THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2023
Teach your parents well: Is Bernie Sanders "pro-Palestinian?"
At the New York Times, it seems that they may not be sure.
Today's editions feature a long guest essay by Sanders about a high-profile situation. Online, the headline on his essay says this:
Bernie Sanders: Justice for the Palestinians and Security for Israel
It sounds like Bernie is even-handed—like he's seeking a world which would be better for each major population.
Online, that's what the headline says and suggests. In print editions, though, the headline says this:
Palestinians Must Have Hope for a Brighter Future
That headline may perhaps convey a different impression.
We spent some time last evening watching one of our favorite YouTube videos. It's Kathy Mattea and Suzy Bogguss singing Teach Your Children.
You can watch it by clicking right here.
The video comes from the Ryman Auditorium, way back in 1995. We especially like the video because Mattea and Bogguss take such obvious pleasure, from beginning to end, in the chance to be singing together.
Mattea and Bogguss were singing a hippie era anthem in the original home of the Grand Ole Opry. Last night, we puzzled over the fascinating, intertwined lyrics to the song's second verse.
The second verse of this iconic song features two intertwined voices. The lead voice, Voice One, sings this:
And you of tender years
Can't know the fears
Your elders grew by.
And so please help them with your youth
They seek the truth
Before they can die.
"Teach your parents well," the two voices then sing. and they continue in unison.
At any rate, that's what Voice One sings. Along the way, the second voice—Voice Two—has been singing something which goes roughly like this:
Can you hear? Will you care?
Can you see you must be free
To teach your children
What you believe in
Make a world
That we can live in.
The intertwining of the voices makes the content and meaning of these lines a bit hard to nail down. That said, at the end of the intermingling, the second voice seems to say this:
We can live in TEACH!
In our view, Sanders's essay seems to be seeking a way to build "a world we can live in." Others may read the piece differently, of course—and there's never an ultimate way to prove whose reading is actually "right."
At any rate, a final thought:
In recent weeks, we've watched certain adult voices on cable news programs attack These [Imperfect] College Students Today. We've watched these puzzled parents throw these children into one big box—condemn them as a group.
Presumably, those elders are doing the best they can. That said, we've often thought of an ancient plea as we've watched those students getting slagged.
It's a plea to those of tender years:
Teach your parents well, it says. Please help them with your youth!
Teach Your Children is not a "hippie anthem" but a commercially successful song by Crosby Stills Nash & Young, a popular musical group of the 60s-70s, released in 1970.
ReplyDeleteSomerby never mentions the composer and original artists who made that song a hit. That is theft of their material, which is not part of the public domain and definitely not the folk song Somerby portrays it as.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkaKwXddT_I
Why does Somerby think that the artistic efforts of other people are his to blend into his own screeds without attribution or acknowledgement? I greatly prefer the original to his nostalgic 1995 revival. And the group itself was part of rock, not country music, so the addition of the Grand Ole Opry to Somerby's legacy is inappropriate and would have been rejected by the people Somerby calls "hippies" in 1970 when the album appeared.
Perhaps Somerby is making some sort of statement about it being OK to engage in misappropriation of all sorts, or perhaps he is too senile to recall the original version, or perhaps he is just too lazy to look stuff up. Whatever his excuse, this is intellectual property theft.
"For their famous recording, click here."
DeleteToo little, too late.
I doubt Crosby Stills Nash & Young would have supported Palestine (and assembled Arab nations) against the Israelis back in their day. Maybe Somerby's Grand Ole Opry group would have done so, but maybe not. They have been recruited to give an endorsement to Somerby's pro-Palestinian views too, but it seems likely they might not hold that opinion either. They might not even agree with Bernie, but Somerby's juxtaposition of their performance with Bernie's implies they are all on the same page. Why can't Somerby clearly state and own his own opinions? Didn't they teach that at Harvard?
Delete"Why can't Somerby clearly state and own his own opinions?"
