MONDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2023
Norman Brown's secret revealed: The episode seems to have started with an award to Christiane Amanpour.
It was a thoroughly standard D.C. award. You can read about it in this public announcement, an announcement bearing this headline:
Georgetown, Hillary Clinton Honor Journalist Christiane Amanpour and Women Peace Leaders
So far, so thoroughly unremarkable. That said:
From there, the episode seems to have moved on to an interview with Clinton.
As far as we know, the full transcript of Amanpour's interview with Clinton hasn't yet appeared. We're still dealing with excerpts from the interview, largely provided by CNN.
Also this:
As best we can tell, the full videotape of the interview won't appear until tonight's broadcast of Amanpour & Company on PBS. That said, Secretary Clinton made some comments during last week's interview which quickly went viral on Fox.
In our view, some of her comments were ripped out of context. Some of her comments were not.
Possibly failing to offer full context, CNN posted the videotape of the interview's most widely discussed two-minute excerpt. The excerpt was posted under this accurate headline:
Clinton calls for 'formal deprogramming' of MAGA 'cult members'
We can't call that headline inaccurate. We would say that it seems to omit some key context—context concerning who Clinton was talking about.
That said, the notion that Clinton had called for a "formal deprogramming" of some undisclosed number of "cult members" did stir the boobirds at Fox. What did she mean by a formal deprogramming, Fox stars excitedly asked.
In our view, a bit of context was being omitted. But in all fairness, Secretary Clinton's statement to Amanpour did seem a bit odd on its face.
What the heck did Clinton mean by this call for "a formal deprogramming?" We don't have the slightest idea—and no, we see no sign on the videotape that Secretary Clinton was joking.
We'll leave that question where it lays—and the topic has now been wiped from the map by the globe's newest war. For ourselves, we were most struck by a different part of what Clinton said—by comments which recall a famously unfortunate comment from Campaign 2016.
Why are so many voters "still with Trump?" As we noted last Friday, Joe Scarborough joined Walter Isaacson in offering some possible reasons back on September 29.
Given ongoing poll results, it's an important question! Speaking with Amanpour last week, Hillary Clinton began to answer a similar question:
AMANPOUR (10/5/23): When you see another matchup between, potentially Trump and President Biden, what goes through your mind? And particularly, how do you process that this person who defeated you back in 2016 is still at it, given all that you've said—91 indictments, you know, civil fraud, sexual transgressions, according to the courts. How is this still happening?
CLINTON: It's a classic tale of an authoritarian populist who really has a grip on the emotional, psychological needs and desires of a portion of the population. And the base of the Republican Party, for whatever combination of reasons, and it is emotional and psychological, sees in him someone who speaks for them.
And they are determined that they will continue to vote for him, attend his rallies, wear his merchandise. Because for whatever reason, he and his very negative, nasty form of politics resonates with them.
At this point, Hillary Clinton wasn't speaking about a handful of Republican office holders. She seemed to be discussing a significant "portion of the population"—"the base of the Republican Party."
She went on to list the reasons why Trump still appeals to this loosely defined collection of people. Why are so many voters "still with Trump?" As she continued, this is what she said:
CLINTON (continuing directly): Maybe they don't like migrants. Maybe they don't like gay people or black people or the woman who got the promotion at work they didn't get.
Whatever the reason, you know, Make America Great Again was a bid for nostalgia, to return to a place where, you know, people could be in charge of their lives, feel empowered, say what they want, insult whoever came in their way.
And that was really attractive to a significant portion of the Republican base. So it is like a cult. And somebody has to break the—break that momentum. And that's why I believe Joe Biden will defeat them. And hopefully, then that will be the end and the fever will break.
Why are so many people "still with Trump?" According to Clinton, there are several possible reasons, all of which seem to involve the hateful type of emotional / psychological fever which can define a cult.
Why are so many people "still with Trump?" Clinton listed such reasons as these:
It might be because those people don't like migrants. It might be because those people don't like blacks.
It might be because those people don't like the woman who got the promotion they didn't get. They might just want to return to a place where they can feel empowered to insult anyone they dislike!
They may want to insult whoever they please? Just to be completely honest, that isn't completely unlike what Clinton herself seemed to be doing in that part of last week's exchange!
