MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 2023
The (unelectable) hopefuls: Long ago and far away, it emerged as a type of alleged philosophical problem.
More precisely, it has been described as a paradox—as the "irresistible force paradox." Historically, the conundrum has taken this form:
What happens when an irresistible force meets an unmovable object?
So runs the ancient paradox. The leading authority on the miasma thumbnails it as shown:
Irresistible force paradox
The irresistible force paradox...is a classic paradox formulated as "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" The immovable object and the unstoppable force are both implicitly assumed to be indestructible, or else the question would have a trivial resolution. Furthermore, it is assumed that they are two entities.
[...]
An example of this paradox in eastern thought can be found in the origin of the Chinese word for contradiction. This term originates from a story in the 3rd century BC philosophical book Han Feizi. In the story, a man trying to sell a spear and a shield claimed that his spear could pierce any shield, and then claimed that his shield was unpierceable. Then, asked about what would happen if he were to take his spear to strike his shield, the seller could not answer...
Another ancient and mythological example illustrating this theme can be found in the story of the Teumessian fox, which can never be caught, and the hound Laelaps, which never misses what it hunts. Realizing the paradox, Zeus, Lord of the Sky, turns both creatures into static constellations.
What happens if the uncatchable fox is chased by the unescapable hound? In such ways, the ancients of the western world attempted to explore the geography of reason.
Presumably, the sheer stupidity of this formulation pretty much speaks for itself. Today, though, we face a similar type of conceptual pseudo-problem. We'd thumbnail the problem as shown:
What happens when one unelectable candidate is running against another?
In theory, neither candidate could be elected. But under the rules of the game, one would have to win!
Our current conundrum involves the candidacies of former president Donald J. Trump and current president Joseph R. Biden.
Assuming each man appears on the ballot next year, we ourselves will be voting for President Biden. But according to very recent rules of thumb, each of these candidates might seem to be unelectable.
What happens when one unelectable candidate is running against another? At present, we're learning some of the answers to this new type of conceptual problem.
Part of what happens is this:
Various attention-seekers and borderline crackpots will also get into the race. In the current circumstance, the two such figures who have already surfaced will almost surely pull more votes away from Candidate Biden.
It's also true that any such circumstance will likely lie near the end of a very long, extremely bumpy, highly embarrassing road. In the current circumstance, as we the people have moved down that road, our moral and intellectual capacities have routinely been tested.
Our capacities have routinely been tested. Routinely, they've been tested and they have failed.
This very morning, we cringed as we watched Fox & Friends pseudo-journalist Brian Kilmeade pretend to discuss the candidacy of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Kilmeade is an undisguised partisan propagandist from the red side of the American tribal divide. But the widespread inability to function has been apparent within the liberal and mainstream press corps worlds for the past five decades too.
That said, it seems that Norman O. Brown may have had it right.
Way back in the 1960s, Professor Brown seemed to think that he could see it coming. In a 1960 Phi Beta Kappa address, he issued this opaque warning:
BROWN (May 1960): I sometimes think I see that societies originate in the discovery of some secret, some mystery; and end in exhaustion when there is no longer any secret, when the mystery has been divulged, that is to say profaned...And so there comes a time—I believe we are in such a time—when civilization has to be renewed by the discovery of some new mysteries, by the undemocratic but sovereign power of the imagination, by the undemocratic power which makes poets the unacknowledged legislators of all mankind, the power which makes all things new.
In liberal circles, Brown was very hot at the time. He's rarely mentioned today.
(Brown died in 2002. To peruse his lengthy obit in the New York Times, you can just click here.)
Norman O. Brown was very hot when he issued that opaque statement. That said, we had no real idea what he meant at the time, and neither did anyone else.
In real time, no one knew what Professor Brown was talking about. Fifty years later, it seems that he may have had it right!
Within the red world, but also within the blue, our capacities have routinely been tested. and routinely they have failed. Simply put, it seems that our imperfect human brains weren't built for this sort of work.
As the week proceeds, we'll offer a handful of manifestations, possibly reaching all the way back to the hapless pseudo-journalism of the 1990s.
Previous empires have come and have gone. Anthropologically, it seems to us that we the humans simply weren't built for this task!
The point of today's essay is to call Biden unelectable. That's ridiculous, given that Biden was already elected with numbers similar to many presidential races. Not only that, but Biden has been doing a better job than many Democrats expected. Some are saying that he is the best president since Truman or FDR, given his response to unusual challenges such as the covid pandemic. There is no good reason for Somerby to be calling Biden unelectable.
ReplyDeleteAs to the fringe candidates, they tend to arise in most elections. Their strength varies. No one thinks that these people run because the main candidates are unelectable.