DeleteYou mean like in a 5th grade book report?
Crosby, Stills and Nash were pretty overtly political, publicly opposing the Vietnam War and identifying with (liberal) political causes in general.
DeleteThey all expressed support for Bernie Sanders in 2016.
Also, Kathy Mattea is a liberal country musician. Her website talks about her association with Al Gore and her environmental activism combating climate change, among other things. (https://www.mattea.com/speaking-teaching)
There may be a connection between Mattea’s politics and her singing a CSN song.
Famously, the pedal steel guitar in the CSN&Y version is by Jerry Garcia, another non-hippie who fronted a “popular music group” in the 60’s and 70’s.
DeleteAnd that pedal steel guitar is straight out of the country music tradition.
DeleteNo self-respecting hippie would perform at the Grand Ole Opry. Jerry Garcia was definitely a hippie, before he became a phenomenon and icon for other aging hippies. See, Wikipedia agrees:
Delete"He is best known as the founder and longtime lead guitarist (1965-1995) of the band the Grateful Dead. Garcia was seen as an icon of the Hippie counterculture of the 1960s. He was considered an almost mythic hero to his fans, called deadheads."
Damn. Irony is dead.
DeleteThere are no cues available in internet comments to suggest whether you were being ironic or stupid. If you don't know how to signal irony, you should stick to saying true things.
DeleteJerry Garcia, were he still alive, would object to you calling him a star of only the 60s & 70s, given that he was still performing shortly before his death.
"However, it has been said as they left the stage of Soldier Field on July 9th, 1995, after playing their final gig of summer tour (and the last of their career) Jerry turned to rhythm guitarist Bob Weir and said “Always a hoot, always a hoot.”
Somerby needs to cite his sources and give credit when he uses other people's intellectual property. Artists, musicians, writers, actors, all feel strongly about this. It is disrespectful to treat them the way Somerby does. Perhaps Somerby's attitude comes from being a standup comedian -- they are rumored to routinely steal each other's jokes -- but other artists and performers do not feel that way. Witness the major plagiarism lawsuits over music and lyrics, taken very seriously by the artists and by the courts.
It isn't up to Somerby to decide whether another artist would care or not about his borrowing. When he grabs lyrics and songs and attributes intentions to them that were not expressed by the original artist, he is behaving like Trump, who stole paintings from the White House (not just highly classified documents) and grabs rock songs for his rallies without permission.
This is wrong to do and Somerby should take it more seriously. He has begun adding a perhaps-ironic "Full Disclosure" to his essays, but that is long overdue and should be respectful, not ironic, especially of folks like Crosby Stills Nash and Young and Jerry Garcia. Somerby was in the business of teaching young people to respect art and music, but now I wonder whether he made any attempt to do that when he was teaching, given his casual attitude toward such theft now.
"Irony is dead" belongs in the same junk heap as "can't you detect sarcasm" and "can't you take a joke?"
DeleteThese are ways of camouflaging an opinion, instead of stating it directly, and they are phrases that cowards hide behind.
Why would Somerby refer to CSNY as "a popular rock band" instead of the icons they were, in their own right without Garcia?
Does anyone think those nice ladies who "sampled" Teach Your Children to create some sort of round or counterpoint message of their own, had any respect for the accomplishments of the group that made that song a huge hit with their own message?
I read the comments to the concert video Somerby linked to. None of them caught on that the ladies had added their own lyrics embedded in the harmonies. That makes this a form of putting words into the mouths of the original Croby Stills Nash & Young, that will be assumed to be theirs, not something from the ladies singing their own version. That confusion is the problem.
DeleteHave you considered the possibility that you’re a nutcase? (No irony intended.)
DeleteMore attacks, nothing substantive.
DeleteHave you considered the possibility that the attacks are well-justified?
DeleteShorter version: it would have been simple curtesy to have mentioned the song was written by Graham Nash, and certainly not hard intimation to access. But Bob (a draft dodger himself) could not miss the opportunity to patronize the “hippie” left.
