WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2022
"Ghost flights" occasion a cheer: "Back out of all this now too much for us?"
That's the way Robert Frost began his puzzling poem, Directive. For what it's worth, the poem appeared in 1946!
Frost might have been speaking about the world of public discourse in which we now live—a world of discourse largely created by the "democratization of media."
News consumers no longer are restricted to a choice between Walter Cronkite and David Brinkley, neither of whom was insane. We now suffer beneath a Babel of "news" and "information" outlets—a profit-based Babel in which the dissembling and misinformation seem to be virtually endless.
Everyone and his crazy next-door neighbor runs his own "news outlet" now. This lets the misinformation flow—and if you doubt that, please consider what Governor DeSantis just said.
We start with a thrilling "news report" from the Fox News Channel. The report was posted yesterday afternoon. This morning, the report appears beneath this thrilling headline:
DeSantis rips into outrage over Martha's Vineyard flights: 'I didn't hear a peep' about Biden flights
DeSantis was busy deceiving the people again! For the record, here's the way Timothy Nerozzi's "news report" starts:
NEROZZI (9/20/22): Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis dismissed criticism of him flying migrants to Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts, claiming his political opponents have ignored similar initiatives from the White House.
DeSantis spoke at an event in Florida Tuesday during which he took questions from the press.
DeSantis was asked by a reporter to comment on harsh criticism from across the aisle accusing him of "human trafficking" for flying approximately 50 migrants to Martha's Vineyard, a famous stronghold of wealthy Democrats.
"So when Biden is flying these people all over the fruited plain in the middle of the night, I didn't hear a peep out of those people," DeSantis told the crowd Tuesday...
DeSantis was attacking the hypocrisy of the libs. In the governor's framing, the libs have savagely criticized him for flying people to the Vineyard—but they haven't said a word when Biden has (apparently) done (something like) the same thing.
What was DeSantis talking about? If you watch Fox, you surely know. If you watch MSNBC, you most likely don't.
If you watch the tape of the DeSantis event, you can hear roar of the crowd when he makes this statement. They think they know what DeSantis is talking about, and Fox News is cheering them on.
People who watch Fox News will recognize the DeSantis reference. He was referring to the famous "ghost flights" which have formed a key part of the channel's novelizations about immigration over perhaps the past year.
President Biden's fiendish "ghost flights" have long played a starring role at Fox. If you're watching MSNBC, you don't hear a word about this. Instead, you hear hours of our own tribe's favorite novels, almost all of which involve some version of Trump Trump Racist Trump Jail.
That said, what are the "ghost flights" to which we refer? In what way was DeSantis still dissembling, even this late in the game, as the crowd cheered him on?
Traditional news sites have made scattered attempts to fact-check the endless claims about the fiendish "ghost flights." Below, we offer you the links with which you can straighten this matter out on your own:
The Washington Post: February 2, 2022
Claims of ‘ghost flights’ of ‘illegal immigrants’ don’t add up
NPR: June 20, 2022
'Ghost flights' are the latest GOP effort to weaponize immigration ahead of midterms
The New York Times: June 24, 2022
‘Ghost Flights’? The Facts Behind Transporting Migrant Children
PolitiFact: September 6, 2022
A surprising number of Americans believe these false claims about immigrants. Here are the facts
For our money, much of that report by PolitiFact was strikingly incompetent. Also, we don't know why PolitiFact would find it "surprising" when people believe all sorts of claims which they hear again and again.
That said, PolitiFact did supply the basics about the so-called "ghost flights." It did so in its final section, "The government is not secretly flying immigrants around the country."
As you can see, it can't be said that mainstream outlets have never fact-checked this matter. That said, the fact-checks have been occasional, and have been widely ignored. The bogus claims about "ghost flights" continue day after day on Fox, but also at scattershot press events.
Yesterday, DeSantis was playing the "ghost flight" card for a group of cheering minions. On MSNBC, our tribunes talked and talked, then talked and talked, about Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Prison Jail.
(Shortly after 11 P.M., Stephanie Ruhle said we'd "get smarter" with her "all-star panel." We get told, all through the day, that these people are all our "friends.")
