FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2024
Not a word from the New York Times: Yesterday morning, Morning Joe arrived at the topic at 6:02 sharp.
Thanks to the invaluable Internet Archive, we're now able to link you to the videotape of that detailed discussion.
The discussion started with this:
SCARBOROUGH (2/1/24): Talk about a bipartisan issue, this is a crazy New York story, Mike Barnicle.
You have illegal immigrants in New York that beat the hell out of cops, they get sent to jail, they get released the next day. The next day!
As he spoke, Scarborough displayed the front page of the New York Daily News.
Why did he have to display that paper? Below, we'll get unto that.
Barnicle fleshed out more of the facts, as they were known at the time. Perhaps most strikingly, the violent assailants—who represent no one but themselves—had been released back into the streets. They had been released without bail.
The videotape which Morning Joe played shows a group of as many as 12 young men beating two police offers in a very serious, very dangerous manner. For the record, we don't know if they were "illegal" immigrants, or if they were in this country as a result of legal asylum requests.
By 6:04 a.m., Al Sharpton had joined yesterday's discussion. As you can see by clicking this link, he too denounced the decision to release these young men.
SHARPTON: Even for those of us who have fought for reform...
I'm right around the corner from where this happened. So to have people just walking around being able to do this is not reform and is not progressive. We need to deal with how we handle policing in a way that police, nor citizens, are victims of people that are reckless. And we need to be mature about that.
Later in the day, Governor Kathy Hochul (D-NY) announced that she favored deportation for these assailants, assuming they can still be found. That said:
To this day, there hasn't been a single word about any of this in the New York Times.
Yesterday morning, it was on the front page of the Daily News. It was on the front page of the Murdoch-owned New York Post. But if you subscribe to the New York Times, none of this has happened!
On the other hand, if you watch the Fox News Channel, as millions of friends and neighbors do, you've seen that ugly videotape again and again and again. Updates were offered all last night. Those updates continued this morning.
You've also heard, again and again, that these assailants were released without bail. You've heard this everywhere you look, except on our own tribe's primetime "cable news" shows, and except in the New York Times.
This morning, starting at 6:50, the Morning Joe panel discussed this ugly event again. Reverend Sharpton was there once again, along with the segment's principal guest, chyroned thusly:
CHIEF JOHN CHELL, NYPD CHIEF OF PATROL
"I challenge my progressive friends to step up and say this is not what we condone," Reverend Sharpton said. "Don't act like we're anti-cop. We're anti bad cop." (Those quotes may be slightly imperfect.)
Yesterday morning, Scarborough displayed the front page of the Daily News, and he did so for a reason. To this day, there hasn't bene a single world about this event in the upper-class, blue New York Times.
In fairness, the Times is no longer a local newspaper in the way it once was. There is no "New York" section today. More and more, the New York Times and the Washington Post have gone fully national.
That said:
Even with the governor on board, Times subscribers haven't seen a single word about this widely-discussed event. So it goes within our tribe's blue bayou, as this year's fateful presidential campaign takes its start.
So it goes inside our blue bubble. So it goes inside our blue Babel.
So it goes inside our blue silo. So it goes inside our aggressively segregated, pure baby blue, blue tribe tribal lands.
So it goes as our blue cable stars keep us barefoot and clueless. As they maintain their "viewer maintenance" cable news diet. As they keep feeding us the stories and the topics we like, thereby building ratings and corporate profits and keeping their own salaries high.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep. Because we're all just a bunch of people, we blues are strongly inclined to be just as tribal, and just as human, as the others are.
Over the course of the past dozen years, our tribal judgment has often been extremely poor. Will we be able to save ourselves? As November approaches and dreams of trials fade, we're left with little time.
Our judgment is often quite poor. Last night, Alex Wagner, followed by Lawrence O'Donnell, largely gamboled and played as they reassured and entertained us with a succession of baby blue topics.
It makes us feel good when we're fed tribally pleasing porridge. It also keeps moving us closer to a potential November debacle.
On this newest morning, we come to you with two signs of hope. For starters, we offer hope in the form of the discussions we've seen on Morning Joe in the past two days.
We were especially glad to see Al Sharpton lending his voice to the consensus stated in this those discussions.