DeleteI believe if you look you will see he called it a "hippie-era anthem", not a "hippie anthem". Do we all understand the difference?
DeleteNo
DeleteWould that make a Dean Martin song a hippie-era anthem too? CSNY were of the era but is a 1995 country version of one of their songs still hippie-era or is it then country-era? I rule out disco and disco-era.
Delete
Delete"Hippie-era anthems" are songs popular during the hippie movement but not strictly about hippie themes. Technically, it would include a Dean Martin song if the song was also an anthem.
No More Mister Nice Blog posted this last week:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwwy7yxGuM
“The Star-Spangled Banner” is an anthem.
DeleteDogface, our resident Sisyphus, forever stuck trying to persuade others, yet always failing.
DeleteWe didn't have any "anthems". That is some dumb shit invented by people trying to rationalize to themselves what was happening.
Deleteanon 7:00, the struggle against the dark mud of unreason is certainly toilsome, but thank god there are some, like dogface, who make the effort.
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Typical that Somerby prefers the jumbled mess with an unclear message to the wiser words of the original song.
ReplyDeleteI don’t subscribe to NYT, but I expect that whatever Bernie said was good.
ReplyDeleteBernie Sanders may appeal to Somerby because he seems to be bothsides-ing the horrific attack on Israel by Palestinians on 10/7.
ReplyDeleteWhat would it be like in the US if the poor and underclass people allied themselves with Russia and took up arms, murdering the middle class in their beds? Would we say that they are misunderstood and should be provided with a chance for happier lives, giving them everything on their lists of demands, or would we suppress such an attack with brutal police action and the national guard?
Clearly, Palestinians do not consider themselves neighbors of Israelis, nor do they consider themselves part of Israel, when they engage in unimaginable violence against others. That destroys any chance of peace and makes them a problem to be dealt with, not people to be assimilated into the broader success that Israelis have made of their land (without Palestinian help).
Somerby has said several times that he prefers Bernie as a presidential candidate, but if this is the statesmanship Bernie would have provided, I think we are better off that he never won the nomination. Pie-in-the-sky is not a viable solution.
When Somerby asks whether Bernie favors Palestinians (despite being Jewish himself), Somerby seems to be focused on who is taking which side in a conflict, not on problem solving needed to resolve a difficult conflict. Somerby may be preaching cooperation but his attempt to figure out whether Bernie is even-handed or not, suggests he himself is taking sides.
One again, Somerby has attached some personal meaning to a song but he doesn't bother explaining how that song relates to anything going on today.
Some writers think their readers have enough brains to figure some things out for themselves.
DeleteThere is no coherent connection to be “figured out”.
DeleteThose writers are wrong.
DeleteIn your case, yes.
DeleteI am a nutcase.
Deleteanon 11:25 - Your statement that TDH has "said several times that he prefers Bernie as a presidential candidate" is blatantly false. I'll eat my shorts if you can cite one instance when he ever said such thing. Even allowing for the apparent circumstance that you are a lunatic.
DeleteSomerby had a good time at a concert once in 1995 and that's going to solve the latest Palestinian-instigated war?
ReplyDeleteErecting a Jewish state in Palestine was a mistake.
ReplyDeletePalestinians attacking Israel has always been a mistake.
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ReplyDeleteFor more info visit…………..
Google pay 390$ reliably my last paycheck was $55000 working 10 hours out of consistently on the web. My increasingly youthful kinfolk mate has been averaging 20k all through continuous months and he works around 24 hours reliably. I can’t trust how direct it was once I attempted it out. This is my essential concern…:) GOOD LUCK
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Bob posts a nice song and commenters figure a way to carp about it. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!
ReplyDeleteOnce again, here to attack other commenters, not address the topic at hand.
DeleteIsn’t it weird how mice can dish it out relentlessly, but whine and suck their thumbs when they themselves are called out?