On these dueling cable channels, Storyline is in the saddle and riding humankind pretty much all the way down. Red tribals receive their narrative-affirming soap operas from the Fox News Channel. We get ours from our own cable news stars.
Do not deceive yourself into thinking that one of these profit-based outlets is playing it straight. Tomorrow, we'll plan to show you what was said on Morning Joe this morning.
The analysts screamed and tore at their hair. "Back out of all this now too much for us," we heard a voice say in our heads!
Tomorrow: Morning Joe sounds like Newt Gingrich!
ReplyDelete"On these dueling cable channels, Storyline is in the saddle..."
Oh dear. To begin with, there are no "dueling cable channels", dear Bob. Compared to your tribe's channels, FoxNews is the model of objectivity.
And second, dear Bob, this time, with this Martha's Vineyard affair, your tribe's storyline is a total brainfart. More than usual (if that's even possible).
This time, your tribe's goebbelsian dembottery will not convince a single normal humyn being.
Dembots are walking in circles with springs popping out of their heads, muttering "stunt" and "deathsantis"
DeleteAt least we aren't harming immigrants by dumping them on islands or in people's front yards.
Delete
DeleteSurely the unfortunate immigrants (who you, dear dembot, aren't harming by dumping them into military bases) have a choice of other, better countries to immigrate to.
There are almost 200 countries on this planet, and, presumably, most of them are free of systemic WHITE SUPREMACY.
Classic Right-wing bigotry by DeSantis.
DeleteImmigrants, like trans kids, don’t have any political power, so Republicans, of course, rush to punch down on them.
DeSantis had no choice. He didn’t want to be called a RINO for not punching down on the marginalized.
DeleteThis country is a fascist white supremacist hellhole if you ask a Democrat. Migrants of color are best off anywhere else.
DeleteThe migrants who arrived at Martha's Vineyard thought they had died and gone to heaven when they saw the brochures and the flowery words about sanctuary and acceptance. All those beautifully appointed mansions, many empty, with multiple cozy rooms, owned by generous and selfless Democrats, awaiting them.
DeleteThey were in for a rude awakening when they realized they were always merely props for Democrat virtue signaling smugness and would be cleansed within one day.
Ha ha,
DeletePretty funny, for a person who wants to force 10-year olds to carry their rapists babies.
Leave it to Ron DeSantis to be the most “economically anxious” Governor.
DeleteWhen is DeSantis going to bus police officers North for being “illegals”?
Delete1:29,
DeleteDon’t be silly. Republicans hate the “immigrant” part of “illegal immigrants”. Not the “illegal” part.
If you’re not asking Ron DeSantis to go fuck himself with a rusty saw, you’re doing it wrong.
DeleteIn DeSantis’ defense, he had to traffick those immigrants due to the “Every Right-wing accusation is really a confession” dictum.
Delete"President Biden's fiendish "ghost flights" have long played a starring role at Fox. If you're watching MSNBC, you don't hear a word about this. "
ReplyDeleteWhy should MSNBC report news that isn't true, just so that its viewers are informed about the disinformation presented by Fox news? MSNBC exists to present actual news. It is not a Fox debunking site, nor a media-watch site. Somerby could perform a service by debunking Fox daily, but he too chooses not to, although for some reason he seems to think MSNBC should be doing that, else blue tribe viewers will be ignorant of the conspiracy theories of the right.
Once again, Somerby adopts a tone of grievance but makes complaints against mainstream media that just make no sense at all.
Is a major news outlet presenting disinformation not actual news?
DeleteNot any more. Is Fox a major news outlet, or is it a propaganda network? If the NY Times were presenting disinformation, that might be actual news. Note that CNN's shift to the right has been heavily reported by other cable stations. Maybe there is just nothing new about disinformation on Fox news.
DeleteThe most watched cable news channel being a propaganda network is not news? Or is it too hot for other networks to touch because they are a "profit-based outlet not playing it straight" either?
DeleteNo, it is not news in the sense that it has been happening for over a decade now. If they were to stop doing it, that would be news.