He's smarter than the average bear, and he has a superb sense of humor. That said, Sharpton and Hochul are both on board, but not yet a word in the Times!
We'll suggest that you watch yesterday morning's discussion, courtesy of the Internet Archive. We can't link you to this morning's sequel yet.
We can link you to our second cause for hope. We refer to a superb blog post by that self-same Kevin Drum.
Two days ago, we thought Kevin had essentially given up—had lost the will to exercise judgment—when he offered this weirdly snarky post about the problems which have arisen in Fulton County, Georgia.
Oddly, he offered no evidence for the stance he took. He blew right past the various progressive legal analysts who have said that an actual problem may well be lurking there.
We almost thought that he'd given up, had decided to accept the comforts of pure Storyline. But this morning, we clicked over to his site and we found a very clearly stated post.
Drum's new post starts this way, headline included:
Why aren’t Democrats steamrolling Republicans?
Ezra Klein asks today, "Why haven't the Democrats completely cleaned the Republicans' clock?"
Actually it's Ruy Teixeira who asked that question, and it's one I share. I mean, Republicans have turned into complete loons. Democrats should have been able to build a huge and enduring lead over the past decade. Why haven't they?
As Jon Lovitz said on Saturday Night Live, almost forty years ago, "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!"
How is it possible that our blue tribe could end up losing to Donald J. Trump all over again? We'll suggest that you read every word of Kevin's clearly written post. That said, he ends with this:
DRUM (2/1/24): Research suggests that Fox News generates about 3% more votes for Republicans than they'd otherwise get. In a 50-50 electorate, that's a lot. And it doesn't help that Democrats make themselves so easy to attack. From "Defund the Police" to extreme softness on the border to defending trans girls competing in high school sports, liberals have been pushing the boundaries of social conventions pretty hard. That scares ordinary people and costs votes.
There's probably not a lot we can do about race. Some people are racists and that's that. We just have to fight them. But we could probably tone down the cultural leftism and adopt moderately more populist economic policies. It wouldn't take a lot. But it might make enough of a difference to sink the Republicans for the coming decade.
We disagree with only one point.
We've long since recommended replacing the key word in that second paragraph with more precise formulations. That said, and sadly enough, it's surely true that "some people are racists."
Sadly enough, that's true. It isn't necessarily true that the way to build a better world is "to fight them." We'd recommend pitying such lost souls first, while also praising the various people, including those within the red tribe, who have moved forward into the future when it comes to certain issues of race.
(More on such red tribe people to come.)
Some fights can't be won by fighting! When it comes to matters of race, the performative value can be very high when we stage our fights, but the gains which accrue to the Fox News Channel have often been stunningly real.
(Kevin cites "defund the police." The list moves forward from there.)
At any rate, so it stands, on this day of the lord, as the general campaign takes its start. Just as Kevin says, our tribe routinely insists on making itself easy to attack.
We do so through our performative conduct. And yes, this takes us to the concept of "woke," a topic we'll touch on tomorrow.
Tomorrow, we're going to pleasure ourselves with a report about a major figure in the NFL. Almost surely, our specific topic will end up having nothing to do with the outcome of this year's campaign.
Our specific topic will be separate from the campaign. That said, our discussion may help us think about two major topics:
Storyline and Woke
Our tribe insists there's no such things as woke. As is true of all human tribes, our tribe can be very silly.
That doesn't mean that we're bad people. It does mean that we're people people, pretty much like everyone else.
It does mean that we're tribal people. It means we frequently can't see ourselves in the way the others do.
This is the way to lose votes, Kevin correctly says. His post is very clearly composed, and it lands right on the money.
We have a dream for the coming year, and this is what it is:
We want Kevin to be a national treasure. At this very, very late hour, we want him to save the world.
This afternoon: Judge Jeanine goes off
Tomorrow: The attractions of Storyline and Woke, NFL / ESPN variants
In summation: Scarborough held up the Daily News; Sharpton supported every word. The governor of the state of New York came out for deportation of the assailants (who we suggest you should pity).
Our tribe hasn't heard a word about this. Your friends and your neighbors all have.
ReplyDeleteHad NYC defunded the police this would've never happened.
Democrats are too good. The deplorables hate everything good. They need to be re-programmed, like I was.