I am a lifelong Democrat and I am going to vote enthusiastically for Joe Biden. He is not only electable, he is preferable to anyone else running, especially Trump. The Democratic party is behind Biden, which is why strong Democratic leaders like Gavin Newson are not challenging his candidacy. If anyone on the left thought he were too old, they would be running, but they are not.
Somerby's essay today is a hodgepodge of meaningless gibberish with one clear thought. He doesn't want Biden to be elected. What kind of Democrat writes such a screed? One who is not actually a Democrat, doesn't want to reelect the current president and is working as hard as his little pen can scribble to get Trump back into office.
You nailed it. Bill Maher played the same game on his return show.
Deleteanon 10:05 - few things are as useless as arguing about who is going to win this Nov, 2024 election, or for that matter, any electon. that that applies to TDH. the polls say it's close, Biden isn't that popular. I'll voter for Bidnen, but not with such great enthusiasm. But you misinterpret TDH's post. He's saying it's a paradox, if both aren't electable, yet one of them has to win. I don't know who will, other than the person who gets the most electoral college votes. Life will have to go on if a repeat of 2016
DeleteElectibility is not an objective fact. Somerby doesn’t know that either is unelectable, so his paradox is not real.
Delete"In liberal circles, Brown was very hot at the time."
ReplyDeleteActually, I grew up in CA and was fully versed in liberal lore, and yet I never heard of Norman O. Brown. I had to look him up on Wikipedia. I assure you that Brown was NOT "very hot" at the time or any time since.
But I do agree that his writing is incomprehensible. He may have had a hippie or new age following, but political types go for less opaque gurus.
Somerby has mentioned Brown about 5 times over the past decades, but has never managed to link anything Brown has said to any of his own topics, much less make any sense of it. He seems to haul Brown out when he needs to fill space, like he has done today.
There are two bookends in today's piece, a sandwich surrounding one thought -- Biden is unelectable. The first is the nonsense about a logical paradox involving impossible ideas. The second is Norman O. Brown. In the middle is Somerby's belief that Biden shouldn't be running (he doesn't say the same about Trump) and his admission that elections are structured so that someone always wins, which means that no candidate is truly unelectable. But then why call the winner of our last election unelectable?
Because Somerby doesn't want Biden to be elected. And why not? Somerby never argues that Biden is doing a bad job. He would never win that argument, especially matched with Trump. So he must instead pretend that this is a paradox, when in fact it is just another election albeit one with higher stakes than usual. And Somerby is trying to do an impossible job -- convince liberals that Trump is less unelectable than Biden, in an election when someone will win and it better be Biden for the sake of everything most of us care about here on the left.
"Somerby doesn't want Biden to be elected." Just repeat, and repeat, and repeat, until "Everybody knows!"
DeleteTrump does the same thing: "The election was rigged!" Repeat, repeat, repeat, until "Everybody knows the election was rigged!"
"reaching all the way back to the hapless pseudo-journalism of the 1990s"
ReplyDeleteOh goody! Somerby is going to talk about Al Gore again!
Ha. Actually there is no reason that he shouldn’t. The problem is he has all but destroyed his own credibility, so his account of the Clinton era or anything else is hard to take seriously.
DeleteDavid writes better comments than Cecelia.
ReplyDeleteBoy howdy.
DeleteDavid is good, but Cecelia is better.
DeleteCecelia is here to attack other commenters. David is here to spread right wing disinformation. They are not doing the same job, so it is hard to compare them.
DeleteDisinformation does for the conservative cause.
DeleteDisinformation does more for the conservative cause.
DeleteCecelia annoys people who aren’t going to vote for republicans anyway. David confuses the undecided, so they won’t vote for democrats and just might vote for republicans.
At least David and Cecelia use nyms to stand by what they write. They are not Hit-and-Hide Anonymice.
DeleteThe are good, decent conservatives.
DeleteNo anonymous is hidden. Lurkers are hidden. Anonymous commenters speak up.
DeleteCecelia generally is a quip and run commenter.
DeleteCecelia kindly throws in hilarious non sequiturs and malapropisms, free of charge, thanks dude!
DeleteAs far as all the anonymice, there is no way to tell how many of them there are. Also, it's bizarre how they find TDH so devoid of credibility., and much worse, yet addictively follow him, almost always attacking him for things he didn't say. And anyone who speaks like I'm doing here is a 'fanboy'; and how none of them seem to have a scintilla of a sense of humor.
Delete"Previous empires have come and have gone. Anthropologically, it seems to us that we the humans simply weren't built for this task!"
