MONDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2024
All praise to the Internet Archive: In this morning's print editions, last week's no-bail release of the Gotham cop-beaters has appeared in the New York Times.
Andy Newman is the lead reporter. Print edition headline included, the report begins like this:
Grand Jury Set in Assault On Officers In Times Sq.
As he prepares to present evidence to a grand jury on Tuesday against a group of men charged with assaulting police officers in Times Square, the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, is under pressure over his handling of the case.
In all, seven men were arrested following the Jan. 27 assault, in which an officer and a lieutenant sustained minor injuries. All of them were migrants, according to a law enforcement official.
Prosecutors decided not to ask the judge to hold most of the men on bail, and after they were released from jail last week, four of them fled the city, according to the official.
Mr. Bragg quickly became the subject of unusual public criticism from the police. In response, he expressed concern that all the perpetrators might not have been correctly identified.
The report begins to fill in some of the basic factual information about this high-profile series of incidents. Newman cites Governor Hochul's reaction during this later passage:
The case and the outcry over Mr. Bragg’s handling of it touch on several hot-button issues. Among them are criticism of New York’s bail-reform laws, which bar judges from setting bail in most nonviolent crimes, and many New Yorkers’ declining patience with footing the bill for the care of the nearly 70,000 migrants housed in city shelters.
Most of the men arrested in the attack were charged with felony assault, a crime that remains eligible for bail even under changes in New York State bail law. Nevertheless, they were released without bail.
The firestorm recalled past episodes in which Mr. Bragg did not proactively address politically charged cases and policy decisions, including a 2022 case in which a bodega clerk who killed an attacker was initially charged with homicide. He has faced backlash from both Democrats and Republicans in such instances, often responding some time after criticism has begun.
Gov. Kathy Hochul, Democrat of New York, said at a news conference on Wednesday that she was “looking to judges and prosecutors to do the right thing” in the Times Square case. On Thursday, she said of any migrants found responsible for the assault: “Get them all and send them back.”
As we noted last week, Hochul has called for deportation of the assailants, who attacked the pair of police officers in a group of roughly twelve. For the record, "the firestorm," "the outcry" and "the unusual public criticism" of Alvin Bragg hasn't simply come "from the police."
The outcry concerning this matter has occurred all over the Fox News Channel, with the Times arriving on the scene perhaps a week too late.
Governor Hochul has actively called for deportation. As we noted last week, Al Sharpton has said, on several occasions, that violent assaults of this type are not the kinds of events bail reform was ever meant to address.
On this morning's Morning Joe, Sharpton took his language concerning this incident quite a bit further. On at least two separate occasions, he referred to the influx of migrants into northern cities run by black mayors as a type of "invasion."
In that way, Sharpton echoed the kind of language which has fueled commentary about the southern from the political right. During the past few years, our own blue tribe has largely persisted in pretending that the southern border, with its attendant problems, doesn't even exist. It's been all about Trump Trump Trump Jail!
We can't yet link you to Sharpton's new statements; for unknown reasons, the Internet Archive tends to be slower in posting videotape from Morning Joe than from all other MSNBC programs.
With that said, let us also say this:
All praise to the Internet Archive and to its almost wholly unutilized public service!
Good lord! The Internet Archive actually posts minute-by-minute videotape of all programs on all three of our major "cable news" channels! In principle, this permits a full examination of what's being said, to millions of people, on these high-profile networks.
Having said that, we'll add this:
We don't think we've ever seen anyone ever offer a link to any of the video content made available through this remarkable service. Especially in the case of the astonishing content now being churned on primetime shows on the Fox News Channel, the finer people have thereby normalized the astounding degradation of the public discourse being engineered on Fox.
For ourselves, it has worked like this:
We only began to watch Fox programs with more regularity when the offerings on MSNBC became completely unwatchable. Since we began watching Fox with more regularity, we've been surprised by the extent of the change in the channel's long-standing partisan bombast format—but also by the absolute, undisguised stupidity the channel now provides during the bulk of its primetime hours.
Fox's turn to a "comedy"-based delivery system may well make for more effective tribal propaganda. During the course of this election year, we're going to make sure that this conduct is memorialized, though we can assure you that career players within our blue world will not be discussing this conduct by Fox, except in the general, softer-soap ways our tribe enjoys and admires.
Starting in March 1999, we documented the ways the mainstream press corps make a 20-month joke of Campaign 2000. That said, what was happening in the mainstream press corps stayed within the mainstream press corps, and it still basically does:
The liberal world is still almost wholly unaware of what was done to its interests during that remarkably stupid press corps campaign—what was done by the mainstream press, not by "the right-wing machine."