In her excerpted statement to Amanpour, Clinton imagined no reason why people are "still with Trump" which isn't built on psychological fever and hate. We were back to her earlier statement about the "basket of deplorables"—about the tens of millions of American voters who simply can't be redeemed.
Many liberals, progressives and Democrats may be inclined to think that Clinton was simply telling it straight. For ourselves, we thought we were hearing a hint of the way past civilizations have come to an end.
All past empires have come undone, Mitt Romney recently said. Way back in 1960, Norman O. Brown seemed to say that he thought he saw our own civilization, such as it was, beginning to "end in exhaustion"—beginning to come undone.
In a famously gloomy statement to Jimmy Stewart, Carlotta Valdes had mused about the millions of people who have all come and gone. According to Brown, we needed to discover some new mystery, some new undisclosed secret, to renew the basic shape of our world.
According to Brown, we needed to discover a new mystery, some undisclosed secret. We don't really think that's going to happen, but we're finally prepared to reveal what that mystery / secret is, and quite possibly was!
We think Clinton's remark was unwise. Some others will think that we're wrong!
Tomorrow: Everyone makes mistakes
"We think Clinton's remark was unwise. Some others will think that we're wrong!"
ReplyDeleteHillary Clinton is not running for anything. She has retired. She was being interviewed for her wisdom and experience and because she won an award. She can say whatever she wants and people should listen, because she has that wisdom and experience. Instead Somerby chides her.
I think Somerby is wrong. Mostly, I dislike the way Somerby blames others for pointing out the obvious, without suggesting any reason himself for the behavior of that subset of the Republican population. If Somerby thinks this isn't emotional and psychological for the MAGAts, what does he think is causing this phenomenon?
In a democratic society, everyone can be criticized and debated regardless of their status or experience.
DeleteSo what?
DeleteWhat does Hillary Clinton suggest is driving Republican behavior? For that subset of voters, she says it is psychological things like hatred of immigrants and minorities and women. Why does she say that? Because Republican efforts have targeted exactly those people, with malice. Have minorities done something to make themselves the targets? Some might say that they have overreached in their quest for equal participation in society, but those who would say that are those trying to suppress minority and women's rights, which proves Clinton's point, not Somerby's. But if minorities and women are not being punished for their own actions, why would others be targeting them this way? Somerby doesn't say, but Clinton does. In the absence of any explanation by Somerby, I am inclined to side with Clinton and call for the Republicans to stop this bad behavior and rejoin the reasonable people on the right and left.
ReplyDeleteI am puzzled about why Somerby wouldn't wait until the actual interview appears in full to criticize Clinton. By jumping the gun, he can only deal with leaked excerpts taken out of context and that hardly seems fair to anyone, least of all Hillary Clinton.
ReplyDelete"Why are so many voters "still with Trump?""
ReplyDeleteYour tribe celebrities' and functionaries' hideous drivel notwithstanding, if not with Trump, who else should the working people be with?
There's no one else; no other variable anti-swamp candidate.
They should be with whoever best represents their interests, enacts measures and policies to help their condition, and does not damage their prospects. Right now, that is Biden. It is certainly not Trump.
DeleteSwamp is a made-up term used by Q-Anon and others on the right to manipulate conservative voters. There is no swamp, and if Trump were reelected and enabled to destroy civil service or our intelligence services or permanent government employment, we would see huge chaos and perhaps the institution of an autocratic dictatorship of the right. That wouldn't be good for our democracy or the large majority of citizens in it, so we must oppose a blatant takeover by Trump and his minions. If only because they do not have the skills or smarts to run this country, after destroying our existing government.
But you trolls keep on being you. Every little bit they pay you for this crap will help to bankrupt Putin and bring the Ukraine invasion to an end.
Shut up Mao.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:53am, I think the “working people” as anonymices define them might be supportive of the Bidens.
DeleteThere’s Hunter on the internet in his red scarf and now Fred Biden is on some sort of creepy site sans pants.
Whatever channel does the Honey Boo Boo or Duck Dynasty series should call them.
Joe Biden has brothers Frank and James. Who is Fred? The rest of your comment makes no sense at all. Why do you have to be writing stuff here if you are semi-coherent so much of the time?
DeleteAnonymouse 7:06pm, Fred is the accompanying member of Frank’s photo.
