any time with any frequency.
Delete2:51 here. It's been more than a decade since Somerby has spilled much ink critiquing right media like Fox. Perhaps he decided that Media Matters (and many others) were covering that landscape well enough. But given his perspective, it's more likely that he decided that with friends like many in the so-called liberal media, it hardly mattered what right-leaning media was doing.
DeleteI cited his early praise for Maddow not to show that he occasionally said approving things about her, but to show that he was initially impressed by her work. He even suggested her as host for Meet the Press after Tim Russert's death. Somerby soured on her when it became clear that she'd sold out like many of the millionaire pundits he critiques, praising people like Chris Matthews (who she'd once had the guts to call out), wasting valuable air time on trivia and gotcha politics, and failing to substantively cover issues of critical importance to the left such as inequality, education, health care, and the environment. I believe that Maddow gets so much attention from Somerby because she's the biggest star on the most widely watched cable news channel with left-leaning programming, and he sees what her show has become as an enormous lost opportunity.
But even if Somerby does suffer from Maddow Derangement Syndrome, that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to be roundly and regularly criticized. And I see no evidence that his negative take on her stems in any way from the fact that she's a gay woman.
Bottom line, however, is that none of us know what drives or motivates Somerby. He doesn't engage with his readers and probably pays no attention to these comments (the original Howler site didn't even have a comment facility). One thing is certain--he doesn't do it for the money.
For anyone with an interest in a more organized (and effective) approach to criticism of liberal and mainstream media from a left perspective, I highly recommend the media watchdog group FAIR (www.fair.org). They deserve monetary support, but you can sign up for their email updates on their home page without contributing. Great writing and analysis by Janine Jackson, Jim Naureckus, Adam Johnson, and others.
BTW, Greg, I rarely post here (once or twice a year, perhaps). I probably won't comment further if you respond, so you can have the last word, if you wish (or even seen this).
Typo--"see this" not "seen this".
DeleteIt must be nice for Bob to see some mainstream media finally catching up with him on the subject of Maddow.
ReplyDeleteSorry Dave, but this critic is the way minority opinion among people on the left, and a rather typical "balance" shot from Slate. As you scumbags on the right well know, the absolute truth of an accusation is mostly secondary, the drip drip drip of a scandal is what is most likely to do the damage. So while many on the left had this critic's reaction at first, the many, many good questions this revelation raises only helps the cause. And no, we don't forget forget the tidal wave of bad that is the rest of Trump when we notice he is probably bought and paid for by Russian Gangsters.
DeleteGreg (and others)-- What will make you stop believing improper Trump/Russian collusion? The Obama Admin investigated for months and found no evidence. I sure don't think the Trump Admin will find evidence of improper collusion. Will you continue to believe the allegations, unde the theory that they might be true, even though no evidence was ever found?
DeleteTwo words, my friend: Tax Returns. And I don't mean a leaked two pages. Who do you think, by the way, bailed Don out after the banks had had enough of his money losing ways?
DeleteHuh? Do you think the Russians collaborated illegally AND paid money to Trump for the privilege AND Trump put this payment into his income tax return? Or, do you think Trump paid the Russians for their illegal help AND Trump took a tax deduction for this payment?
DeleteBoth of these scenarios look very unlikely to me. Am I missing something, Greg? How do you think Trump's tax return could confirm or deny illegal collusion with the Russians?
One way to find out, let's take a look at what ever President in modern history has had no problem sharing. He lost 9 billion in Atlantic City. How did he keep going, Trump Steaks? Look my conservative friend, when a pathological liar won't show you his paper work, it is a moral responsibility to assume the worst. I guess he had the mob chanting "lock her up" again tonight. Where are you going to go to get your shame back?
DeleteGreg's shrewd plan:
Delete...the drip drip drip of a scandal is what is most likely to do the damage.
And that damage will do what exactly, get us Mike Pence or Cory Booker? So in the meantime then the plan is for useful movement politics to remain on a back burner. This whole oligarchy thing just gets easier and easier to maintain.
Am I missing something, Greg?
DeleteYes, intellectual honesty, integrity, morals and consistent principles, and shame. Yes, shame is definitely out.
Here's the thing, Greg. DinC is explaining to you the new state of affairs in this benighted nation of ours - transparency of elected officials is no longer of any concern to hypocrites like DinC. You want to hide your tax returns while lying about the reason for doing so? Fine with DinC. That's AOK. You want to lie about placing your business in a blind trust? DinC just shrugs, what's the problem?