DeleteNo one was whining or thumb sucking. They simply mentioned that you never discuss the topic at hand and are only here to attack others. It's a fact.
DeleteDoggie, if you want to say Bob going on and on about this song but not mentioning who wrote it is OK with you, I guess it’s OK with me. Really, it’s just another example of Bob’s incompetence.
DeleteBernie says, "Palestinians Must Have Hope for a Brighter Future" Yet, Palestinians are not behaving in a way that iwill lead to a brighter future. A brighter future is in their hands. All they have to do is stop making war on Israel and use their resources to build a prosperous community.
ReplyDeleteBut, what kind of future does "From the River to the Sea" hope for? Even If they succeeded in eliminating all of Israel and killing all the Jews there, they would still b e ruled by a militaristic group who spend resources on military and who do little to build a better future for the Palestinians.
Israeli Jews should emigrate.
DeleteWhy should Israeli Jews emigrate? They have their own country. Unlike the Palestinians who no one wants around because they are always attacking people or whining about their plight.
DeleteActually, anyone who wants to can use the Search function to see posts where I discuss substantive issues. Unfortunately, we can’t perform that search for you because you’re a timid, hit-and-hide Anonymouse.
DeletePlease post the last substantive thing you said on any issue -- with the date.
DeleteSorry, wrong thread.
Delete"Unlike the Palestinians who no one wants around because they are always attacking people or whining about their plight."
DeleteHow do you tell them apart from the Others?
3:46, thank you! Enough with the ignorant trolls here to disrupt discourse.
Delete8:16,
DeleteThe Others are the ones waving the Confederate flag.
And chanting "Jews will not replace us."
DeleteIn our view, Sanders's essay seems to be seeking a way to build "a world we can live in." Others may read the piece differently, of course—and there's never an ultimate way to prove whose reading is actually "right."”
ReplyDelete“Right”, like those others who called Obama an antisemite and said he should put up a “kill the Jews” sign in his yard?
There’s nothing wrong with looking at both sides in a conflict and desiring civil discourse, and assigning potential “right” to both sides, but sometimes it can look like dithering, especially in the face of discourse or conduct that clearly merits a clear condemnation.
Related to Somerby's essay yesterday about why no one is distance-analyzing Trump and calling him crazy, the blog No More Mister Nice Blog speculates that it is Stephen Miller who needs to be analyzed for craziness, since he is the author of so much of what Trump has been saying lately:
ReplyDelete"I might believe that Trump's "grandiosity and dread of exposure" inspired this dehumanizing language if I thought these words were Trump's own. It seems far more likely that a speechwriter -- almost certainly Stephen Miller -- added “vermin” and “the blood of our country” to Trump's speeches. (The phrase "poisoning the blood of our country" came from an interview, but in a speech last month, Trump said of immigrants, “It’s the blood of our country; what they’re doing is destroying our country.”) Maybe Miller told Trump that he was trying to make him sound like Hitler, maybe he didn't. (The idea that the historically illiterate ex-president "cannot help knowing" these are Hitleresque words is preposterous.)
So perhaps the person who's crossed into "new terrain" is Miller, not Trump. Miller would almost certainly be a top adviser in a second Trump administration -- possibly the top adviser. He could be "Trump's brain," the way Karl Rove was George W. Bush's. If Leonard Glass and other credentialed folks want to analyze some political psyches from a distance, maybe they should consider the possibility that Miller is the one who's lost all restraints on his cruelty. Trump might be a Hitlerian monster in a second term not because he has fewer inner restraints (did he ever have any, apart from a sense of self-preservation?), but because his advisers feel nothing constrains them anymore. I think Trump is too old to change, but Miller may just be coming into his own -- a monster in full."
https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2023/11/maybe-we-should-be-distance-analyzing.html
Trump mindlessly reads off a teleprompter and then, just like the overused and phony SNL character breaking, will re read the last sentence and then mug - often a weird smile like he’s holding in his poop - and say something nonsensical like “cmon, amirite?” with the aesthetics of a standup comedian but without the content. Trump has little clue what he is actually saying, it’s all performative.