DeleteI found this one: "Fred Sears, a retired Wilmington banker and Biden family friend" but Biden does not have a brother named Fred. So who is this Fred Biden you are talking about? Why would you label someone named Fred as a Biden and claim he has no pants on?
DeleteStop posting comments here that make no sense and annoy people by taking up time and space, making it harder to scroll through and read actual comments. We get it that you don't like Biden, but inventing relatives and saying they have no pants on is just plain odd, not to mention dishonest.
Or better yet, go take a nap and come back when you are sober or sane.
Anonymouse 8:16pm, you have a talent for playing dumb. You’re an absolute natural and Fred sends his best.
DeleteFred Corby here. I am not related to Fred Biden.
DeleteThis is what YOU said, Cecelia:
Delete"There’s Hunter on the internet in his red scarf and now Fred Biden is on some sort of creepy site sans pants."
What did you intend by that?
David in Cal would benefit from formal deprogramming, but Cecelia, sadly, would not.
ReplyDeleteNot a chance.
DeleteNothing to be proud of.
DeleteInteresting that Cecelia and the anti-swamp creature are both up early at the same time. Just sayin'
DeleteI’d feel worse if I thought in terms of “deprogramming” people.
DeleteDeprogramming refers to psychiatric treatment using talking therapy and perhaps pills, not the machines in 1984. It is cult-specific language, but it certainly fits this situation because Q-Anon is definitely a cult and so are those who cannot listen to reason about dear leader, even with 91 felony indictments. If that's you, please consider how this addiction to such an asshole is enhancing your life.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:27am, who are up with this Monday morning?
DeleteAnonymouse 10:49am? Anonymouse 11:12am? Anonymouse 10:46? Anonymouse 10:40am, etc…
Anonymouse 11:33am, the USSR was big on that sort of deprogramming back in the day, via “psychiatric” treatment and neuroleptics.
DeleteThat hasn’t been a policy of our government or medical profession, but you can keep your gmfibgers crossed.
What do you guys call those places where you turn gay people straight, Cec?
DeleteTo add to my comment @11:57, I think Russia and the Mullahs have similar places. you're in good company, Cec.
DeleteOur so-called medical profession has been deprogramming people from cults for generations. There are treatment facilities for doing that. What the USSR did (or China) is not the same thing -- as 11:33 clearly stated with the reference to 1984.
DeleteBut when a cult programs people, that IS what it does. Sensory deprivation, gaslighting, isolation from previous friends and family, love bombing, psychological manipulation, attention from a charismatic cult leader, punishment by shunning. All of that is how you create dedicated MAGA and Q-Anon members, it is what the deprogramming counteracts, not what deprogramming consists of. There are books on this subject, assuming you know how to read (and they haven't yet been banned).
What is a gmfibger?
Anonymouse 11:57am, I have no idea what they’re called, I just know they’re voluntary and psychologists aren’t suggesting them to anyone.
DeleteYou?
Anonymouse 12:08pm., that treatment would sound right up your alley, along with an infinitely expanded definition for brainwashed, if we both didn’t know it’s just hackneyed polemical political rhetoric on your part.
DeleteBy that, I mean the feigned desire to help anyone who isn’t already YOU- in every sense of the word.
Voluntary! Bwahahaha!!!!!
DeleteThe fall of the USSR was a great tragedy.
DeleteIf you start with the assumption that racism is over and sexism is not a thing, then Clinton's remarks might seem inexplicable. Somerby is the hear no evil, see no evil monkey when it comes to the right wing, but he certainly speaks a bunch of evil as he frantically tries to displace right wing wrongdoing onto the left, just as Republicans are trying to blame Biden for what Hamas did, after trying to blame Biden for every migrant who has tried to cross our border, and blame Biden for homeless people sleeping in the streets due to poverty, and so on.
ReplyDeleteIt must be nice to have a scapegoat. Just as the right has taken no responsibility for any of their mistakes, Somerby joins them in blaming Hillary for Trump's current problems, even though she is his main victim (along with the rest of the American people).
There is an undisclosed secret. It is that Hillary has been right all along. The sooner Somerby and the rest of the right wing acknowledges that and cleans up its own trash, the sooner we can all go back to addressing the nation's problems (such as global warming, world peace, and dealing with AI).
