The struggle to keep claims alive: Suppose your third- or fourth-grade child was attending a public school whose demographics looked like this:
Demographics of Public School A:Suppose your neighborhood school looked like that. Would it even enter your head that your child had been forced to attend a "segregated school?"
White kids: 35 percent
Black kids: 25 percent
Hispanic kids: 25 percent
Asian-American kids: 10 percent
Others: 5 percent
In recent years, we attended schoolwide spelling bees, on two occasions, in a school whose demographics resembled those of Public School A. We didn't think we were in a segregated school. Given what we saw going on in that school, we thought we'd died and gone to heaven.
Imagine something else. Imagine that someone waved a magic wand and created a nationwide regime in which, to borrow from Garrison Keillor, the public schools were all exactly average.
According to the NCES, your child's school would now look like this:
Demographics of Public School B:Suppose you were the parent of a black son or daughter. Would your child be better off in Public School B? How much better off?
White kids: 48.1 percent
Black kids: 15.8 percent
Hispanic kids: 26.8 percent
Asian-American kids: 5.5 percent
Others: 3.8 percent
Also this: Would your child be better off after the school creates "gifted" or "accelerated" programs, likely tilting the demographic blend within specific classrooms?
If your child would be better off in Public School B, we'll also ask you this. Would you be inclined to say that Public School A was a segregated school, while Public School B was not? Those are the findings which would result from the academic regime we considered in yesterday's post.
Would that thought ever have entered your head?
The demographics of Public School B exaclt match the demographics of the nationwide public school population as of September 2017. If someone waved a magic wand, we could have a nation of schools where, in terms of demographics, the schools were all exactly alike.
In the real world, this would never be possible, due to nationwide residential patterns. That said, we're still asking you to ponder the overpowering liberal academic desire to outfit ourselves with the ability to complain, in highly dramatic ways, about the number of kids attending "segregated schools."
Would you apply that badly fraught term to a school like Public School A? When we visited a similar school, we thought we'd died and gone to heaven.
Did we simply fail to see that it was still 1955 in that school? Also, what makes us liberals long to retain our most eye-catching claims?
Another segregated school: Consider a possible Public School C. Its demographics look like this:
Demographics of Public School C:That's a "segregated school" too! Would that thought have entered your head, but for The Atlantic?
White kids: 33.3 percent
Black kids: 33.3 percent
Hispanic kids: 33.3 percent
We very much need to talk about the quality of our public schools. On the few occasions when we do, do we need to talk like that?
For people inclined to think in jokes: Try to work with something like this:
In the old days, it was George Wallace who said, "Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." Now it's the year 2018, and the people who say that are Us!
I am glad to see Bob keeping this issue alive. Some commenters yesterday said it was OK to re-define the term "segregated" as "less than 40% white", as long as the article explained the new definition. I disagree because
ReplyDelete-- the new, arbitrary definition is very much different from the real definition. Nobody would guess how the term was being used without being specifically told.
-- the claim will be repeated without attaching the new definition, thus misleading people
-- the term "segregated" is a charged word
-- focus on the word "segregated" encourages a wrong diagnosis of how to improve various schools.
Somerby still has not linked to the article that he criticized, after admitting he hadn't even read the whole thing. For starters, that's intellectually dishonest.
DeleteIt's easy to criticize the work of others if you don't really examine their work, like not reading their entire article, or mocking the entire academic effort of people like Stancil.
And it's also unfair, I think, to categorize the work as "highly dramatic" complaining, when that is not what Stancil or others are doing when they use the term "segregation." His article, whether you ultimately agree or disagree with it, is not melodramatic, nor is it trying to inflame passions. Somerby is the one doing that.
I despise the fact that Somerby wants to try to discredit people like Stancil, whose main goal is to examine schools, identify problems, and offer possible solutions. The discussion in Stancil's article are mainly concerned with outcomes, and touch on not just race, but also poverty.