DeleteYour thesis that no one accuses Fox of disinformation because of profit is ridiculous given that various individuals on the other cable news channels do malign Fox, its hosts and its reporting, and given that they have also reported on CNN's changes. Speculation is fun, but you need to test your idea against reality.
In what way is MSNBC not "playing it straight"?
And then there is the problem that if you report what Fox is saying about a specific conspiracy, such as ghost flights, you give them additional airspace and you spread their disinformation further than it would reach if only Fox talked about it. That is the problem with Somerby's quotes of Carlson and now the ghost flights. More people will be exposed to the idea that Biden was flying immigrants around too, and that will hurt Biden and the Democrats right before the election. Is it a good idea to do that, given that the story itself is false? If MSNBC started reporting everything Fox made up, just to debunk it, it would give Fox two cable outlets for their fake news.
Note that Somerby did not explain what was wrong about the ghost flights. He said Politifact reported the story was false, but Somerby doesn't correct the misinformation by repeating what Politifact said about the story. AND he said Politifact was incompetent. So, Somerby has spread the ghost flight story and also undermined the folks saying that it is disinformation, giving Fox garbage an expanded audience on the left.
And some idiots here will believe there is something to it, and they may believe both sides are doing this stuff to immigrants, so why get excited when DeSantis does it? And that is how Somerby spreads right wing propaganda on a supposedly liberal site.
Meanwhile, there are NO Biden ghost flights and yes, there were DeSantis flights and Abbott flights and some from Arizona, shuttling immigrants to so-called blue cities, and Harris and Biden's front lawns, to own the libs. That part is true and it constitutes mistreatment of immigrants that I hope will be pursued against Republicans who think such stunts are funny.
MSNBC had nothing to do with what DeSantis did. They are not the problem here. Somerby is, since he thinks there is some equivalence between news on the left and "news" on the right.
I disagree that it is not news and that reporting the falsehood would reinforce and spread the falsehood. I recognize this is not an issue and liberal cable news will never go after conservative cable news directly in a meaningful way. I also disagree there is no equivalence between cable news.on the left and cable news on the right. In a way it's been proven in court with the two decisions re Maddow and Carlson both ruling they were not news and their viewers expect them to exaggerate and overstate the facts. MSNBC and Fox are both horrible corporate propaganda that deceives their viewers.
DeleteYou have the right to your opinion, but you haven't said anything that is evidence, an argument, or in any way convincing when you say MSNBC and Fox are equivalent. Neither has Somerby.
DeleteThe court rulings against the two hosts are equivalent. Both shows are not news and present opinions as of they were news to serve their audience's narratives.
DeleteNo, Carlson lies far more than Maddow.
DeleteThey are besties as well. They are the same animal. Media whores reading teleprompters with scripts written to weave narratives that serve the biases of their audiences and institutional corporate agendas. Viewers are the product. Both hosts deliver them to their customers -pharmaceutical companies etc
DeleteNo, they are not anything alike and they are certainly not friends in real life. For one thing, Carlson has a really annoying facial expression of whiny petulance, always, no matter what he is talking about. It helps him build that sense of grievance among his viewers, the idea that white men are being treated unfairly, no matter what has happened. In contrast, Maddow is cheerful and upbeat and pleasant, and she presents her arguments with facts, laid out in a logical manner that leads to her conclusions and predictions. She clarifies complicated situations. Somerby calls that a "pleasing narrative" but he intends to imply that she makes stuff up, when she largely organizes info that is widely available to anyone who looks for it.
DeleteIt is hard to call Maddow a media whore when she has written several important books on politics and foreign affairs, and she has a Ph.D. from Oxford University. She is qualified as an expert, not someone who reads from a teleprompter (not that there is anything wrong with using such a device). But she clearly knows her stuff. That is part of why Somerby resents her.
Pharmaceutical companies advertise on news shows because of the demographic who watches such shows -- old people. And those who are older are the ones with health issues. Young people get their news off the internet, not TV or cable.