The right wing hasn't got a clue what to do about any of that, but it wants to be in power -- with its main goal to stay in power. Meanwhile, our problems won't wait. The right is terrified and clueless, so it displaces those fears onto certain scapegoats (as Hitler did with the Jews) and then attacks them. In this case, it is minorities, immigrants and nasty women who are the targets. Hillary is right that this is an emotional and psychological motivation. Buying guns and threatening people is an expression of right wing terror. The most frightened people kill the most innocent victims in mass shootings. The rest are banning books -- because it is truly children's books and drag that have caused our summers to get hotter and our storms bigger.
We cannot afford to coddle these dangerous infants any more. We need them to "man up" and face the world we live in and HELP the Democrats solve our problems, not huddle in a weeping quaking mass while they paralyze the government and make everything worse at a time of crisis.
It is clearly wrong for Somerby to be picking on Hillary when, had he helped instead of hindered her campaign in 2016, she might have spent 8 years working to stop climate change, improve world relations, and prevented so many needless deaths during the pandemic. Somerby is once again attacking the wrong people. But he should be asking himself where his own impulse to attack comes from, and why he never makes positive suggestions about anything.
anon 11:22, TDH has never said that "racism" is "over" or that "sexism is not a thing." I wouldn't be surprised if practically everyone acknowledges that there is some "racism" going on. By the same token, murders, robberies, tax evasion, drunk driving, lying, cheating, assaults, micro-aggressions, etc etc etc, are not "over." Some might say, perhaps with some validity, that the degree of "racism" has been exaggerated, that there is less "racism" than perhaps ever before. It would take paragraphs and undue time to point out every unsupportable comment you have made here, but one big howler on your part is the suggestion that TDH somehow cost Clinton the 2016 election.
DeleteYes, he has.
Deleteanon 5:03 - please provide date of such post, with quote of TDH saying that. If you are able to do that, I'll eat my shorts.
DeleteNo, I am not going to look stuff up for you. I'm done doing that. I've done it before and you don't thank anyone for it or change your mind about anything. So it is a waste of anyone's time.
DeleteI've been reading this blog since the beginning. Somerby has several times said, using examples from the news, that black young people are exaggerating their racist incidents into wrongs that have no racial content, that microaggressions and racial slights are not really racially motivated, or are the result of society having taught black young people to be overly sensitive. He has said that incidents of attacks on Asians (during covid) were not occurring (even though we posted news articles describing them). He has said that since race is a social construct, if we all stopped seeing race and focusing on identity, if we abandoned identity politics and concern over civil rights, then racism wouldn't exist. (This is a right wing argument.) Despite racial disparities, Somerby has refused to consider the various BLM incidents of cops shooting unarmed black people to be evidence of racial bias in policing.
He routinely identifies his journalist targets by race and sex, and he refused to admit that Ketanji Brown Jackson is highly qualified to be on the Supreme Court. He has refused to accept that George Zimmerman was racially motivated when he targeted Trayvon Martin.
I didn't say TDH cost Clinton the election. I said Somerby didn't support her, but I have always said that it was a combination of factors, including Russian meddling, hacked emails, Comey's last-minute statement, suppression of liberal votes in three states (identified by polling data and targeted on social media by Russia), and negative media coverage that cost her a slim loss. Somerby has been saying that he voted for Clinton, but he did nothing but criticize her during her campaign. That isn't how you support a candidate.
The Democrats have supported civil rights since the 1950s, when those who were racist formed the Dixie crats and left the party, initially being a third party but ultimately joining the Republicans. I would imagine that Somerby and the Republicans think that if they can convince minorities that the Democrats are no longer supporting civil rights, then some might switch parties and vote for Trump, but that isn't going to happen unless the left abandons its support for civil rights. That's why Somerby is working hard to convince people that identity politics is bad for Democrats, that racism is over so we don't have to support civil rights any more, that this is part of left-wing craziness, not a real phenomenon that needs to be addressed to eliminate institutional racism and the ugly violent racism of the extreme right and white supremacists. Maybe you would like to say that they do not exist any more either? Somerby defended Trump when he called them fine people.