You want to turn your golf resort business in Palm Beach into the "Southern White House" raking in a fortune almost every weekend now? DinC is cool with that also.
As I said, anything goes now. With one exception, don't be married to a former president who generated a wildly successful global charity providing AIDS relief to impoverished countries. That really gets DinC's panties in a bunch. If you want to have a Charitable Foundation, do it the right republican and turn it into your slush fund for bribing public officials.
CMike, with help from brave new world nincompoop "progressives" like you, we have the cancer of Trump before us. We must cut it out. Yes, even Pence would be, for a time, preferable.
DeleteKeep huffing and puffing, Greg.
Deletemm - I'm concerned about transparancy in what the government does, not so much about a politician's personal life. Not knowing what was in the ACA before it was enacted concerned me more than Donald Trump's income tax form or Bill Clinton's blow jobs.
DeleteYou keep lying David. The ACA was debated for a year with nearly a hundred GOP amendments debated and voted on also. The President lead town halls all over the country explaining the bill with representatives from the GOP present including Paul Ryan. If you didn't know what was in it that's your fault. But I again notice you weren't concerned about knowing every last detail of pussygrabber's plan to replace ACA after he repealed it. It was going to cost less, reduce premiums for everyone, provide better health benefits and just generally be awesome. And you voted for the flimflam man's pig in a poke, because You are a hypocrite with a double standard.
DeleteSecond point: If you watched Rachel Maddow explaining why it is important to know what is in pussygrabber's tax returns you wouldn't make such a dishonest ass of yourself by pretending to draw a distinction between what the government does and pussygrabber's personal life. There's a reason why person's in pussygrabber's cabinet are being forced to divest and put their portfolio in blind trusts. What do you suppose that is? Why have some withdrawn from consideration because they didn't want to deal with it? What is your president special?
Why did the GOP spend 7 years investigating a failed real estate investment in which President Clinton lost money 15 years before he was elected President? Wasn't that personal?
For all intents and purposes, the Clinton Foundation was former President Clinton's personal affairs, yet the GOP forced Hillary to sign a Memorandum of Understanding before being confirmed as SoS. Why was that DinC?
Face it, you are a fucking hypocrite.
Stephen Colbert has mocked Ms. Maddow....even wearing her signature outfit.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rTWxJepO8
I hear you're next.
DeleteI would not say Maddow is beyond mocking or critical review. But She is Somerby's obsession, one which long ago became ugly.
DeleteGreg, thanks for your input. It's crazy, right? Just wondering, on what logic do you base you obsession claim? How do we know what qualifies as obsession using logic?
DeleteI would base it on the logic of overwhelming evidence. Hit the archives sometime. Bob, for instance, is a guy who throws around MLK as an example of desirable conduct. Yet in Maddow's case he blows not only her bad work out of proportion (and it can be pretty bad) but seizes on pedestrian broadcasts to blow a gasket. Constant derogatory name calling. Maddow wrote a fairly good book on the neglected topic of Military Spending, we don't know to this day if he has read it. (Bob, oddly, never comments on the way the Press covers this critical topic, but still). All the while in a context where, strangely, the daily abuses of right press "get a pass!" So really, are you a Daily Howler reader who DENIES Bob is obsessed with Maddow? Doesn't pass half a smell test. Rachel Maddow is a product of our new age of infotainment. She has followed, in a sense, what Limbaugh, Shock Jocks, and other dubious characters have done, becoming a personality who injects herself into the news. It's tiresome, and frustrating how this stuff ropes in people. But it's not new, and as we know, even Murrow did pap profiles. Barbara Walters career is nothing but an extension of this. But to seize on Maddow as the sole guilty party in this and pound her endlessly is nothing BUT obession. Bill O"Reilly used to talk about his person life too, until he started beating the crap out of his wives and using the Fox staff as his dating agency.
DeleteYes, I deny that. And what you have written here has nothing to do with logic. (a systematic reasoning based on principles) Would you say you are obsessed with Bob's so called obsession? You criticize him a lot as he criticizes Maddow . You accused him of being an anti-lesbian. It's comical what you write and how you "reason". One thing is for sure, Bob will never stop and your thoughts have no bearing on past or future criticisms of her. Anyway, have a good one.
DeleteGreg is on a tear because Maddow, who appears to suffer from some kind of disorder, did something even her most gullible viewers recognized as an insult. Somerby's point was proven for anyone still having any doubt about this crazy woman. Colbert's impression of her self-impressed mania was remarkable.
DeleteIt is great to see the mainstream catching up with what Somberby has been pointing out all along, Maddow is a totally dick.
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