WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 29, 2023
And our tribe seemed to have a new bomb: In our view, it isn't hard to understand the ardor—the depth of feeling—of Donny Deutsch's reactions.
On October 30, he appeared on Deadline: White House, where he discussed his reactions and views with Nicolle Wallace. It had been three weeks since the vicious events of October 7.
As you can see by clicking this link, this is part of what he said:
DEUTSCH (10/30/23): I want to draw the line back to why Israel is in the defensive posture after being attacked because it's about antisemitism, and it's about the hate toward Jews that's now surfacing in this country.
[...]
It's so heartbreaking. I have—
Every Jew I know is calling me and is terrified for the first time in their life about being Jewish. They feel it. When you are a generation away from the Holocaust, from the annihilation of six million Jews, being Jews there's something that goes from generation to generation. And people are feeling something in their stomachs in this country that we've never felt before. And they're terrified...
The depth of Deutsch's feeling was evident all through the segment. In our view, it isn't hard to understand the depth of his feeling.
As you can see if you watch the full conversation, Deutsch described ugly behaviors by some individuals in this country which reeked of antisemitism. He said that he and other American Jews "are feeling something in their stomachs in this country that we've never felt before."
The people who call him are "terrified," he said. That doesn't mean that he would necessarily exercise perfect judgment—that he would automatically be "right"—as he expressed his various views about the situation in Israel, or in Gaza, or even in the United States.
In our view, Deutsch didn't exercise perfect judgment during this conversation with Wallace. For her part, Wallace, who is very skilled, tends to maintain and advance the dominant view of the side she's on at any particular time.
In our view, Deutsch didn't exercise perfect judgment, but no one ever does. As far as we know, no one has ever had perfect judgment. That's especially true with respect to a situation like this—with respect to a terrible, deadly, simmering war which dates to (at least) 1948, depending on where you decide to start counting.
The depth of Deutsch's feeling isn't hard to understand. For whatever it may be worth, it's entirely possible that he grew up within the cultural framework Ruth Marcus described in the Washington Post—within this allegedly limited cultural framework:
MARCUS (11/23/23): I was born in 1958, just 10 years after the establishment of Israel. The nation’s existence was new and tenuous; it was embattled, encircled by enemies committed to its destruction. It needed our support—our dimes diligently tucked into the cards we collected to plant trees in its fledgling forests.
My childhood memories are of the Six-Day War and the accompanying joy over access to the Western Wall; of the shock of the Yom Kippur War. I was walking back to synagogue to join my father for evening services that day when a neighbor stopped to ask: Had I heard the terrible news?
And, I am obliged to confess, the narrative of Israel’s founding that Jewish children of my generation were offered in Hebrew school and on trips to Israel was deeply misleading at best, tinged with anti-Palestinian bias at worst. This account utterly failed to acknowledge the expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in 1948 or consider Palestinians’ legitimate claims to a homeland. The tenor of our rabbi’s sermons, the discussions in my childhood home, were that Israel could do no wrong.
Needless to say, Israel—like every other nation; like every human institution—can in fact do wrong. At one point in his conversation with Wallace, Deutsch acknowledged that obvious fact:
WALLACE: There's such an anti-Israeli bias because their domestic politics under Netanyahu—
DEUTSCH: Netanyahu still needs to go, by the way.
WALLACE: Correct! And I think U.S. foreign policy experts think that he may not be there, but there is this real bias against the plight of Israel, even in the wake of 1400 primarily civilians being slaughtered over an eight and a half hour period—mutilated, slaughtered, raped in front of their children and husbands.
DEUTSCH: And what is Israel? Since then, been on the defensive, explaining every move they make...
Does Netanyahu need to go? Not everyone will agree. But some such disclaimer was frequently offered on blue tribe cable news programs like this one, with the conversation rapidly switching back to discussions which gave voice to a heavily "pro-Israel" point of view.
There's nothing "wrong" with adopting a "pro-Israel" point of view. It also isn't hard to understand the depth of Deutsch's feelings.
That said, it's as we noted yesterday. The claim of "anti-Israeli bias"—the claim to which Wallace referred—was, according to Deutsch, a bias on the part of "the media," with CNN and the New York Times being singled out by name.
Had Deutsch been right in spotting such "bias" on the part of "the media?" Sweeping claims of bias are easy to make, especially at times of high feeling.
That said, no specific examples were cited—not by Wallace, not by Deutsch. The claim of anti-Israel bias on the part of "the media" was simply allowed to stand.
At the time of this conversation (and others), we ourselves were especially interested in the aggressive criticism directed at college students—at students who were giving voice to a "pro-Palestinian" point of view.
Were these students expressing antisemitism? Or were they merely criticizing the Israeli government and its past actions, in much the way a person might do with respect to any government?