ReplyDeleteEven the oldest trees have a limited lifespan. Everything changes. Why on earth should Somerby or anyone else presume that an empire is meant to last forever? It outlasts human lives, changing and mutating into new forms, because that is what life does. And our individual lives are limited, oceans come and go, mountains rise and are worn down. Somerby's insistence that things must stay the same or something awful is happening is the problem, not the constant change as nature and humanity expand and contract.
I think I will call Somerby's bleating "existential panic." It is what the right wing manufactures and intensifies with its unmeetable demands for stasis.
Biden is certainly electable and he may die in office, may become too sick to govern, but so could any other president (even a young one with bad luck). For that matter, one of the Trump-inspired nutcases could go crazy with a gun and shoot any Democratic candidate or electee, no matter how old. That is why we have a VP and why we have a cabinet and a legislature. To deal with such changes should they occur. Meanwhile, Biden will do our country more good than the destructive impulses of Trump or one of the crazier Republicans who thought it would be a good idea to elect a childish sociopathic narcissistic Soviet pawn.
"Assuming each man appears on the ballot next year, we ourselves will be voting for President Biden. But according to very recent rules of thumb, each of these candidates might seem to be unelectable."
ReplyDeleteAnd if many others have said that they too are voting for Biden, how then is he unelectable?
It is obvious why Trump is unelectable. He has already been convicted in several trials and he is charged with 91 felony counts. He was a horrible president and is promising to do worse things if he wins. The Republicans are in disarray and no longer even as united behind him as in 2020, when he lost. Of course he is unelectable.
But why does Somerby claim Biden is unelectable? In the absence of any good reason, not even his age (younger presidents have been much sicker in office), I speculate that Somerby is among those turncoat lefties who have been paid to shill for the right. And it is his right to accept whatever payment someone offers and to write whatever he pleases here -- but that does not make Biden unelectable either.
This is a smear against Biden. If Somerby calls Biden unelectable often enough, he hopes the idea may stick and Biden will be seen as not a viable candidate, so that voters may turn elsewhere -- but that wouldn't be to JFK Jr, a conspiracy theorist anti-vax nut with nothing to offer the American people. As Somerby himself noted, there is no reason to call anyone unelectable, since someone will and must be elected in 2024. So why introduce the word? To encourage people to consider other candidates besides Biden. And when the right is working this hard to undermine Biden, it should tell us all that they are afraid of Biden, because he is not only the likely winner in 2024, but very far from unelectable.
And phooey on Somerby for trying to pass himself off as a lefty instead of a whore for the right wing.
It will be the song of the hack progressive
Deletefor much of the coming year ad well. Bob is not a progressive but will borrow from them when he needs to. Could he be right ? Could Trump win? Sure. Bob may not want that. But he will see MSNBC humiliated at any cost.
It seems so unkind that you repay Somerby for providing a free essay for you to read by calling him, without rhyme or reason, "a whore for the right wing." And it seems cowardly for you to hide behind Anonymity as you do so.
DeleteWho knew that you have such delicate sensibilities?
DeleteWriting a free essay doesn’t and shouldn’t shield him from criticism.
DeleteDogface are you going to post your legal name and address? (btw these are not as obscure as you think)
DeleteOtherwise you are no less anonymous than anyone else.
After years of being abused for using a handle, I stopped it. You just make yourself more vulnerable to right wing no nothings with big mouths, Dogface, and it really doesn’t have anything to do with being right or wrong.
DeleteDogface being one of those no nothing right wingers with big mouths.
Deletemh, you sure are right that the fact that this a free blog shouldn't shield him from '"criticism." Of course, there is whacko like that of 11:21, and I think that type of whacko stuff from "liberals" that appears here day after day should be a concern if you're a liberal.
Delete"But according to very recent rules of thumb, each of these candidates might seem to be unelectable."
ReplyDeleteDonald Trump is very much electable. Because the conditions that led to his ascension are still there; the severe institutional crisis persists. Getting worse, in fact. And you know it.
Trump lost in 2020 and then he created more conditions that bar his election. One is that he fomented an insurrection and plot against the lawful transfer of power to Biden when he lost.
DeleteAnother condition that has arisen since his last term is the repeal of Roe v Wade. 69% of Americans are pro-choice and women were incensed over the court decision, which Trump claims credit for. Fewer women voted for Trump in 2020, contributing to his loss, and that has only gotten worse not better in the interim. Losing female voters is a much bigger problem than can be offset by gaining a few Hispanic voters in FL.
Lately, Trump's rally speeches have been much more downbeat, lethargic even. He has made more cognitive errors than previously (and more than Biden), and his rallies are less attended and people leave early, having less fun. It seems more obvious that he doesn't like what he is doing and that he is just running for the money and to stay out of jail. That is cutting into his base, which is shrinking daily as more voters are attracted to other Republican candidates or to voting as Independents.