I am Forby.
Genuine.
DeleteIs this fun for you?
DeleteNo, but I earn thousands of dollars doing it.
DeleteGlad to hear it, because it sure isn’t fun for any of the rest of us.
DeleteCecelia said I’m a hoot.
DeleteRest assured, 11:48 AM, that sufferers will find comfort and will be rewarded, and the wicked destroyed, in the Kingdom of Heaven.
DeleteI am Rorby.
Genuine.
Deleteand a hoot.
DeleteCecelia is 178cm of vibrant conservative womanhood.
Delete‘For the record, we don't know if they were "illegal" immigrants, or if they were in this country as a result of legal asylum requests.’ says Somerby.
ReplyDeleteI get this from a story from 24 minutes ago:
“It's believed that the 14 men involved are migrants, and most, if not all, are believed to be residing in the city shelter system in housing for migrants.”
https://abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-crime-officers-attacked-time-square-nypd/14380425/
Are they migrants or not? Are they asylum seekers or not? Illegal immigrants?
Wouldn’t it be a good idea to ascertain the facts before demanding that MSNBC or the times put the story on endless loop, with demands for deportation?
Toni Stern has died. There's no Wikipedia article about her, but she was a poet. She also wrote the words to some popular songs, including Carole King's "It's Too Late".
ReplyDeleteWhy are you doing this?
DeleteShe deserves to be remembered.
DeleteGod no, not Toni Stern! Please god, take anyone but her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteAnonymouse 6:01pm, it’s too late.
Delete“the assailants (who we suggest you should pity).”
ReplyDeleteSure Bob.
“No people are uninteresting.
Their fate is like the chronicle of planets.”
—said Yevtushenko, one of Somerby’s faves.
Yeah, those illegals are interesting, but their chronicle ends with the razor wire and the bullets at the border, or backbreaking labor on farms and in meat packing plants or on 120 degree rooftops. So be it.
Maybe those assailants were ruthless gang members.
ReplyDeleteMaybe their brains had been damaged by lead or other pollutants. Maybe possibilities for a decent life had been foreclosed by colonialism and capitalism.
DeleteIf they had been ruthless gang members, the cops would have been injured, but they were not, despite excited claims about head kicking.
DeleteImagine people believing what they read in a police report in 2024.
DeleteSMDH.
DiC - Dec payroll report - 353K new jobs! Holy Moly!
ReplyDeleteJust wait till David understands that the economy is good. He’ll explain that it’s result of President Trump’s wise conservative policies.
DeleteBiden’s campaign theme:
Delete“Let the good times roll!”
Wage growth was fairly strong in January. Average hourly earnings rose by 4.5% year over year in January, which surpasses the last few 4.3% year-over-year increases.
DeleteDiC will have to avert his eyes.
Yes, that's good economic news. OTOH...
Delete"The annual inflation rate for the United States was 3.4% for the 12 months ending December, compared to the previous rate of 3.1%, according to U.S. Labor Department data published on Jan. 11, 2024. The next inflation update is scheduled for release on Feb. 13"
BLS claims 353K payrolls were added.
DeleteHowever, the household survey employment fell by 31k in January and by 683k in December.
"Perhaps the most “glaring issue” with Friday’s data comes from the adjusted household survey, rather than the survey of employers used to produce the headline payroll number, according to Jeff Schulze, the head of economic and market strategy at ClearBridge Investments. That data continues to tell a “very different story” than the headline numbers, he wrote in a research note.
“Over the past year, the household survey has averaged less than 150,000 jobs per month than the establishment survey,” he said. “This divergence bears watching as the household survey historically has been more accurate at inflection points indicating job growth may be less impressive than it currently appears.”"
https://www.barrons.com/livecoverage/january-jobs-report-today/card/blockbuster-employment-growth-masks-some-weakness-rEzA08GGIMHJgTrY62ps
So working wages increased more than inflation, and you are saying that is bad news, Dick in Cal?
DeleteNew (second) jobs (at Amazon warehouses)!
DeleteHoly Moly!
DiC - Here s a tip: Inflation is whipped, and everybody knows it's time to start complaining about deficits instead. (And frankly, soon it will be time to start *doing* something about deficits.)