We're going to document the events of this campaign too. Tomorrow morning, we'll start by looking at the ship of fools assembled to chat about "President Poopy Pants," the "vegetable in chief," on the astonishingly stupid Gutfeld! program last Friday night.
Your tribe's career players will almost surely avert their gaze from what we post at this site. It's hard to believe that these are the ways "the rational animal" actually works, but this is the way that animal works—first within the marauding red tribe, then also within the self-protective blue.
We'll link you to Sharpton's comments when they become available. This isn't what bail reform was intended to do, he instantly said last week—and now, rightly or wrongly, he seems to have said much more.
"All praise to the Internet Archive and to its almost wholly unutilized public service!"
ReplyDeleteSomerby can have no idea how little or how much the archive is used. Several of us in comments were using it and pointed it out to Somerby, after one of his tirades about how slow MSNBC is about supply him with transcripts so he can criticize their shows.
"We only began to watch Fox programs with more regularity whne the offerings on MSNBC became completely unwatchable." Hey, I think I called THIS several months ago, that Bob could not face the facts about such matters as "legitimate political discourse." That Jan 6 committee was weak, so biased!
ReplyDelete"During the past few years, our own blue tribe has largely persisted in pretending that the southern boarder, with it's attendant problems, doesn't even exist."
That's bullshit, but why does Bob want to ignore the Republicans killing boarder reform on Trump's orders, to protect the issue?
"Trump Trump Trump Trump"
Right Bob, it's all "legal trivia." Stick it.
Today it is migrants migrants migrants Jail on Somerby's blog.
Delete"Starting in March 1999, we documented the ways the mainstream press corps make a 20-month joke of Campaign 2000."
ReplyDeleteOddly, non of us voters considered the mainstream press coverage of the election in 2000 to be a 20-month joke.
Here's one voter that did consider it a joke. And considering the amount of material The Daily Show Indecision 2000 series had to work with (a virtual gold mine) and how well-received it was (it was a success that launched the show into the spotlight) and... you know what never mind. This won't be a productive exchange.
DeleteYou must be the last person still watching the Daily Show by then.
DeleteThe Daily Show has always been neoliberal garbage.
DeleteLess so ehen Jon Stewart was involved.
DeleteThat was always his agenda.
Deletehttps://youtu.be/iCAD3enXDwE?si=q-XxXdJKJ1yKo4ii
"We don't think we've ever seen anyone ever offer a link to any of the video content made available through this remarkable service."
ReplyDeleteI believe I linked to it back when Somerby was complaining about Morning Joe's remarks about the MS and LA miracles (NAEP reading score increases). I wanted to see whether Joe actually called LA a miracle, and why.
Increasingly, you cannot trust the quotes Somerby provides. They are often incomplete (unfairly clipped) and taken out of context, so it is not a good idea to reply to anything Somerby says without checking the quotes first.
But Somerby appears to be claiming to have "discovered" the internet archives when I know that I was mentioning them in comments while Somerby was still calling MSNBC's non-posting of archives to be a conspiracy plot, against him personally. As he does again today. Does Somerby think Joe is paying off the archiives to late-post his transcripts? I guess anything is possible, but this seem pretty unlikely.
Bob was referring to TRANSCRIPTS.
DeleteNot the videos.
Yes, the internet archives have both video and transcripts. Somerby has been complaining that MSNBC doesn't provide transcripts. What did you think we were all talking about?
DeleteBecause of the way shows are repeated, Bob could easily see the MSNBC line up and his Fox favorites.
DeletePolice do not enforce immigration laws. Neither do Abbott's state troopers and militia members. That is the role of Homeland Security. When Somerby or Hochul or Sharpton call for deportation of men who were arrested but never convicted, they are ignoring how the law works. Deportation is not the legal punishment for standing around watching while a police office tries to arrest a guy in a yellow coat and then gets knocked down and kicked for his efforts. As the police have stated, they aren't even sure who participated or whether the men have been correctly identified.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be embarrassing to deport a homeless man, also standing outside the shelter and watching two cops try to arrest a guy? Wouldn't it be a hoot to send him to a country where he doesn't speak the language, has never lived, may not be able to point out on a map, has no job or friends or relatives and thus no way to support himself, and may not even be properly clothed for the weather there? That IS what Republicans like to do, but I am surprised to see Somerby and Sharpton joining in the general hilarity.