Yep. And the supposed sins of not repeating the indecipherable NY Post
Deletereporting on Hunter Biden is a sad joke Bob won’t go near.
MSNBC DOES pander and report
with a selective prejudice, but sometimes
not to the left’s advantage.
If you have forgotten Chris Hays
starring into the camera and intonation
on Tara Reade “This story is NOT
going away!!” And then never
telling his audience why it did,
well, you shouldn’t. This was weeks
before we narrowly escaped
Trump II.
I hear ya.
DeleteLast month Maddow told Vanity Fair she bumped into Carlson recently and said: “It was really nice to see him.” . She's spoke in the interview about how talented Carlson was and how much she appreciated Roger Ailes helping her crawl to the top of the media whore game.
DeleteSociopath Rachel Maddow's interview about how much she admires Tucker Carlson's talent and her "friendship" with modern media's biggest scumbag Roger Ailes shows what a psycho media whore she is.
DeleteWas. Not is, was. But maybe she isn’t as much of a liberal as Somerby has always painted her. That would be a huge joke on Somerby. Not going to look up the interview to see what she actually said, because I don’t care.
DeleteI don’t care if Rachel Maddow is cordial
Deleteto people She disagrees with, even
a real lowlife like Carson.
Her bigger sin was going out of her
way to forgive Shep Smith for
running a bullshit story on the Clinton
foundation the week of the 2016
Election that may have put Trump
over the top( yes, you could say
that about a lot of things). Smith
apologized for the inaccurate
story but said his team was still
working on it. Big surprise: that’s
last we heard of it.
One should never forget,
whatever of value we might see
on MSNBC, this is the NBC
Corporation. They are not
heroes, they are not your
friends.
And here we see Somerby slander Politifact. First he says:
ReplyDelete"For our money, much of that report by PolitiFact was strikingly incompetent. "
He doesn't say what he found incompetent. He just maligns them vaguely. Then he says:
"That said, PolitiFact did supply the basics about the so-called "ghost flights." It did so in its final section, "The government is not secretly flying immigrants around the country."
As you can see, it can't be said that mainstream outlets have never fact-checked this matter. That said, the fact-checks have been occasional, and have been widely ignored. "
We are just supposed to take it on faith that Politifact did a bad job -- no evidence, no explanation, just Somerby's assertion. And apparently Politifact is responsible if their articles are ignored? How is that their fault?
Vague assaults on those who are trying to combat disinformation just don't cut it. Somerby has no basis for complaining about Politifact, and doing so does not rescue the disinformation on Fox News about those "ghost flights", much less DeSantis with his recent stunt. Somerby attempts distraction today, but it doesn't clear DeSantis or the right for their mistreatment of immigrants.
"We get told, all through the day, that these people are all our "friends."
ReplyDeleteAs if there is no such show as "Fox and Friends" over on the right.
MSNBC Special Report: Biden's Ghost Flights, an explosive story. Part 1: Myth or Reality? Myth! And now a word from our sponsor.
ReplyDeletePart 2: More information. Biden's Ghost Flights, myth or reality. Myth. And now a word from our sponsor.
Part 3: Final Expose. Franco is still dead. So maybe they're true! And now a word from our sponsor.
And here we have the ever-present false equivalency:
ReplyDelete"Red tribals receive their narrative-affirming soap operas from the Fox News Channel. We get ours from our own cable news stars."
Somerby describes a Fox News disinformation story about Biden's supposed ghost flights. He describes nothing on the left. But then he says we too have narrative-affirming soap operas. No need to actually describe any. It is sufficient for Somerby to accuse us on the left without evidence. And to claim that ours are just as bad as theirs, when we have no disinformation network anything like Fox News on the left, and we do not traffick in ghost flights or fake news. DeSantis actually pulled this stunt. His jets were real and the people he conned are now suing him.
We do not both do it. This is not a bothsiderist issue. There is no basis for maligning the left, especially without any facts at all. Objective fact-checkers debunked the ghost flight story about Biden. So, we do NOT have an equivalent narrative over here. DeSantis DID fly those people to Martha's Vineyard -- that is not a made up ghost flight. It happened and it was wrong to do.