DeleteGeorge -- the Fed doesn't know that inflation is whipped.
Deletethe Committee remains highly attentive to inflation risks.
In support of its goals, the Committee decided to maintain the target range for the federal funds rate at 5-1/4 to 5-1/2 percent. In considering any adjustments to the target range for the federal funds rate, the Committee will carefully assess incoming data, the evolving outlook, and the balance of risks. The Committee does not expect it will be appropriate to reduce the target range until it has gained greater confidence that inflation is moving sustainably toward 2 percent.
https://www.newsday.com/business/Federal-Reserve-Statement-u42459
The Fed raises interest rates until capital re-gains leverage from labor.
DeleteIf it was about inflation being caused by too much money in the economy, you could just raise taxes, which reduces spending, and lowers inflation.
How often should MSNBC or the Times report on this? We get that Fox will put it on endless loop to stoke political outrage, but explaining the facts and identifying any open questions (about how this involves the asylum system, or Biden, or NYC, or whatever) doesn’t need constant fear-mongering.
ReplyDeleteHas the Republican Party once again killed immigration reform because Donald Trump wants to keep it alive as an issue? Why is Bob not interested in this element of today’s news?
ReplyDeleteHere’s an example of Lawrence “gamboling and playing” last night:
ReplyDeleteHe played tape of Trump claiming that 300,000 people per year die in this country because of illegal immigrants. Then Lawrence played tape of Donald Trump saying to blame him for killing the immigration bill in Congress. So, Lawrence says, all right I guess we can blame Donald Trump when 300,000 people die this year so that Donald Trump can play his political games.
As Somerby admits, the NY Times is not a local paper, which is why it didn’t report an uneventful attempted rousting of 12 migrant young men standing outside their shelter. Cable news is not local either, which is why they dodn’t report it, or any of the many similar events in New York every night. Somerby is an idiot to think either source should report it.
ReplyDeleteOnly one of the men was charged with a felony. Officers suffered minor injuries (bruises and a small cut) and neither was hurt. The melee started when an officer tried to “take down” one of the men. No one has reported whether the men understood English or the officers were using a language they knew. It seems likely there was some level of misunderstanding. The robbery seems likely to involve taking away officer equipment being used against the young men.
New York has implemented a bail system where people charged with minor crimes are not held on unaffordable amounts of bail yhat result in way longer jail times than their crimes would merit. These migrants can most likely not afford bail.
Fox has blown this fracas into a major attack in order to accuse the left of being easy on crime and Somerby wants the more responsible media to do the same. It seems to me they are showing better judgement than Somerby.
Somerby once promised to explain what he meant by “blue bayou” and today he calls all the non-red media a “blue bubble” as if there is only red and blue with no center or objective reporting. That’s untrue, unhelpful, and misleading. The New York Times is not engaging in yellow journalism as Fox does routinely, no matter how it leans. But that doesn’t stop Somerby from saying it does.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYeah, I don't know what Bob is thinking. Should this really be a national news story? It seems obvious to me why right-leaning "news" sources would play a story like this up. They're just using it for propagandistic purposes - immigrants bad, cops good, Democrats bad, Republicans good. If anything, the story should be covered to show how right-wing propaganda works and the logical fallacies and emotional manipulation involved in such propaganda.
DeleteWhat does a left-leaning blogger think of The NY Times?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.eschatonblog.com/2024/02/ive-made-my-case.html?m=1
That post mentions “acceptible opinions” it would be interesting to see a discussion of the Overton Window
DeleteThe Overton Window now includes taking up arms against the Federal Government and republican senators and governors talking secession.
DeleteGo fuck yourself, David.
David didn't take up arms or share terrible chicken scratch writing calling it readable criticism. He's just a dude who lives in California.
DeleteHe’s not just any old dude. He’s a retired actuary, and don’t you forget it.
Delete
ReplyDeleteDefund U.S. Customs and Border Protection!
I join Bob in wanting Kevin to be a national treasure.
ReplyDeleteBut David was horrified, HORRIFIED, I tell you, by the ghastly video , showing officers receiving MINOR INJURIES.
ReplyDeleteDon’t come here and injure our cops. At all.