Somerby's obsession with a word ("segregation") is ridiculous. It is some form of political correctness.
I agree on one point, and disagree on another. Bob should have linked to the article in question, I agree with that. I assume you’re the one who linked to the it, and I did check it out.
DeleteFor that reason, I disagree with your assessment of Bob’s use, and criticism of, the term “segregation” in Stancil’s essay. Because of our very real and very recent history of actual forced segregation, Stancil’s use of the term seems to me irresponsible, despite his observations about poverty. “Segregation” today is simply not the same as it used to be, thanks to the actual blood that was shed that resulted in the actual desegregation of our public schools. Modern “segregation” if one must use that term, is now linked to both poverty and changing demographics. But the term itself is fraught with intimations of a very recent past that should not be confused with the present.
Leroy
Did you read the article, Leroy?
DeleteYour comment doesn't reflect that you did.
"“Segregation” today is simply not the same as it used to be, thanks to the actual blood that was shed that resulted in the actual desegregation of our public schools."
DeleteAll well and fine. But if you think progress is settled, and there won't be setbacks to progress, you are vastly under-estimating modern Conservativism.
You don't only have to fight for progress, you have to fight to keep your gains.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete9:56 Which "article?"
Delete11:50
Delete“All well and fine. But if you think progress is settled, and there won't be setbacks to progress, you are vastly under-estimating modern Conservativism.”
Nice move, completely move the goalposts. Stay on point, or I might sic Greg on you.
Leroy
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It doesn't matter if Somerby went to 6900 spelling bees. That doesn't make him an expert on the public schools. From his posts about education, it seems he knows very little about them.
ReplyDeletePlease expound upon your own expertise. BTW, it should have been written 6,900. Why do you even come to this site?
DeleteLeroy
Did anyone besides me, including school guru Somerby, actually read the goddamn article that Somerby failed to link to yesterday? Perhaps we can have a side discussion about what it actually said, cause Somerby isn't going to.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIt's confusingly written in parts and the author, demonstrating his good standing as a member of the zombie wing of the Democratic party, works himself into a pretzel arguing for the priority of identity politics as ever the driving force that creates or maintains disadvantage wherever it is found in society rather than recognize that in 21st century America unfairness is largely a class based phenomenon. (Or, as Walter Benn Michaels explains it, "The poor don't want your respect [or expressions of your concern bleeding heart liberal], they want your money." Duh.)
DeleteBut by all means 6:39 PM, do have a go at finally saying something useful about this article rather than wasting the time of every Howler comment section reader by continuing to whine and whine about what somebody else did or didn't say about it.
So hostile CMike!
DeleteNo F bombs though, so I don't think I'll be drafted by The Resistance.
DeleteCMike, we don't want you, so fuck off.
DeleteRight on cue.
DeleteCMike please, please, please ignore voter suppression. It's makes it more difficult for others to dismiss you as clueless.
DeleteI'm here for you, buddy.
Let's put white males, like CMike, on the lowest rung of society, and we'll see if white males still think identity politics is a waste of time.
DeleteThe few times we treat everyone as well as we treat white males, white males whine about "losing our rights."
"I don't think I'll be drafted by The Resistance."
DeleteDon't flatter yourself - complaining that Stancil is "confusing" while citing a world-class casuistry purveyor (WBM) with approval.
Michaels makes an entirely straight forward argument here 3:16 AM [LINK] [LINK].
DeleteI used to like Michaels, but then I realized that he's just naive. The whole point of liberal ideology is to preserve the class system through misdirection, distraction, and confusion.
DeleteNot enough black lesbian women among the oppressors! Not enough white men among the oppressed!
If one needs Michaels to explain the absurdity of it, then one is already a brainless zombie.
Conservatives believe Equality of all = black lesbian woman oppressors.
DeleteThis is why we can't have nice things.
Mao, Michaels' explicit point is what you're claiming as your own point. Sheesh.