On Morning Joe and on Deadline: White House, the insinuations and claims of antisemitism tended to come thick and fast. Such insinuations were also directed at the presidents of some major universities—and as is typical on these blue tribe programs, there were no voices in the program's panels who spoke up to challenge or question the Standard Group Judgments which were being expressed.
A certain type of incomprehension frequently seemed to dominate these blue tribe "cable news" discussions. Why in the world would these college kids be expressing "pro-Palestinian" views?
On these programs, blue pundits generally seemed to be thoroughly puzzled as to the source of such views. Nor were any such students being asked to come on the air and explain the content and source of their views.
Those college kids, with their slogans and signs, might not be perfectly wise. Especially given their age and their standing in life, some might be just a bit clueless.
Presumably, those college kids aren't perfectly wise! In our view, neither were Joe Scarborough or Wallace or even Deutsch as they sometimes became ranting-adjacent in the course of expressing their views.
All in all, blue pundits seemed to have a new bomb to drop on the heads of a new group of Others. If someone expressed a "pro-Palestinian" view, such persons were antisemitic!
Almost surely, some of them surely may be! But how all about all the others? And how about the political problem this new name-calling has caused?
Tomorrow: The New York Times almost seems to be puzzled by a certain choice of words
College kids don’t seem to understand the nature of antisemitism and what happened in Europe during the run up to the Holocaust. That may be why they don’t make the disclaimers the various media do, that would make Jews feel safer.
ReplyDeleteI have no sense that Somerby understands or cares about Jewish or Israeli fears (justified by history). And this is the guy who is normally nothing but disclaimers.
And again, pro or anti Palestinian is not splitting along party lines so why is Somerby forcing this into a red/blue frame? Obviously, so he can bash the left.
Isn’t it time to find another topic?
Actually, studies show college kids do understand the nature of antisemitism and what happened in Europe during the run up to the Holocaust.
DeleteDeutsch specifically mentions the Holocaust as a part of his discussion, wondering if the lessons from it are being forgotten amidst a clear rise in antisemitism, both here and abroad.
DeleteCollege kids seem to understand well the nature of what's been happening in Palestine in the last 75 years. Good for them.
DeleteWe should all be careful and say “some” or “many” college kids rather than just “college kids.” Some college kids know more about certain things than others, and there is not a uniform set of opinions either.
DeleteWe all know what 10:03 meant. Jeeez.
DeleteDeutsch didn't mention the Holocaust as a part of his discussion specifically as much as tangentially or spatially considering it a part of his discussion. Or Palestine.
DeleteIt was not tangential. He mentions specific antisemitic incidents and threats and support for the terrorists at college campuses, and expresses in that context a concern that the lessons of the Holocaust are being forgotten amid a significant and documented rise in antisemitism. He does not condemn people simply for expressing sympathy for Palestinians.
DeleteHe didn't explicitly mention specific support for the terrorists nor directly express a concern the lessons of the Holocaust are being forgotten. Maybe you are confusing it with a rerun of Matlock you watched.
DeleteWhat are the lessons of the Holocaust?
Delete11:44 is that an accusation or a confession?? LOL!!!!!!
DeleteI am unable to copy and paste from the transcript, but Deutsch is speaking at about the 2:50pm mark. He specifically mentions some very clear and very ugly antisemitic insults and threats at Cornell, for example. These remarks occur where Somerby places his ellipses. Deutsch claims that at Columbia there were a “hundred faculty members who endorsed students who said the militants had the right to do what they did”, referring to Hamas. He also wondered why these pro-Palestinian rallies only began after Israel was attacked. It was also noted that “ students at Columbia University are demanding that the school do more to address antisemitism and other forms of bigotry on their campus amid a chilling rise in antisemitic and islamophobic incidents… Cornell University posted guards around the campus’ center for Jewish living after threats were posted online toward Cornell‘s Jewish students.”
ReplyDeleteIs Deutsch right? Were these the first pro-Palestinian or anti-Israeli/Netanyahu demonstrations on US campuses, prompted by the attack? There were massive anti-Netanyahu protests in Israel for months prior to October 7, but I don’t recall any reporting in the media about prior protests on US college campuses.
Also, is Deutsch right about an anti-Israeli bias in the media? Somerby apparently won’t bother to look, but if it’s true, then Deutsch may be right to point it out.
Somerby takes no clear stand, saying both sides may be right, but then concludes by claiming that rhetoric from someone like Deutsch is causing political problems (for Democrats, apparently), when in reality one wonders if the student protesters are a bit more politically aware than to be swayed by a person’s opinion on TV. The political problem amongst the pro-Palestinian protesters may be opposition to Biden administration policy. No word here about pro-Israeli protesters.