Anon 11:17, a way to look at this is, what if Desantis hadn't done what he did? Where would these migrants be now? Instead, they say they were tricked to get on the flight to the Vineyard - but when they were arrived in the Vineyard that were treated will, then shipped off the island to some abandoned military base. Are they worse off for having been sent to Martha's Vineyard?
DeleteShould have proofread what I just sent.
DeleteIt's been proven in court that our side has narrative affirming soap operas. A Court ruled that what Rachel Maddow says is opinion and exaggeration even when she presents her claims as an assertion of an objective fact. And remember she bragged to Jon Stewart that she was a comedian telling jokes just like he was. This is not a news show. This is a comedy show or a fake news show. It's not information. It's a fun story told in a medium designed to look like a traditional new show. She will make objective statements that are false and a court rules that her audience expects it. It's not factual. It's a show. It's a put on. It is serving to reinforce the good versus evil narratives of her audience. Facts don't have anything to do with it. This is why Somerby once again is 100% correct.
DeleteA court ruled that critics cannot based lawsuits on their excessive literalness. The courts also dismissed Trump's lawsuit against Bill Maher for saying he was related to an orangutan. That doesn't mean Bill Maher never says anything true about politics, nor does it mean everything Maddow says is a lie. If you don't understand the basis for that court decision, ask a trusted lawyer friend to explain it, but don't waste our time here saying stupid things.
DeleteAC/MA, I am astonished that you don't know the difference between kidnapping and human trafficking, and going somewhere by one's own free will, free of coercion. You say you were a lawyer, but you sound like a moron, the sort of person who would say, "what's wrong with rape, sex is nice isn't it?" I no longer believe you were ever a lawyer. I think you are just another right wing troll.
DeleteStrawman argument: no one is saying everything Maddow says is a lie. The issue is do we receive narrative affirming soap operas from cable news and the court ruled that
Delete"Maddow’s show is different than a typical news segment where anchors inform viewers about the daily news" etc. I get it that you don't agree and believe the show really is pure news. And she often does tell the truth but even that supports Somerby"s assertion as she will only tell the truth about narrative affirming issues and disappear the rest.
AC/MA,
DeleteAre you ever going to tell us exactly which group of people should not have their rights protected?
She is a cable news program host, not a nightly news network anchor, and not a reporter. She is a celebrity.
DeleteShe is a celebrity that gives Blue tribals their narrative-affirming soap operas by "exaggerating facts".
DeleteAt least she starts with facts...
DeleteSomerby have never presented a truly convincing argument here that Maddow gets anything wrong, or that she is building narratives to please her audience, or that she is being entertaining more than informative. The main impression most of us have gotten is that Somerby (1) dislikes Maddow for being female and gay, (2) is envious of her status doing a job he might have liked to do himself, (3) has no genuine beef with her beyond this because she does her job well and has a rightfully earned popularity among viewers. She not only has better credentials to understand and present news than Somerby has, but she is nicer and funnier than he is.
Somerby needs to get over himself.
I know you feel that way baby.
Deleteanon 2:48 - I asked a legitimate question that you didn't answer. Instead, stupid insults. They weren't coerced, they were apparently misled. They weren't kidnapped, and weren't victims of "human trafficking." My question is, the bigger picture, aside from Desantis stunts and using this for partisan purposes - what if they weren't sent to lovely Martha's Vineyard and then to a military base - would they have been better off, or no worse off, than if this stunt was never carried out.
Deleteanon 3:23 - I answered your dumb question before. I don't believe there is any group of people who should not have their "rights" protected.
DeleteAC/MA:
DeleteThey were "apparently misled" by who? Apparently by some woman calling herself Perla. By what authority did she have to do this? Was she acting with the power of the State? What State?