Delete9:42 PM,
DeleteRepublicans don't throw people off the voter roles because of their race or ethnicity, per se. They pick names to expunge that are most likely to be those of blacks and Hispanics because they belong to members of readily identifiable groups of people who vote Democratic. If, all of a sudden, Hispanics started voting net plus Republican they would no longer be targeted.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete1:38 AM,
DeleteKeep making your politics all about letting everyone know how woke you, yourself, are- that and a dollar plus tax will get someone in the underclass a small cup of coffee at McDonald's.
I read his book about ten years ago. As I recall, it was written from the point of view of a disgruntled liberal.
DeleteThere's a big difference between his belief that liberal identity-mania is a mere flaw - and my assertion that it's the main, deliberate feature of their deceptive ideology...
Here's the link https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/03/school-segregation-is-not-a-myth/555614/
ReplyDeleteIt confirms the last point in my earlier comment. The article assumes that "segregation", however defined, is a major problem with American education. The article goes on to present muddled and boring semantic discussion. It purports to address the problems of American schools, but without addressing how the schools work or what the actual educational problems and opportunities are.
BTW in Bob's defense, one didn't need to read the entire aritcle. The headline that Bob quoted shows the misuse of the word "segregation". Suppose the headline, more accurately read,
Schools with less than 40% white students are Not a Myth
Skeptics claim that concerns over Schools with less than 40% white students are false alarms—but they’re missing the full picture.
That headline would be ludicrous. Misusing the word "segregated" is a way to garner undeserved interest in the article.
Schools were 100% segregated prior to 1954. The goal of the Brown decision was to integrate. How do we measure the integration of schools scientifically? You start by defining what a "segregated" school is. One way to do that is to define a threshold or percentage. Then you can get a sense of the process over time. This is a purely scientific approach and has nothing to do with inflaming passions. Nor is it an attempt to discredit school A or B in Somerby's example.
DeleteBut Somerby takes offense at the whole enterprise because he sees it as some sort of propaganda exercise. He dismisses an entire line of questioning because of his own prejudices and his own anti-intellectual mindset.
One did need to read the entire article to at least understand the writer's intent in using the term whether or not you disagree with such use, but your concern trolling is duly noted.
DeleteThis is why people define their terms when talking about a technical subject. Somerby insists on using a definition that is not that of the authors of the paper or the article based on it. He ignores their definition and superimposes his own. That is dirty pool. He thereby insists on imposing past problems on the present, as if the past can never be escaped. I don't see the sense in that either.
ReplyDeleteAs a mathematics person, I'm very familiar with assigning a definition to a word. Various fields of Mathematics assign specific, special meanings to words like "regular", "normal", "rational", "irrational", etc.
DeleteHowever, it's bad usage when the assigned meaning deviates too far from the normal meaning. Suppose I did a study and assigned the word "racist" to mean "critic of Trump". I think you can see how that would lead to misunderstandings and unfairness.
David, I think the mathematical term “real number” is pretty stupid. It should be something like “measuring number”.
DeleteWho determines the "normal meaning" and the scope of deviation? You? Because you are a mathematics person?
DeleteBWAHAHAHAHAHA!
'As a mathematics person..."
DeleteBullshit! Conservatives know nothing about math or economics.
The pretense of people like Somerby and DinC that they give a shit about black children is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteThe gutless worms won't even be true to themselves.
They are happy that Trayvon Martin is dead.
ReplyDeleteTrump is a liar and a thief.
ReplyDeleteWell, Bob, this is one example of mind-boggling liberal goebbelsian lies, but this one is relatively inconsequential. No one is paying attention to your tribe's race-mongering anymore.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should ignore this one and focus on your tribe's other, far more dangerous maniacal lies instead.
Race-mongering never works. Unless you count Trump's race-mongering, which led him to the White House. But you can't count that, because it hurts the fee-fees of Republicans.
DeleteSo, race-mongering never works.
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