But you keep hoping. Even if they pay you to write this stuff, that doesn't mean you have to believe it.
Blue voters are not at risk to Trump. The battleground is Independents.
Delete"we ourselves will be voting for President Biden"
DeleteAnd your dumb, borderline insane, loyalty to the manifestly rotten elite only make things worse.
Borderline?
DeleteSomething in the way you love me won't let me be
DeleteI don't want to be your prisoner, so baby, won't you set me free?
Stop playing with my heart
Finish what you start
When you make my love come down
If you want me, let me know
Baby, let it show
Honey, don't you fool around
Just try to understand
I've given all I can
'Cause you got the best of me
Borderline
Feels like I'm going to lose my mind
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Feels like I'm going to lose my mind
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Keep on pushing me, baby
Don't you know you drive me crazy?
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Something in your eyes is making such a fool of me
When you hold me in your arms, you love me 'til I just can't see
But then you let me down
When I look around
Baby, you just can't be found
Stop driving me away
I just wanna stay
There's something I just got to say
Just try to understand
I've given all I can
'Cause you got the best of me
Borderline
Feels like I'm going to lose my mind
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Borderline
Feels like I'm going to lose my mind
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Keep on pushing me, baby
Don't you know you drive me crazy?
You just keep on pushing my love over the borderline
Look what your love has done to me
C'mon, baby, set me free
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
You cause me so much pain
I think I'm going insane
What does it take to make you see?
You just keep on pushing my love
Over the borderline
Keep pushing me
Keep pushing me
Keep pushing my love
(Keep on pushing my love over the borderline, borderline)
C'mon, baby
C'mon, darling, yeah
Da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da
Da-da-da-da.
DeleteMadonna is silly, but that song is decent for pop, certainly catchy.
DeleteMadonna is old.
DeleteIf Somerby were seriously concerned about unelectable candidates, he might have discussed the lawsuit in CO and other states, to bar Trump from the ballot on grounds that the 14th Constitutional Amendment bars anyone from running who has participated in an insurrection.
ReplyDeleteThis is even supported by the Federalist Society.
DeleteJohn Gardner, founder of Common Cause, wrote a book on a similar theme to Brown's called "Self Renewal".
ReplyDeleteI do think the US is in desperate need of renewal, because we're on an unsustainable track. in particular, I think our government is on an unsustainable track. The problem is that it's automatic for the government to grow. Agencies get larger, New agencies are formed. Benefits to citizens increase. At some point, like cancer, growth becomes so large that it kills the organism.
Financially, the result is a accelerating national debt that will collapse is some sort of disaster. It also means less and less freedom for individuals and businesses. It also means more and more government control over the what we believe is true. I wish I could see a hope of changing the course of our nation, but I don't.
Where might renewal come from? One might hope it would come from the media, but the media is weak and dishonest, as Bob points out daily. One might hope it would come from the universities, but they're also corrupt, overpriced and dishonest.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRecusal can be a step toward renewal, as it raises ethical standards.
Deletehttps://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2023/10/02/clarence-thomas-recusal-supreme-court
David in Cal,
DeleteIn your humble opinion, should we turn our back on big-government Republicans?
Our leaders need to find a politically feasible way to cut the cost of Social Security and Medicare. That will require bipartisan leadership. We haven't seen such leadership from either party. Nor do we see such leadership from the media. Even Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize economist, makes excuses to encourage not reducing the cost of these programs.
DeleteIf you allow immigrants into our country and give them jobs, they will pay into social security and no cuts are necessary. Why would you doubt the expertise of Krugman after he won a Nobel prize?
DeleteSocial Security and Medicare are in good shape. One little change will help: abolish the Social Security tax limit. High earners should contribute.
Delete@6:57 I am an actuary. Social Security is the one area where am qualified to disagree with Krugman. Also, I am not sure we are getting Krugman's expertise. I think Krugman write's columns supporting Democratic position. At the moment, the Dem position is that Social Security is OK.
DeleteCaesar I like your idea from a political POV. It would be easier to increase the tax on high earners than to decrease the benefits. (I assume you would remove the limit on contributions, but retain the limit on benefits.) Social Security is supposed to be an insurance program. The change you suggest would move it that much farther away from insurance.
I am surprised that simply removing the limit on contributions would be enough to produce solvency. Do you have a cite?
BTW I was told by the former chief actuary of SS that their projections are unreasonably optimistic.
David,
DeleteThanks for recommending Social Security and MediCare budget cuts. Without that, I might have forgot how big of a piece of shit you actually are.