We will know some of these answers soon enough. In the meantime, let me just say your rationalization is bizarre.
anon 6:45 a/k/a Corby a/k/a Ivan Pisov - as a lawyer, I can say that reasoning in a sane manner is is a skill that you haven't developed. Anon 7:51 (if you're a different anon than anon 6:45, which is questionable - maybe we'll get some answers to this side show about really how to deal with the emigrant situation - but I'm not rationalizing anything. My point is that even without Desantis tricking them into going to Martha's Vineyard, would their situation have been any better, or any different, than if they were left in Texas? In other words, what would their fate be in if left alone. If shipping them to the Vineyard and then to quarter them in some military base is bad, wasn't also bad where they were in Texas? I'm not rationalizing anything. Aside from indulging in partisan outrage, I'm wondering what the situation of these emigrants is in general.
DeleteMore ad hominems. Typical.
DeleteThose immigrants lives are none of your business.
Delete
DeleteThey're proud people and they should refuse to immigrate to this horrible country, where they are misled, kidnapped, and humyn-trafficked.
like you
Delete"I don't believe there is any group of people who should not have their "rights" protected."
DeleteSo gay people should have their rights protected?
So immigrants should have their rights protected?
So women should have their rights protected?
I ask, because I've seen you disparagingly call protecting the rights of gay people, immigrants, women, etc. "identity politics".
AC/MA:
DeleteI see you ignored the point of my question.
They were "apparently misled" by who? Apparently by some woman calling herself Perla. By what authority did she have to do this? Was she acting with the power of the State? What State?
My interest is in the legality of what happened. We have an out of control governor of a very large state running for re-election in a matter of weeks and it would be nice to know if he thinks he can break laws with impunity before then. He is a petty little petulant dictator who likes to abuse the power of the state to punish critics of his policies and is poised to launch a presidential campaign. I would like to know if he is a criminal.
Who are these nameless lawless DHS agents who waived these immigrants seeking asylum through with false addresses?
According to the migrants, DHS agents met the migrants as they were boarding the plane. The agents gave them false addresses of homeless shelters from all over the country—from Tacoma, Washington, to Florida—and told them to use them as their contact addresses. “According to the paperwork provided to them, the migrants are required to check in with the ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] office nearest to the fake address chosen for them by DHS, or be permanently removed from the United States,” Self said. Some are required to check in as early as Monday morning.
Are you cool with DHS agents participating in this little stunt also?
Your "all's well that ends well" little rationalization doesn't cut it.
Yes of course, due to the humanity of the good people of MV and MA dealing with the situation presented we assume the immigrants are being dealt with humanely now. That isn't the fucking point.
D is a dangerous psycho.
ReplyDeleteIf people like Trump and DeSantis are put in jail when they commit crimes, there might be less talk of ghost flights at press conferences. These guys are lying liars and there is no reason to give credence to their lies, other than to remind people that Republicans lie, as if we didn't already know it. There isn't room in newspapers to debunk all of the lies spread on the right.
ReplyDeleteShould the NY Times devote a story to debunking the idea that a Simpson's episode 9, season 24, about preppers is telling the truth about Trump's future triump over the pedos? Q-Anon says it is true and I'll bet very few people on the left know about that one. Should the Wash Post put it at the top of page 1, instead of the advice columns?
Somerby says we've got to debunk this stuff. But why is that our job, when we didn't invent it and we don't believe it?
"The analysts screamed and tore at their hair. "Back out of all this now too much for us," we heard a voice say in our heads!"
ReplyDeleteHere is the heart of the problem. Somerby should have suspected something was wrong in his world when he started seeing imaginary analysts and hearing voices in his head.
Democrats are devoting their limited time on this planet to getting out the vote for the midterms so that we can hold the House and Senate and get things done under Biden's administration. Our country needs us to do that. It would be a waste of time to chase Somerby's butterflies. We need to keep our eyes on the prize and not be distracted by ghost flights or even Somerby's endless non-specific criticism of our tribe. We are on the right track.
He should have noticed, too, that the voices' comments were word salad. "Back out of all this now too much for us," indeed.
Delete
ReplyDeleteWhoa, DeSantis is sued by Jesus!
That's... marvelous. Sen-sational!