But then, oddly, Somerby disagregates NAEP scores in order to show how intractable racial gaps are, restating that no one cares about low performing black kids. Coupled with his assertions that race is not a thing and identity shouldn't be defined by race, this makes it sound like he thinks black kids are just stupid, too stupid to benefit from education and do as well as their white, Hispanic, Asian, and native American peers on standardized tests. And no need for desegregation, Somerby says. Even though it is one of the interventions that has been shown to increase test scores in black students.
Last time you demanded quotes, I put up some and you ignored them, claiming that I had to quote an exact sentence to your specifications. No. If you've been reading Somerby and don't see why he is racist, as Jeff Foxworthy says, you just might be a racist yourself. You will have to eat something else, because even if I posted an explicit sentence, you wouldn't eat your shorts. You'd wiggle away from your promise -- because you are not a fair-minded person and nothing will convince you of what you think you know -- even when you are wrong.
Try this:
Delete"As tribal warfare has broken out, our own blue tribe has increasingly organized its tribal identity around issues of gender and race. Given the understandable passions involved in these topics, should we believe the various things we're told by the highest authorities within our own blue tribe? ...
Should blue tribe members automatically believe the things we're told by our tribe's highest-ranking academics and journalists? Or is it possible that, even as The Crazy invades The Others, we may perhaps be inclined to tend toward inaccurate "true belief" too?"
This follows the excoriation of a black professor for defending the focus on civil rights on the left:
"Professor Dyson attempts to sound off!
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2016"
https://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2016/12/professor-dyson-attempts-to-sound-off.html
If you read the article, Somerby is very harsh in his criticism of professor Dyson, not only attacking his ideas but also the individual. Somerby's rejection of race and identity is impassioned here.
anon 7:03, I tend to think that your refusal to point out where TDH ever said "racism" is "over" or the equivalent is because you can't do it - he never said it. I'm a little relieved, though, because I won't have to eat my hat. Pretty much every statement you make in your response is false, or a distortion of what TDH has ever said. You apparently are unable to distinguish the difference between saying certain claims of "racism" are exaggerated or false and saying that "racism" doesn't exist. You being anonymous, how was I to know that you were the one who posted those quotes. Aside from that, none of the quotes proved your point - not in the least. I can be convinced, but not by your nonsensical reasoning. For example, if you could point out the date of any post by TDH where he said "racism" is "over" (or the equivalent), I'll be convinced that he ever said such a thing.
DeleteYou aren’t worth the time.
DeleteNot a Rodent, the language you quote here in no way, shape or form constitutes a claim by TDH that "racism" is "over" - if you think that, you're hopeless. I did go back and read the 12/21.16 post (almost 7 years ago!) concerning Professor Dyson. TDH doesn''t "excoriate" the professor. Dyson is quoted as saying "Trump's ignorance about race . . . exists among liberals and the white left too . . ." Dyson disagrees with (or as you seemingly would put it "harshly excoriates") Bernie Sanders for arguing that libs should expand their support beyond blacks and other minorities, and also support disadvantaged, working class whites. Tyson disagreed with Sanders on this point, and TDH criticized Dyson's view. Your conclusion that TDH's "rejection of race and identity is impassioned here [in the 2016 post]" is entirely the product of your imagination. Anyone can go to the post and see for themselves.
DeleteI don't care what you think -- as someone noted above, you are not going to be convinced by anything. But others here can read for themselves and make up their own minds.
DeleteThere are quite a few other posts like this one on various race-related topics. It is clear what Somerby thinks, even if AC/MA is not willing to admit it.
DeleteAC/MA,
DeleteWhich group of people should not have their rights protected? Please tell us, without using the word "woke".
anon 9:00 - you asked that question before - I'll respond now. I don't think any "group of people" should be deprived of any legal or moral rights that they are entitled to. I'm not sure why you ask though, in that I've never said anything to the contrary.
DeleteHere is another irony. MAGAs seem to love it when Trump tells the truth and speaks plainly about race and immigrants and shit. Yet when Hillary does the same thing, telling us that some of these folks are so crazy they will need to be deprogrammed to let go of their delusions, she is doing something bad. Bad Hillary!! Somerby warns that she is ending civilization as we know it. But Trump gets to call for his former General to be executed for treason! Without a word of admonition from Somerby.
ReplyDeleteThis is Topsy Turvey world, but Somerby's dislike for women is showing again. He can't even wait for the interview to be published to blame Hillary for the Fall of the Romans. And if that isn't a right wing talking point, nothing is.