Keep up the shitty ideas.
There is a frequent tendency for conservatives to lump Social Security and Medicare together and argue that both need cuts to remain solvent. This is incorrect. Social Security can be made solvent with changes including that suggested above. Medicare is difficult by comparison, and is in trouble. The US tax code favors the wealthy and large corporations such that wealth is redistributed to those groups over time. Reaganomics was a failure and the fact that Republicans gave Arthur Laffer a medal for his "accomplishments" during the Trump administration is pathetic. If there is one thing that is "not sustainable" it is a democracy in which this -the widening gap in wealth due to tax structure- occurs. We are certainly in the grips of that now. Given this problem, the least that can be done is collect revenue properly within the structure of our current broken tax code. The Biden administration increased funding of the IRS to bring in more agents for the purpose of detecting fraudulent filings. This was was uniformly opposed by republicans because it would do just that, and bring in more revenue than the expenditure would cost.
DeleteOr renewal could come from the Society of Actuaries.
ReplyDelete"What happens when one unelectable candidate is running against another?"
ReplyDeleteSee: Broncos v. Bears, 1 Oct 2023. Eventually, one fails sufficiently within the time allotted to the contest.
538: Biden's net approval rating is negative 14%. (54.5% - 40.5%). Negative 14%.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is the people don't want Biden. The people don't want Trump. But if we want, we can pretend otherwise.
DeleteIs this fair? Not in my view. In my view, Biden's doing a terrific job and should be reelected in a landslide. But my view is not widely shared.
DeleteTrump is the worst presidential candidate from a major party in the history of the United States. He may be in jail come election day. Yet the polling shows a dead-even race. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
DeleteAnd with a built-in 3% Electoral College advantage for Republicans due to the disproportionate weight given to small states, and with two minor candidates siphoning off maybe 1% each, the next election might be very scary.
DeleteBut to those of you who think we shouldn't even try to find ways to persuade even 1% of the Others to our point of view because they are all brain-dead morons - you may wish to reconsider.
DeleteTroll much?
DeleteDogface…Dogface,…don’t fret. Surely you are starting to get that if Bob says “Up”, anonymices will shout, “Down!”
DeleteThis isn’t about Biden or Trump, it’s about Bob not being an apparatchik.
And Trump is at negative 15.9, George.
DeleteNo one here is denying the numbers you quoted. What they are saying, I believe, (at least it’s what I say) is that Biden should be supported, if he is the nominee. It serves no purpose other than to undermine his candidacy to express these formless fears. He’s old! His numbers are bad more than a year before the election! He hasn’t even started really campaigning yet, for heaven’s sake.
Does Somerby want Biden to step aside? In favor of whom? He never says.
This is "about Bob not being an apparatchik." True, true, true, true.
DeleteWhat sincerely puzzles me, though, is why those who want to read apparatchiks keep on reading Somerby?
And why do they blather on about how they can magically discern that Somerby is a really a paid stooge for some big-cash conservative?
mh, it serves the purpose of a guy fretting about things on his blog. He’s going to vote for Biden. He’s not telling people to vote for Kennedy instead.
DeleteDogface doesn’t seem to think that Somerby has committed thoughtcrime by voicing his concerns. Dogface worries too.
Is that not allowed in your world? Is that the fear that must “never say its name”?
DG, they’re not average Democrats/liberals. They’re militants.
DeleteDog why do you care what others comment about?
DeleteIt would seem your fragility is triggered by such comments, anything is possible.
He’s not an “apparatchik”, but he always votes for the democrat. Hmmm. I assume those of us here who also always vote for the Democratic nominee, but believe in giving him positive support where he has earned it are “apparatchiks” by your definition, especially in such a crucial election as our host claims the upcoming one is. I would rather err on the side of too much support for Biden than constantly expressing negativity towards him in a public blog next election. Was Somerby a non-apparatchik maverick when he heavily defended gore against media attacks? No? Yes?
DeleteYou and Somerby love to throw around this idea that criticism of Somerby is akin to accusing him of “thoughtcrime.” Absurd.
Anonymouse 5:25pm, some people feel or give nod to the concerns of others and are puzzled or annoyed to see a pile on by people who label such thoughts as being the purview of a Russian paymaster.
DeleteAre we allowed to criticize the DNC/Democratic party leaders that put us in this position of having an uninspiring, doddering ghoul as our leader? And after 7 years of Trumpism to come up with him and only him with no Plan B at all?
DeleteWhat the fuck is up with that?