I think Somerby seems to be trying to paint everyone’s reaction with a broad brush. He showed how Obama was unjustly labeled antisemitic (on Fox News) when he expressed concern for both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
ReplyDeleteHere, I think Somerby wants you to believe that Deutsch applying the term “antisemitic” is because the students are merely expressing sympathy for the Palestinian cause, when that is not what Deutsch is doing.
“our tribe seemed to have a new bomb”
ReplyDeleteDoes Somerby truly believe that liberals have never condemned antisemitism before now?
As was once given to quoting Joan Rivers, “can we talk?”
DeleteThe partisanship that sometimes leads to expressions of dubious outrage on both sides are all over the place as the media, often quite sincerely, tries to present a balanced view. Bob feels the need to target MSNBC because he hates them, they embarrass his low/ information friends and family by talking about Trump too much.
Bob seems to have a problem with Nicole Wallace because She said something “everyone might not agree with.” We can pretty much see where he is going after that.
Bob has happily accommodated all of the Right’s attacks on Biden, following them along on their scripted program. He’s too old, etc….
ReplyDeleteAnother way is his contention that Biden “failed to reign in his son”…. a pretty dubious response to the whole Hunter thing. In effect, when MTG was hanging up her revenge porn, Bob was handing her thumb tacts.
So this new wrinkle of Hunter hitting back is interesting, and has some talking heads talking backfire. Could be, but they are now vested in the story themselves and apt to be a little embarrassed if it all falls apart. But Fox News learned, and may have to learn some more, what can happen if you screw with people who have the finical resources to answer in Court. Anyway, safe prediction: if it does backfire Bob will gloat, if Hunter wins you won’t be reading anything about it here.
Safer prediction: No matter what Bob writes, you will carp about it. It's your reason for being.
DeleteSomerby deserves criticism. You should stop trying to stifle people.
DeleteYou can criticize but cannot be criticized. Right?
DeleteWhat is the point of running around after Somerby trying to clean up his droppings? An actual person would find it demeaning.
DeleteLed pipe cinch prediction: no matter how sound a question is asked of Bob, Doggy will dodge it by questioning your right to ask it.
Delete"by questioning your right to ask it." See the thing is, that's not what he did. You're lying. As usual.
DeleteHe complained about anti-Bob carping. It is all he does here. No lie.
DeleteLet's review:
DeleteYou said I would "dodge" any sound question asked of Somerby "by questioning your right to ask it."
Mike L said, "You're lying."
You responded: "He complained about anti-Bob carping." But this, of course, is a "dodge." The issue was whether I questioned your "right to ask questions," which of course I never did. For some reason you won't admit that you made up this absurd accusation.
Then, you doubled-down by saying, "[Complaining about anti-Bob carping] is all he does here. No lie." But anyone can just skim down a few inches in this comment thread to see a couple of posts where I'm talking about GDP growth and Somerby's overall themes, and these posts were posted BEFORE the comment you made here (8:48).
So I think Mike L might have you pegged.
Back in the day, you could criticize Mussolini and his regime without being called anti-Catholic. Netanyahu recently reiterated the statement that Israel is the Jewish state. No wonder that there is some confusion that makes those opposed to Israel policy appear to be antisemitic. Or, in some misguided cases meld the two. And of course, antisemitism will naturally be anti Israel.
ReplyDeleteMany Israelis oppose their government policy without being labeled self-hating Jews. This is not your grandfather's Israel. Their own highest court (as well as every international court, the UN, and Red Cross) have labeled the West Bank settlements illegal. They should be condemned. Norman Finkelstein, an expert on Israel, recently remarked in an interview that the organizers of pro Palestinian demonstrations in Staten Island and Manhattan included Jewish members. Are they self- hating Jews?
This conflict is not appropriately divided into cheering sections.
"And of course, antisemitism will naturally be anti Israel."
DeleteActually, antisemitism is naturally pro Israel.
The Nazis had a plan to expel all European Jews to Madagascar. Palestine is just as good a place.
The Nazis had a plan to expel all European Jews to Madagascar.
DeleteBut then they decided to build ovens instead.
What Hamas has done is illegal too.
DeleteDiC - 3Q GDP growth just revised up to 5.2% annualized!
ReplyDeleteI think one of Somerby's overall themes in his essays may be that none of us have perfect judgment. This call for humility is difficult, emotionally, for any of us to hear - we all think we're as infallible as the Pope thinks he is.
ReplyDeleteWe live in an imperfect world. That doesn’t mean we must go around shuffling and bowing and pretending to know nothing while never taking responsibility for anything. None of us thinks we’re infallible, including the Pope.
DeleteI believe the Pope is infallible when making an official declaration about faith or morals. Otherwise, no. I am Korbi.
DeleteThe doctrine of infallibility was overturned.
DeleteI have more confidence in the Pope than he has in himself.
Delete“Deutsch” is the German word for “German”.
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