DeleteThe crowd goes wild, and you realize, these people are really damaged and suffering, to be so amused by a used car salesman.
Hippies were never anti-war. They were flower children who thought everyone should get along (except with narcs) but mostly took drugs and ignored the world. They were not at all involved in politics or changing society or social justice or anything that required effort of them. Peace to hippies meant live and let live, not end the war -- it was the political young people of the SDS and similar activist anti-war groups who were against Vietnam. Hippies were apathetic in the extreme, focused only on music and drinking wine and taking drugs. It is a joke to talk about hippies as precursors to today's angry young people who are defending the palestinians. Hippies had dropped out of school, work and society, and were focused only on their own subjective altered experience. They especially didn't vote.
ReplyDeleteOldsters who called anyone with longish hair a "hippies" were not bothering to examine the subculture very closely.
“Hippies were never anti-war.”
DeleteI think you are very much mistaken about this.
The police certainly called us “hippies” when they beat us with batons during peace marches.
Delete3:35 as a contemporary of that group with a draft number I can say unequivocally that you are FOS.
DeleteThey committed the same mistake -- lumping all young people together. If you read an actual book about the counterculture of the 60s (something from sociology), you will find the distinction. It also existed among those of us who lived in that time period. Police didn't beat up the hippies in the park dancing to psychedelicd music stoned out of their minds. Police beat up the peace activists at marches and rallies, carrying signs and yelling slogans.
DeleteThe serious hippies (not the weekend ones) went on to harder drugs and some ODed on heroin. Others grew up and went back to school and work. The political activists in CA (where I went to school) formed the Peace and Freedom Party and continued their activism as adults. Some joined the Weathermen and Symbionese Liberation Front and become outlaws and domestic terrorists. Others went to work for non-profit organizations, or like Tom Hayden, ran for office and became mainstream. Others got tired of being poor, grew up and went to work and started families.
These are two entirely different groups of 60s young people, taking paths that did not overlap. Re-watch Easy Rider and note the scene where the motorcycle riders with their anti-war stickers interact with the commune of hippies engaged in skinny dipping and orgies while on LSD. Hippies were apolitical. The political types despised the hippies of that time period.
The police are not the best authority on what kids were doing in the 60s.
Notice the distinction between hippies and protesters in this Britannica article:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/1960s-counterculture
Here’s a thought experiment: Suppose you were a hippie in 1969 with a low draft number. Think you might possibly have been against the war?
DeleteAnd isn’t it funny that when you see hippies depicted in the movies or tv they’re always wearing the peace sign?
DeleteWho should I believe? Dogface or Encyclopedia Brittanica?
DeleteHistory is about what happened. It is not about applying reason to figure out what Dogface thinks should have happened, even via thought expts.
DeleteAccording to the Brittanica article, “One of [the hippies’] most famous slogans was “Make love, not war!”
DeleteEmphasis on make love. Why are you arguing about this?
DeleteGeorge is right.
DeleteGeorge is full of shit. He could have googled it but he’d rather make things up.
DeleteYou ever listen to Country Joe’s’ “I Feel Like I’m Fixin’ to Die Rag” or Jimi Hendrix playing the national anthem? Those hippies were against the war.
DeleteWe were against the Vietnam war. Not all, but a lot of us. What do you think made Nixon so paranoid?
DeleteI was there.
I would not say that the subset of hippies pushing to drop out of society were apolitical, they were reacting to a burgeoning right wing that was destroying the progress of the New Deal and post war liberalism, and had engaged in impactful persecution of leftists though strategies like the red scare. Those hippies saw electoral politics as impotent, and were attempting a movement to bypass politics but still lead to progress.
DeleteIt was in large part a rejection of the stultification of thought and the forced conformity coming out of the 50's. The insane nuclear arms race pushed by our insane military leaders. The pointless "police action" in Vietnam after the hideous experience in Korea.