Really. What the fuck is up with that?
mh - "Biden should be supported, if he is the nominee." I personally agree with that 100%. GDP is growing 2 - 2.5%. Unemployment rate below 4%. Inflation about 3 - 3.5% and falling. No wars, and he got us out of an endless war in Afghanistan. He's supporting Ukraine in gutting Russia's armies. He got us seamlessly through a horrible pandemic to a soft landing. This is the best of times. I think Biden's been terrific.
Delete"It serves no purpose other than to undermine his candidacy to express these formless fears." I think reality should be faced. For reasons I can't begin to fathom, the next election could go either way. In my view, this scary reality should lead us to what I think is Somerby's point: We have to persuade just 1% of the Others to vote for Biden. We should look for ways to do so.
Biden's negative rating is about the same as other Democratic presidents who were subsequently reelected.
DeleteBut I don't think people should vote for a president based on whether they think he is popular with other voters. They should vote for him because he will do the best job of the people who have declared their candidacy. That's Biden, in my opinion.
Now that Biden has served most of his first term, I think it is obvious that he will do the best job. He has accomplishments to his credit, not promises, and a real track record. That makes him a sure thing compared to the others on the left. Trump's candidacy is a con.
I agree, George. But you start by talking about Biden’s successes, those things you listed among others. That would probably be more effective than constantly worrying about his age, or his favorability numbers. I try to point out Biden’s successes here whenever I can.
Deletemh, you are apparatchiks. It doesn’t matter how close or far we are to an election. You were calling Bob a Putin puppet in 2020 too.
DeleteThere’s no doubt that you’d rather err on the side of too much support for any Democrat politician, anytime of the year, because as a result of such militancy, you can’t even brook criticism of the American media or of calling Trump brain damaged.
mh, why do you have to tell a guy what he should be worrying about or blogging about to the point of calling him a poseur, a traitor to his party, a and double agent when he frets about the future?
DeleteTHAT is the essence of being a political apparatchik .
apparatchik definition:
Delete1. a member of the communist party
2. "a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization"
I doubt there are any actual communists around here, despite the right's propensity for calling all Democrats "communists". I've been seeing this word apparatchik thrown around various places, so I think it must be the right wing designated-derogatory-name-of-the-week, part of their talking points.
Calling someone a registered Democrat isn't much of a claim, since most of us who voted for Biden are also registered to vote as Democrats. It is required for primary elections in most states.
That isn't the same as Somerby being paid to write a pro-right blog, which seems to be the case since around 2015 when Trump became a candidate funded by Russian deep money donations.
This is purely an attack on mh. You don't have any specific complaint, you quote nothing he has written, you are disagreeing with nothing and just making vague negative statements. That is just trolling.
If a person wants to see their candidate elected, there is no such thing as too much support for them. Personal attacks like yours are the refuge of someone too stupid or lazy to follow actual politics.
Encouraging citizens to withhold their honest opinions when they may not entirely align with support for Biden is unwise and counterproductive.
DeleteI am a Marxist-Leninist.
DeleteThe idea of "too much support" is subjective. And it does not mean suppressing one's critical or negative opinions towards Biden. It's not a matter of either/or.
DeleteAnonymouse 5;50pm, that appellation is also used to denote anyone who is a militant political party member to the point of finding any deviation, any “discouraging word” as traitorous.
Delete"That isn't the same as Somerby being paid to write a pro-right blog, which seems to be the case since around 2015 when Trump became a candidate funded by Russian deep money donations."
DeleteI know, I know, it's pointless for me to ask, but: Do you have any evidence to support this otherwise baseless, slanderous accusation?
It's classic that Rodent's evidence-free accusation that Somerby is a Russian stooge is followed by this: "Personal attacks like yours are the refuge of someone too stupid or lazy to follow actual politics."
DeleteBroadly, the criticism of Somerby and his fanboys are based on evidence and rationality, for example, there is no evidence, and Somerby provides none, that “the Other” could be persuaded to vote for Biden (indeed evidence suggests just the opposite), thus it is more rational to criticize this unsupported and potentially dangerous electoral strategy than to blindly defend Somerby because one feels a partisan alignment with him.
DeleteWorse, Somerby and his fanboys rely on bad faith tactics instead of engaging in positive discourse, and then become a curious juxtaposition of despair and disdain when facing the slightest criticism.
Is this supposed to be the evidence that Somerby is a Russian-paid stooge? Or is it just misdirection?
DeleteHow do you explain Somerby’s abrupt shift from liberal to conservative in 2015?
DeleteCecelia 6:03 is making up her own definitions again.
Delete"How do you explain Somerby’s abrupt shift from liberal to conservative in 2015?"
DeleteThere's nothing to explain. He's always been liberal. He's liberal now. This "shift" is all in your head.