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/09/21/three-martha-vineyard-migrants-file-lawsuit-against-desantis/
BS- “Ghost flights” are no more real that a cheese moon. Yes, migrants are often transported from one place to another- surprising isn’t. Fox News is literally making stuff up- how exactly is the real media supposed to cover it.? Should all media be a 24 hour operation that exists for rebutting? Sometimes I wonder if columns like these are actually making things worse.
ReplyDeleteI think they are making things worse.
DeleteAnyone who isn’t a bigot, or isn’t perfectly fine with bigotry, left the Republican Party during the Clinton Presidency.
ReplyDeleteTrump and his businesses have been charged with a civil fraud lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteWill Republicans start calling Trump the “illegal” bigot?
3:08,
DeleteMost likely not. The Right loves the failed slumlord from Queens, because he wears his bigotry on his sleeve.
"It is smily emoji "gender-affirming care" for hospitals to lop off the breasts of 16-year-old girls and brag about their profit margins from carving flesh from girls' forearms to graft fake non-working penises to their genital area. It is "behaving dangerously" to report on it."
ReplyDeleteLove me some Ben Shapiro.
no one is doing that
Delete"Love me some Ben Shapiro."
DeleteI have some great news if you're male.
Anonymouse 3:17pm, gender isn’t based upon biology…so when do you want your new “gender-affirming” penis or breasts?
Deleteno one is mutilating children at children’s hospitals. I am an adult and can choose whatever cosmetic surgery I want.
DeleteAnonymouse10:54am, no, this is not a matter of you having a much needed facelift.
DeleteGender affirming care is being advocated as a human right for transsexuals. Something that hospitals must provide and insurance providers must pay for.
Why? If gender is not a matter of biology (anatomy, genetics) then genitalia doesn’t matter. Breasts don’t matter. Hormone injections don’t matter.
Those things should as much a personal decision (and financial responsibility) as your face lift.
Frankly, the people who argue for this redefining of sex should be the last people to champion gender…stereotypes?”
Cecelia, of course that is the logical position, but since when are progressives logical? Gender sickness is all about hatred for white males, and sick ways of trying to erase the reality of maleness and its association with masculinity.
DeleteDoctors who mutilate anyone, minor or adult, with this sickness should be imprisoned.
"They're not doing it to minors"
"Doctors at Vanderbilt openly bragged about how there is a lot of money to be made providing phalloplasties -- carving the flesh from a minor girl's forearms and forming a fake non-working penis. According to our great elites, this is moral. Covering it is the problem."
Much needed facelift could well have made my afternoon.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:18am, it’s an attempt to redefine and reshape reality in order to establish a new order.
DeleteIt’s right out of Brave New World.
It’s utopian and therefore authoritarian.
The juxtaposition here is that of opaque bureaucracy, i.e. "ghost flights", and deception and political thuggery. Yes, there's a problem. The problem existed under Trump and it exists today. By happenstance, the number of political asylum seekers has increased dramatically, while federal government ability to deal with this increase is lagging.
ReplyDeletePresumably, there are initiatives under way to deal with the surge of asylum seekers, although, per Bob's point, the news outlets should do a better job reporting on that.
This is all orthogonal to DeSantis' stunt. The problem with the stunt is that it was based on deception. This is a wholly separate problem from whether the federal government has done enough to deal with the refugee influx. And, yes, it is pretty outrageous to use helpless, desperate people as pawns.
At least the Right had (temporarily?) moved on from using American service members as pawns.
DeleteThey are not refugees, dear Ilya. The vast majority of them are economic migrants. We know it, and you know it.
Delete...nor are they "helpless, desperate". Helpless and desperate stayed home, while these paid good money for bus/train/air tickets and then to coyotes.
And they are being brought here to be exploited, and to suppress domestic wages. To lower labor costs. Just like moving Detroit car factories to Juarez, by NAFTA. What other possible reason could it be?
...but hey, at least you get to do your little virtue signaling...
You don’t get asylum for economic reasons.
DeleteMao,
DeleteYou don't believe enough in the free market to compete with immigrants?
Not surprised. It's's pretty well known Right-wingers hate immigrants because if they have to compete with them on merit, Right-wingers are screwed.