DeleteI doubt they came here with that intent. The Jan 6 rioters, now…
Delete12:28
DeleteI think you need a diaper change.
Anonymouse 5:38pm, may they be your next door neighbors.
DeleteLet's look at some American history here:
DeleteThere used to be a lot of violence here against Native people by Britain. They let some Irish people be cops to break up unionizing.
So American culture let's this job be holy. With no job, you're not holy. Only making money is what the God of America wants.
The British criminals of the past, the Irish criminals, the Italians, are all forgiven, and we make movies about how tough things used to be for them. They were proud survivors in a scary world.
Well some people still are proud survivors, and they haven't been let into that category of assimilated America. American white history includes destruction of massive amounts of non-white wealth, not just stealing from American Indians but also literally razing entire Black neighborhoods to the ground.
And you pat yourself on the back living a clean life, when your ancestors came to America they all had a distant cousin who was shady or something before your ethnicity, or your tribe made it into wealth-creating cycles of inheritance. You see the Bill OReilly and Ben Shapiro representing the worst of white pride in the mainstream, until Trump came along and became the father of white resentment politics.
The Democratic Party didn't anticipate this happening and just assumed the people of America are getting more civilized every day. In many ways we're backsliding, and you're seeing the militia movement recreate under the drummed up media fear, a return to the normalization of white criminality, the election of thugs like Trump.
Needless to say, I don't think Trump reads the history of Germany the same way most Americans would like to
Delete@10:59 When you talk out someone's ancestors, you're really talking about people of the same ethnicity. After all, nobody knows if a particular person's ancestor mistreated a particular Indian. In my case, I can be sure that my ancestors didn't do so, but I suspect you would might still blame me for bad things done by white people.
DeleteIMO that's why the idea that we should bear some responsibility for bad things done by our ancestors is a terrible idea. It really amounts to blaming an entire ethnic group for something. It leads to racial and ethnic animosity, feuds, and pointless wars.
So here's the hard question David. Is Donald Trump mentally ill or just a quirky German?
DeleteLooking at this problem from another direction:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/02/mexico-trying-to-hold-american-gun-culture-accountable
Defund the police was what fit on a BLM protest sign. It stands for reallocate some police funds to counselors - which turned out to be a horrible shortcut for what would be a good thing.
ReplyDeleteOther than Congresswoman Bush, name three National Dems who are saying it. It's like CRT, a bunch of manufactured bullshit resulting in folks having no idea what they are angry about.
Great point. Calling it a characteristic misstep for Democrats amounts to saying "stop permitting any of your millions of supporters engaging in thousands of activities to EVER say or do anything that might be (mis)construed by Fox to play into Republican talking points." The more constructive criticism is - wait for it! - to stick to how so many otherwise admirable progressive pundits consistently adopt Republican framing. I will never forget Chris Hayes (extremely admirable otherwise) immediately endorsing James Comey's trashing of Hillary Clinton for her egregious (but, of course, non-indictable) email practices.
DeleteWhen was the last time Chris Hayes was mentioned at this blog?
DeleteWhy not also study critical race theory though?
DeleteDefund critical race theory.
DeleteHey liberal, you spelled "debate" wrong
DeleteAfter all this time somebody still thinks Clinton's email practices were "egregious"?
Delete@2:30AM - Sorry, I forgot the scare quotes.
DeleteSome points here:
ReplyDelete1. There was only 14 of days in 2023 that the American cops didn't kill anybody. One-Four. In a whole year.
2. The unions representing cops often resist regulations and training to solve conflicts nonviolently.
The movement to see reform of First responders is not to have nobody come to help you if there's a problem. Rather it's to have people who are trained specifically to deal with homeless people, immigrants, mental health issues that aren't solved by pointing a gun at them. Very frequently cops will show up to someone's house and just shoot the person having a mental health breakdown.
3. This blog likes to look at both sides of every issue but hasn't once taken this point of view of the asylum seeker.
Most migrants know not to raise their head because they can get deported. But young men can do stupid things. This blog extends such sympathy to young white men when they involve themselves in left-wing protests and riots and show up armed.