The best evidence is Glen Greenwald.
DeleteSomeone uses the nym “Not a rodent” and Dogface immediately refers to him as Rodent, but he insists he is playing nice. Bad faith.
DeleteHarmless speculation that Somerby is being paid for his shift to the Right is supported by evidence of it having occurred with others in similar circumstances, a rational deduction considering the context, and, frankly, a charitable way to view Somerby’s pernicious and unwarranted attacks on the “blue tribe”.
DeleteSpeculation about Somerby’s circumstances can not be reasonably conflated with criticizing Somerby and his fanboys over nonsense, un evidenced claims, that, regardless of the motivating factors, serve only to manufacture ignorance and enhance the fortunes of right wingers, at the expense of everyone else; nor can it reasonably be conflated with the bad faith tactics of Somerby and his fanboys.
If one’s fragility leads one to such consternation over harmless yet reasonable speculation, it does not serve such a person to blame others, and instead one should look inward to healing the root cause.
Somerby is not liberal now.
DeleteLook. Somerby and some of us here believe that a path to electoral victory is to try to persuade 1% or 2% of the Others to vote for Biden. (That does not mean that we shouldn't try to persuade Independents. That does not mean that we shouldn't try to maximize turnout of Blue voters.)
DeleteSome of us here, however, disagree and think that all of the Others constitute an irreformable mass of ignorant, stupid bigots - Deplorables.
Both those who favor outreach to Others and those who don't are liberals who want to see Biden reelected. The two sides differ simply on the tactic whether it would be wise to make any overtures to any of the Others. Those of us who think it would be a wise tactic to try to pick off 1% believe that calling all of the Others "Racists" or other names tends to encourage ALL of the Others to vote for Trump.
"Someone uses the nym “Not a rodent” and Dogface immediately refers to him as Rodent, but he insists he is playing nice. Bad faith."
DeleteI certainly did not mean that in a derogatory sense; it was in a nickname sense, like someone might call me "Dog." And NAR, if you took it that way, I wish to sincerely apologize. In fact, I want go further and say that I respect NAR for using a nym. He's not a Hit-and-Hide Anonymous; he stands by what he says (which I don't happen to agree with).
Moreover, "Not a rodent" is a damn funny nym. He's proudly saying he's not an Anonymous.
DeleteDogface, I was saying that I am not a rodent, first and foremost. I don’t see any humor in that.
DeleteI did not mean to offend, and I feel terrible for doing so. I apologize.
DeleteI don’t know a single liberal who defends Roy Moore, sides with Moms4Liberty, thinks women who drink at parties deserve to be raped, called Ketanji Brown Jackson underqualified, called Kyle Rittenhouse an excitable boy, and called Kamala Harris a liar for quoting DOL statistics. And so much more…
DeleteI am not a canine.
DeleteI do see the humor in that.
Deleteapparatchik
Deletenoun
ap·pa·rat·chik ˌä-pə-ˈrä(t)-chik
plural apparatchiks also apparatchiki ˌä-pə-ˈrä(t)-chi-kē
1
: a member of a Communist apparat
2
: a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization (such as a corporation or political party.)”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apparatchik
That’s exactly what was posted above. What’s your point?
DeleteDogface, how is Bob encouraging anyone to vote for Biden?
DeleteAnonymouse 8:24pm, that is NOT “exactly what was posted above”.
Deleteyes, it is
DeleteAnonymouse 7:36pm, correct. You were not a rodent until 7:36pm.
Deletewhat?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:10pm, not it is not.
DeleteNot a rodent: apparatchik definition:
1. a member of the communist party
2. "a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization"
The entire definition:
2: a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization (such as a corporation or political party.)
Not a rodent omitted the example part of the second (2.) definition which is “corporation or political party”,
As in corporate lackey or party toady.
Not to mention if the word solely applied to communists there wouldn’t be a second (2) example.
such as — adds nothing to the definition
DeleteAre you really this stupid?
Anonymouse 9:45pm, it adds the fact that the term broadened into a generic designation for suck-ups and dependable flunkies.
DeleteNo, it gives two examples of organizations. You are making up your own embellishments.
DeleteI'm voting for Marianne Williamson because I believe that Biden's war in Ukraine, which he could have prevented, is deeply immoral.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:17 pm, if the term is solely reserved for communist party members, the plural term “organizations” would not be used and the term “corporation” as in people working for Microsoft or Ford, would not be an example.
DeleteThere would be no need to use the generic - “political party” for communist party.
Apparatchik is used as a generic term for toadies everywhere.
Dogface George,
DeleteGood luck getting 1% of the Others to vote for a Democrat. Perhaps that could have happened over two decades ago, but with today's Republican voters, Democrats can't give them what they want.