They are asylum seekers, Mao; thus, they are potential refugees. I just got tired of typing "asylum seekers" all the time, but it was clearly stated in my post.
DeleteIn fact, some of them literally had no money left...for anything.
They are economic migrants posing as asylum seekers. Imposters. The vast majority of them anyway.
DeleteAsylum seekers go from Venezuela to Columbia, and stay there.
By the way, do you know that there is no road from Venezuela to the US? Darien Gap, between Panama and Colombia. You can't cross it. You need to take a boat. Or a plane. Quite a travel for the 'helpless and desperate'.
"Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country" (per UNHCR). Columbia is the most natural choice. The US of A is one of the least natural.
...unless, of course, you're a garden variety economic migrant, trying to cheat the system.
Trump Trump Trump Trump…. Massive lawsuit!
ReplyDeleteLooks bad for your boy, Bob, and they are just warming up…..
if Jeffrey Dahmer would have run for city council, Bob would accuse the prosecution of playing politics by convicting him. But only if Dahmer ran as a Republican.
Delete"Jeffrey Dahmer was a 2016 Independence Party candidate for president.[1]
DeleteBallotpedia documented all statements of presidential candidacy registered with the Federal Election Commission during the 2016 election cycle. While Dahmer was named in one of these statements, that does not guarantee Dahmer authorized the filing or actively campaigned.
Elections"
On the money, anonymouse 4:09pm.
DeleteIt is too bad Somerby hasn't implemented a comment system that permits you to "like" other people's statements, but must you fill the comments with me too remarks like this? Do you really think Trump's goose is cooked, or did you misunderstand what 4:09 said?
DeleteNeither, Anonymouse 6:388m.
DeleteNo one here fills the comment board with “me too” type comments. Stop grasping.
@6:30 for example
Deleteanonymouse 11:28pm, that’s one blue-moon agreement with an anonymouse.
DeleteAgain- quit grasping.
Part of the problem seems to be that Republicans are confused about many factual matters concerning life. For example, Josh Hawley seems to think that there is only one gender (From Rawstory):
ReplyDelete"In a fundraising email to his supporters, Hawley asked folks to give to his campaign so he could help stop schools from teaching that there's more than one gender...
"Blue states are teaching kids transgender propaganda in schools when they're as young as first graders," Hawley claims in a screen capture posted by New York Times reporter Ken Vogel. "These teachings go against nature, science, and common sense — but this is what Liberals (sic) want our children to learn."
At the bottom, he asks users to click a button to take the "survey" Option 1 is "Yes — keep transgender propaganda OUT" and the second option is "No — teach young children there is more than one gender."
Even staunch traditionalists acknowledge two genders: male and female.
“ Even staunch traditionalists acknowledge two genders: male and female.”
ReplyDeleteIt’s a tradition. Just like the rotation of the planet.
If you had to pick one, as Hawley requires, we suspect Hawley would pick male, but which would you go for, Cecelia?
Deleteanonymouse 6:36pm, you might as well ask me to pick whether I want a heart or whether I want lungs.
DeleteThere is no life in the world without both.
So, tell your friend Josh Hawley the facts of life.
DeleteNever met him.
DeleteLucky bastard.
DeleteSurely he isn’t that terrible…
DeleteMore confused Republicans. This one doesn't know what century he is living in:
ReplyDelete"Michigan congressional candidate John Gibbs (R) once railed against giving women the right to vote, arguing that America has “suffered” since women’s suffrage, CNN reports.
Gibbs “also made comments in the early 2000s praising an organization trying to repeal the 19th Amendment which also argued that women’s suffrage had made the United States into a ‘totalitarian state.’"
Do you hate Mr Gibbs because he's black, dear government scientist?
DeleteHis race is irrelevant.
DeleteSo, you picked some random person, whom you've never met and who hasn't done anything to you, to express your hatred, and that person just happens to be an African-American who you people enslaved for 400 years?
DeleteIs this what you want us to believe, dear government scientist?
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Delete-- a democrat politician, 2007.
Does this one know what century he is living in?