Trump fears Hillary even more than he fears Melania. She makes his tiny little appendage shrivel, like Somerby's does.
DeleteClinton's statement may be politically unwise even if it is accurate. It could alienate potential voters, similar to past controversial remarks like the 'deplorables' comment or Romney's '47 Percent' statement.
DeleteNo one who would consider themselves encompassed by Clinton's statements is going to change their vote -- they are already voting for Trump.
DeletePeople who are not voting for Trump tend to think he is getting what is coming to him, not being treated meanly because Hillary calls some people deplorable.
We have all tried to convince a Trump voter to believe something different, to change their minds. It doesn't work.
But the larger point is that Hillary is not running for anything and she is speaking only for herself. There really isn't any way Republicans can punish her for saying whatever she wants these days.
I noticed Corby's program swings into action every time the 2016's loser is mentioned.
ReplyDeleteNot sure Corby can be deprogrammed, though. Ignoring her is probably the best solution.
Why aren't you already doing that? Everyone else is.
DeleteShorter 11:41 -- Corby, I just can't quit you!
Delete“Not completely unlike” is a curious phrase,
ReplyDeleteit seems built to justify the barely true.
A grapefruit is not completely unlike
A beach ball. Hillary is not completely
Trump, etc.
"Whatever the reason, you know, Make America Great Again was a bid for nostalgia, to return to a place where, you know, people could be in charge of their lives, feel empowered, say what they want, insult whoever came in their way. "
ReplyDeleteWhat does Somerby highlight in this sentence? The part about insulting whoever came in their way. Not the part about nostalgia and longing for things to be the way they were -- the part that suggests MAGAs are worried about the future and dislike the changes happening now.
It seems to me that this is a phenomenon related to the way our world has been changing -- for better and worse. It would be foolish of any of us to ignore the changes in our climate and their consequences for how we live. But the question is not whether such changes are happening, nor is it whether the changes are good or bad, but what are we going to do about them. Blaming isn't a solution.
This next election should come down to "who has the best ideas for coping with new threats and helping our country survive in a changing world? Based on those criteria, it cannot be Trump because of the way he mismanaged covid, because his party has no platform, and because of the dysfunction in Congress, where nothing is being done.
Biden did a good job of controlling inflation and setting our economy on a sound course after dealing with the distribution of covid vaccine and dealing with unemployment and job disruption during lockdown and afterwards. He is strengthening both the economy and our infrastructure because these storms will place greater strains on them. He is emphasizing alternative energy to build our future economy and to slow down global climate change. And he is struggling with the influx of people from other countries, a migration situation that will only get worse as climate pressures affect the rest of the world.
He is calm and rational and listening to wise advisors, not nut cases. And he respects the will of the people and of congress. He is not talking about nuking anything, not even hurricanes. He is so obviously the better candidate that it makes sense for Hillary Clinton to wonder what is wrong with the MAGAs. Her theory is as good as anyone else's, and better than Somerby's, since he has suggested no explanation at all for why half the country is living in a violent gun-infested lalaland where your neighbors are your enemies.
Liberals have created a fantasy version of Trump in which he is evil in every possible way. In particular, he must be racist, homophobic, and misogynistic. Of course, none of these is true. Trump has many negative aspects, but not these three.
ReplyDeleteDoes Hillary truly believe this nonsense? I suspect that she does. She probably has few contacts with Trump supporters, so she doesn't see what they're really like.
First off it's crazy to think Trump is not misogynistic. That takes willful avoidance and ignorance of the obvious.
Delete"She's not my type," referring to E. Jean Caroll.
"Grab 'em by the pussy," referring to potentially star-struck easy scores.
Enjoy...
"26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?"
"The smart ones act very feminine and needy, but inside they are real killers."
"You know, it doesn't really matter what [the media] write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of ass."
“Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president? I mean, she’s a woman, and I’m not supposed to say bad things, but really, folks, come on. Are we serious?"
"'You're disgusting, you're disgusting," he addresses a lawyer needing to take a break to breast feed their baby.
"“Rosie O'Donnell is disgusting, both inside and out."
"The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment," on whether women should be punished for having an abortion.
"If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps, I would be dating her. Is that terrible?"