Let's put ourselves in the shoes of someone undocumented walking down the street. If you have fled a country that is dangerous to you and you don't want to be deported and you happen to be a policeman gives you a dirty look and starts harassing you, you're going to experience an overwhelming sense of dread. That could be the first step of you going to live in hell for the rest of your life. You could be put on a plane to some military dictatorship and dying next week.
This blog frequently appeals to loving kindness to take the side of armed white nationalists, it describes them as pitiful young white men. It refuses to even once step in the shoes of migrants and asylum seekers who pick your food, who do the dishes in your restaurants, sometimes alongside prison labor that also gets swept under the rug.
We live in a country that thinks it's oppression you have to press one for English on the telephone and let Spanish speakers into charter schools who might bring down the testing average and funding stream because of No child Left behind. This country is segregating itself everyday.
"People are dying all over the world. Red tribe blue tribe," the daily Howler says comfortably secured in middle class Buddhahood, ignoring the hegemony of the middle class people versus its Brown and Black servant class.
Without a doubt, once they fled that country, it's immediately become less dangerous. That's the plus side of all this.
DeleteOnce again we see Bob's readers failing to empathize.
DeleteThere are military dictatorships with no women's shelters, no nonprofits helping you.
Just so you can wear cheaper sweatshop clothes and put batteries in your car.
What the rich conservatives want is a border distraction so white, black and brown and yellow don't join forces against the shitty work system they benefit from
Delete"This blog frequently appeals to loving kindness to take the side of armed white nationalists."
DeleteWha???
When the Nazi kid shot up the Wisconsin riot Bobby took the side of white power and punched left
DeleteAmerica still has 800,000 slaves and you liberals and conservatives call yourselves the civilized world
Deletehttps://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/takeaways-aps-investigation-us-prison-labor-supports-popular-106759128
Anonymouse 4:49pm (Unamused) where were all the black people in Wisconsin?
DeleteMost of ‘em stayed home.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:30pm, all 10 of them.
DeleteThe white vigilante with white supremacist friends traveled to Wisconsin to intimidate people rioting over white police aggression.
DeleteHow much more mayonnaise can go on this sandwich?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jacob_Blake
He went to Wisconsin to protect racial hierarchies.
DeleteBiden is losing. Scapegoat the queers!
ReplyDeleteIn other news today: making buggering porn videos in offices of the US Senate is perfectly legal.
DeleteThey already fuck everyone else in the ass in Congress might as well fuck themselves too
DeleteWhat makes you think that turning to economic populism would be unpopular with transgender people?
ReplyDeleteBecause of things like Fox News, coming out as trans or gay could mean losing your college fund, it could mean losing the roof over your head, it could mean never talking to your parents again.
Biden obsessed with Morning Joe:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.axios.com/2024/02/02/biden-obsession-morning-joe-msnbc-media
White House aides strategically time their appearances on Morning Joe between 7 and 7:40 a.m. to reach President Biden and watch the show to anticipate questions from him.
Does this cast concerns about their inaccuracies in a new perspective?
I don’t think Bob has ever said a word about the beaten cops of Jan 6th. He was unimpressed with the congressional report.
ReplyDelete"We live in an oligarchy of unlimited campaign spending that stalls economic progress and this is the fault of a girl's soccer team "
ReplyDeleteRyan Samsel, who instigated the breach of the Capitol, has been convicted.
ReplyDeleteLiberals are happy with wearing clothes made in Mexico but heaven forbid they should have a bad day around the white people
ReplyDeleteIt's not a coincidence Republicans are winning and Americans can barely define what neoliberal politics are.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly are republicans winning?
DeleteTrump leads in seven swing states
DeleteStephen Colbert should primary Biden and beat Trump
ReplyDeleteIt's the ultimate participation trophy to vote for increased border aggression. Relatively few asylum seekers want to hurt anyone. American power does want people in other countries to get reamed by business interests. So you get to give yourself credit as a patriot for living in a wealthy empire and not crossing any borders illegally, while those who live outside the imperial core have the "white pride" of never leaving the settler colonies of America.
ReplyDeleteAmericans will say "if you don't like America then go somewhere else" but if Mexicans don't like Mexico they have to stay.
ReplyDeleteThey'll say you should work hard in life then ask what the Power Ball is at.
We're salt of the earth dumb people. Oklahoma is even another word for stupidity by now even in slang.