DeleteHippies were self-indulgent, not promoting a “movement”.
DeleteTHE ANTI-war movement had people of all ages. They were activists not hippies.
DeleteWho gives a damn who Bernie supports?
ReplyDeleteA Reuters article has these key points
ReplyDeleteSummary
-- Putin has used crisis to criticise United States
-- Issue helps him push new world order agenda
-- Russia seen as taking more pro-Palestinian stance
-- Moscow is offering services as a peacemaker
-- Russia-Israeli ties have worsened
I suspect that Bernie's article is a way of following Moscow's lead.
Don't worry about Bernie or Palestine -- Moscow is trying to get the US to stop funding and supporting Ukraine. One way to do that is to make the cost of supporting Israel more expensive, which is why Hamas attacked and is continuing its hostilities despite Palestinian suffering in Gaza.
Delete3:46 nails it.
Delete"When Democratic strategists appear on MSNBC or CNN, they often lay out a long list of reasons for reelecting President Joe Biden in 2024. But veteran actor/director and liberal activist Rob Reiner didn't recite a list of Biden policies during his November 21 appearance on MSNBC's "The Beat." Instead, Reiner emphasized that the 2024 presidential election comes down to one thing: Preventing "fascist" GOP frontrunner Donald Trump from becoming a full-fledged dictator.
ReplyDeleteReiner told host Ari Melber, "Every time we have a presidential election, they always say: This is the most important election of our life…. This one actually is…. You have one candidate, Trump, who actually tells you he's going to govern like an authoritarian. He says it. It's not a mystery. And you have another guy who has been there, knows how to run the government, believes in the Constitution, believes in democracy, the rule of law. And you've gotta make a choice."
https://www.alternet.org/trump-project-2025-washington-post/
Gosh, I wonder who Bernie Sanders supports? I shouldn't have to wonder, but Bernie sat out the election between Hillary and Trump in 2016, out of pique, so maybe he is rooting for Trump again in 2024.
Bernie’s support of Hillary, once he bowed out, was at an acceptable level, he even finally said Wikileaks was nonsense. Trouble is he stayed in too long.
DeleteBernie Sanders supports Corby.
ReplyDeleteLuckily for him, Sanders is unaware of Corby's existence.
DeleteCorby supports Sanders.
DeleteThe Palestinians are unworthy of such a fine neighbor the State of Israel. By living there, Jewish people are doing the Palestinians a favor. But those ingrates don’t appreciate this favor. It would serve them right if the Jews were to emigrate.
ReplyDeleteI can't tell whether this comment is sarcasm. But having Israel next door could indeed be a great benefit to the Palestinians. A peaceful Palestinian people could take advantage of a technically advanced neighbor to move their own technology into the 21st century. Training children in engineering is more conducive to prosperity than training children in hatred.
DeleteThese neighbors will have to address deeper issues related to a long history of violent conflict, territorial disputes, and cultural and religious tensions before embarking on this suggested era of prosperity thanks to Israel's largesse and technological and moral superiority.
DeleteProminent American government officials believe if Israel killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn't enough. What do you think, David? What is your number of dead childred? 10,000? 50,000? How many dead children is enough for the morally superior Israel to kill? Maybe we can kill them all and we wouldn't have to worry about them ever again.
Delete@12:52 AM
DeleteAlas, David, just like everyone else in the world for thousands of years, they despise your totally peaceful tribe for being successful.
So Jewish Israelis should emigrate to America, where they’ll be appreciated, and leave the ungrateful Palestinians behind.
DeleteIn the US Putin's agent Comrade Sanders will get 'em. He is envious of their being peaceful and successful. It's hopeless.
DeleteI agree. There should be justice for the Palestinians and security for Israel. The current leadership of both sides does not agree with this, especially Hamas.
ReplyDeleteEspecially the State of Israel.
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ReplyDelete