"...blood coming out of her wherever." regarding Megyn Kelly handling a debate.
I'm getting tired... there's more out there.
Here is David, admitting he cannot tell fantasy from reality
DeleteThanks for your response, @12:43. You show a lot of politically incorrect things Trump has said. Yes, we all know that this is how Trump talks. But, non-PC speech does not equate with opposing women's job advancement.
DeleteActually, these comments are mosly vivid ways of saying something reasonable. The "pussy" comment was a way of saying that women are very strongly attracted to rich, powerful men. The Ivanka comment was a vivid way of praising his daughter. The comment about women's beauty being a factor in electability is probably correct, even though one may wish it wasn't. Hillary might have been elected if she looked like Kristi Noem.
OP here. Well, thanks for the reply, David. It's refreshing to see you willig to engage on this but you've made a weak attempt to rationalize his remarks.
DeleteDo you think it's "reasonable" to find a woman's breast feeding disgusting?
Dating your own daughter? I don't see that as a vivid way of saying something reasonable. You can have pride about your daughter's beauty without having to frame at as you, yourself being attracted to her. That's weird at that point, not reasonable.
Harboring a belief that women's successes are solely due to their looks, that's not at all reasonable. It's the very definition of sexism.
Women and men together? Well, there will be sexual assaults. That's boys being boys! Sorry David. Not reasonable.
Take a closer look at yourself and be honest.
We haven't even gotten to actions, we're just dealing with words.
DeleteAre you also prepared to defend the stuff Trump has done that he doesn't even deny (we won't get into his numerous sexual assaults since you can just claim that all the victims are lying.)
Because Trump is on record admitting he likes to walk around the dressing area at teenage beauty pageants and stare at the half-dressed girls. Do you think that's an okay thing to do? How about bragging about it after? Perfectly reasonable?
@1:17 urges me to look at myself and be honest. Well, I'm a bit older than Trump. I honestly confess that I like looking at beautiful teen age girls. Is that OK? As the line from an old Frank Loesser song goes, "They can't put you in jail for what you're thinking."
DeleteI don't find public breast-feeding "disgusting", but many people do. Trump's disgust at this practice tells us nothing about how he feels about women's advancement in the workplace.
I do have a single complaint about your paraphrase of my comment. I didn't say women's success is due ONLY to their looks. I said good looks are an asset. They're an asset for men, too. Do you not agree?
I'll bet you're disgusted looking at wounded veterans too, huh David?
DeleteTrump connects looks and success directly, without ambiguity. So it's not exactly like saying it's simply an asset.
DeleteSo, you imply you would be comfortable walking around a dressing room with half naked girls. How about the part where they see you and they are upset by your presence. You continue to look and even grin in response? You are okay with hurting someone else directly in a way that may last just to get a temporary fix?
You understand there is a distinction from your personal desires and feelings from what's appropriate for society, right? Should we all go around just yelling "nice ass!" to teenage girls in their formative years, because, indeed it is a nice ass? And they may as well get used to hearing it? Is that how it goes?
I guess what I'm saying, David, is there are base human desires and sure, we can't pretend those don't exist. But we also have matters such as human dignity and basic respect for others. It's for those reasons we don't treat women as sex objects, especially when they don't at all wanted to be treated that way. Not because we are saying there is no such thing as desire. Can you see the distinction?
DeleteYou are addressing David, who believes with all his heart that Trump is a brilliantly successful real estate billionaire, not just another crooked fraud.
DeleteWell I'm just interested that stuff like this needs to be explained. I'm curious if I can change his opinion about whether ogling underage girls against their will when they are unambigiously uncomfortable with it being a bad thing or not. How far does it have to go before David's humanity kicks in? Throw in some ass slapping and boob squeezing? Does there have to be screams of terror before we know something is wrong?
DeleteGo back in the archives. We knew this about Trump in 2016 and DiC just laughed it off. Nothing will penetrate David's ideology. Trump bragged about the size of his dick in one of the first GOP primary debates. He mocked a disabled reporter. On and on and on and on ....
DeleteNah I'd like to get an answer from David to my 2:32 post, if he'd care to. I'm most curious about where the line is, in his mind. How much human suffering is exactly needed before someone should "behave."