Is 10:34 the first Republican Congressperson to post on TDH?
DeleteAnonymouse 10:17pm, this is from Merriam-Webster. I added the bold print.
Delete“In the context of the definition of "apparatchik" (a term English speakers borrowed from Russian), "apparat" essentially means "party machine." An "apparatchik," therefore, is a cog in the system of the Communist Party. The term is not an especially flattering one, and its negative connotations reflect the perception that some Communists were obedient drones in the great Party machine. In current use, however, a person doesn't have to be a member of the Communist Party to be called an "apparatchik"; he or she just has to be someone who mindlessly follows orders in an organization or bureaucracy.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apparatchik#:~:text=In%20current%20use%2C%20however%2C%20a,in%20an%20organization%20or%20bureaucracy.
Anonymices are too small and trifling to call “apparats
DeleteThe Anonymices here are simply trolling you. Hard.
DeleteI’ve seen harder trolling on the Occupied Japan Collectibles site.
Delete" ... we'll offer a handful of manifestations, possibly reaching all the way back to the hapless pseudo-journalism of the 1990s."
ReplyDeleteMeaning it's cut-and-paste week.
I wonder if Norman O. Brown was using the imagery of Revelation 21:5 in his speech.
ReplyDeleteRevelation 21:5 is baloney.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:51pm, what’s your point? Whether people think scripture is true or baloney, it was and is still used as poetic imagery.
DeleteSo is Bob Dylan.
DeleteYeah. And Paul Simon.
DeleteNorman O Brown influenced Ernest Becker.
DeleteI hope they will be very happy together.
DeleteNorman was my cousin. He loved the entire New Testament, and Revelation in particular.
DeleteNorman identified as a scholar even though his mom was of non academic roots. This was both brave of him and shows the progress of society, that being scholarly is no longer an issue, scholars are now free to drink from the same fountains and purchase homes in the same neighborhoods.
DeleteBack in high school we called him “Norm”. He was pretty normal, my cousin dated him before it turned out he was secretly gay. I sold him some life insurance before he died, but it didn’t mature, admittedly it was a bit of a scam.
Anonymouse 5:41pm, because this is a comment board and I put is interesting.
DeleteIs Brown talking about an apocalyptic ending to an empire and a rebuilding?
Anonymouse 6:28pm, nice…cousins? Keeping it in the family is a mitzvah.
DeleteYou put is interesting?
DeleteBoth in and out.
DeleteYesterday Somerby pointed out how ridiculous it was for Tapper to harangue his interviewee with nonsense pestering about some undefined “security” at the border, even after she repeatedly explained that the influx of refugees from countries where we have created untenable turmoil, is not a security issue but a humanitarian issue.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, we all understand American security is not at risk from undocumented immigrants, as they have lower crime rates than natural born citizens, and they contribute mightily to our economy and culture, all while unable to take advantage of what little public safety net we provide, thusly, they are the ones taking on a risk, albeit a calculated risk considering the horrible conditions the US has created in their “countries” - obviously this planet, the land, the water, in fact belongs to no entity, but belongs to us all.
Today Somerby points out how bad Trump is and how all the other candidates besides Biden are unelectable, therefore Somerby will be voting for Biden because, even though his pre campaign polling is worrisome (in and of itself, not considering the context of how far off the election is and the coming convictions for Trump), Biden has renewed our society after the debacle of Trump, and therefore it is vital to motivate his voters.
Right? Somerby is saying do not divide us humans over helping immigrants, or by having a tiered justice system where the wealthy and the privileged get away with crimes. That is what Somerby is saying, right? Good on him.
Where does Somerby point out how bad Trump is in this essay? Please quote.
Delete5:50’s comment is sarcasm, get a grip, they are pointing out Somerby’s nonsense.
DeleteWait, is your comment sarcasm, mocking the typical Somerby fanboy nonsense retort?
DeleteIf so, apologies, and hilarious comment.
Kevin Drum:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/the-unauthorized-immigrant-population-in-the-us-has-been-flat-for-15-years/
Caesar - We could have used that yesterday, right? I think this argument is something that could be used to try to persuade 1%: “The percent of the undocumented is stable and impervious to policy, instead determined solely by demand.”
DeleteThe farmers and businessmen who bring migrants in vote for republicans.
DeleteWill Bob remind us again that “ it only takes
ReplyDeleteone juror?” If so, remember that in New
York Trump waved his right to a Jury
Trial.
Or will he remind us that If Democrats hope the trial will keep Trump from the White House, they may discover they are helping him win the GOP nomination to face a very weak and unpopular President Biden.
Delete