DeleteAnd once that's established, maybe he can answer this: if based on his answer, we feel like we wouldn't be comfortable having him around our loved ones, and in general part of this society, if he feels that is valid or not. I mean, the guy has a brain, let's see if any of this basic stuff is even clicking in there.
Delete"Is that OK?"
DeleteWhat I do know for sure is that shoving your 60 y.o. dick into the mouth of your 18 y.o. subordinate, right at the workplace, is perfectly fine. It's outright righteous and virtuous.
Liberals told me that.
Let's put aside the what aboutism for just a moment and see if we can agree on the scenario being discussed. Is that OK?
DeleteMaybe you'd like to chime in 3:49?
An ass is a donkey. A butt is an arse.
DeleteWhen trying to discuss something, it's good to check your premises. I make no assumptions about people's beliefs simply based on their party affiliation. And thinking that you can do that is one of the core assumptions that we need to stop making.
DeleteOr we can just do blue and red pissing wars and treat it like a sport. Perhaps that's more fun but it will never be as productive.
The comments above are good evidence that Trump is disgustingly personally immoral. I could quibble with some of them, but let's take is as given that Trump is disgustingly personally immoral. Two responses
Delete1. Trump's personal failings do not demonstrate that he is racist or a homophobe or that he opposes women's advancement.
2. Sadly, we no longer expect our President to be a moral exemplar. Clinton' obviously. Obama bring his family to a racist, hate filled church. Biden selling foreign policy for millions of dollars paid to his relatives. That's four in a row.
BTW I wish you anonymous folks would choose a user name. Then I would know whether various comnebts are made by the same person.
"That's four in a row."
DeleteUmm, not exactly. There was Bush II there in the middle. Born-again Christian. Which makes him, obviously, a highly moral individual, who will see the kingdom of God. I have no doubts that he's never looked at a half-naked girl or said "pussy" since his conversion. Hallelujah!
George H.W. Bush wasn't "born again". He grew up in a religious family and stayed there.
DeleteBush oversaw the one of this century's greatest moral atrocities.
Delete"Biden selling foreign policy for millions of dollars paid to his relatives."
DeleteAn evidence-free assertion.
"Trump has many negative aspects, but not these three."
DeleteOkay, David.
Why don't you list us 5 of the "many".
That's self-admitted sexual predator, terrible businessman, and soon to be three-time Republican Party Presidential nominee Donald J. Trump. Show some respect to the office of the Presidency.
Delete3:21, I hope you found that exchange with our resident passive-aggressive troll, DiC, to be very enlightening.
DeleteThe deprogramming of Trump cultists would start with the fact that the sun does not rise in the west, despite what Trump says. Good luck with that!
ReplyDeleteThe rub for you is that we don’t want the sun to set on the West either.
DeleteDavid, not just Trump. You heard Clinton. Every one of their political contrarians.
DeleteThis isn’t different from anything she said in the 90’s. It’s not different from what liberals said about HER when she ran against Obama.
It’s how they do business.
Don't be so foolish, Cecelia. You shouldn't be taking Hillary LITERALLY, you should take her seriously.
DeleteIsn't that how it works, David?
Anonymouse 1:01pm, I take what you and Hillary say seriously and literally.
DeleteYou mean it for as long as someone is in your way.
Suppression and obstruction are Republican tactics.
DeleteVoters are the Republican Party's kryptonite.
DeleteBoebert for Speaker!
ReplyDeleteDavid in Cal has what it takes. He could be successfully deprogrammed.
ReplyDeleteI am Corby.
ReplyDeleteI'm Brian, and so is my wife!
DeleteI am not Corby.
DeleteClinton’s comments are hardly shocking,
ReplyDeleteBill Maher was calling MAGA a cult years
ago. It’s one, rather sympathetic, was of
looking at it. But it’s about as shocking
as saying “they drank the cool aid.”
But, as a potential Republican talking
point, we can count on Bob to jump on
legitimate political discourse for all
it’s worth.
This morning on MoJo, Jonathan Greenblatt absolutely excoriated MSNBC.
ReplyDeletewhat is MoJo?
DeleteMorning Joe.
DeleteSo, who is Johnathan Greenblat?
DeleteAnonymouse 1:12am, he’s the same guy you’re pretending to have not googled.
DeleteThe Christopher Rufo of the Left?
Delete