Given that Somerby has become a Trump supporter, it doesn't surprise me to see him joining in the modern equivalent of the railroading of the Central Park 5, who turned out to be innocent but black and young and in a park, so obviously up to no good.
Earth to Somerby: migrants have legal rights under our law too. If you were a tourist in another country, you would want that to be true there too.
When did he or anyone else say they didn't?
DeleteNo one has said, "No trial!"
What in the world are you Somerby-haters talking about?
DeleteActually, it may very well be "no trial", if the lawyers and AG agree to deportation and no charges. A miscarriage of justice, of course, but it does happen.
"We're going to document the events of this campaign too. Tomorrow morning, we'll start by looking at the ship of fools assembled to chat about "President Poopy Pants," the "vegetable in chief," on the astonishingly stupid Gutfeld! program last Friday night.
ReplyDeleteYour tribe's career players will almost surely avert their gaze from what we post at this site. It's hard to believe that these are the ways "the rational animal" actually works, but this is the way that animal works—first within the marauding red tribe, then also within the self-protective blue."
My tribe is not the tribe calling Biden poopypants.
I have been averting my gaze from Fox News for my entire life. Why would I stop now? I hope others in my tribe will do the same, because why should they waste their time with someone who calls the president "poopypants"?
The mainstream media is not part of my tribe, nor is it part of the red tribe. It reports on a great many things happening in the world, including sometimes politics. Saying that it is part of the blue tribe, implies that the media would report on other kinds of events with a blue slant. I prefer a slant toward truth, as much as it is possible to know it. I believe most mainstream media attempt that as a goal. Fox does not. Fox is a propaganda and disinformation arm of Trump's MAGA political organization. It wouldn't know truth if it bit them on the ass. Who wants or needs to watch that?
"Fox is stupid. Why aren't you watching?" seems to be the gist of it.
DeleteBob makes a repeated logical error in his blogs. He assumes a news corporation which markets to liberals is the same as being identified with anything from center left social liberalism to the center right moderate Democrats. It's like walking up to someone on the street, asking if they like libraries and unions and if you say yes, that means youre responsible for every lie ever told on NBC and CNN and all cable news.
DeleteThis is simple. The goal of the mainstream media is not to advance the Democratic party and not to elect Biden. It is to report news. The same cannot be said of Fox and the right wing.
DeleteThere is no such thing as blue tribe media.
DeleteHow are the publishers of independent media not also corporations sbd businesses?
Agreed, there is little representation in media of progressives or leftists.
DeleteIndependent media are less driven to narrowly focus on their profit motive and the systems and institutions that uphold their status - most have neither shareholders nor board of directors, therefore they are more driven by their ideology, or psychology.
Both have important roles to play, as corporate media can better cover breaking news, while independent media can better process the impact of events on our lives and society.
I didn't order a salad. Hopefully that's the last of those, rational discussion starts below. One can hope, anyway.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't understand what others are saying here (no need to agree, just get the gist), then you aren't likely to recognize rational discussion. Hoping is useless. Go back to school.
DeleteOr maybe you think "word salad" refers to any long post that covers a bit of ground. It doesn't.
word salad definition: "Word salad is defined as “a jumble of extremely incoherent speech as sometimes observed in schizophrenia,” and has been used of patients suffering from other kinds of dementia, such as Alzheimer's."
You may think it is cute to call other people crazy, but it is mostly uncivil. That gets you off on the wrong foot here by marking you as a conservative, since they are the ones who think being civil is for other people. Fuck your feelings, amirite bro?
This was aimed at me but I didn't read it, FYI. I already know what it says.
Delete"That no-bail release is costing us votes. "
ReplyDeleteAs usual, Somerby cites no poll or evidence in support of this claim.
The function of no-bail release is to keep people charged with minor offenses, who are too poor to afford bail, from spending more time in jail awaiting trial than they would ever serve as a sentence.
Notice that Trump is out without bail right now, because he is a rich and famous guy who people assume will not try to skip town, even though it would be easy for him to do. Why should a billionaire get better treatment than a poor guy standing in front of a homeless shelter being rousted by police for standing with others on a public street?
Whose vote is being lost in this situation? The many people without the means to put up bail, even if wrongly arrested? Or middle class people with a house to use as collateral to a bail bondsman when they get arrested for drunk driving? They probably think it is unfair others are allowed to go free when they have to post a bond for felony drunk driving and involuntary vehicular manslaughter. Muffy and Brent will switch their votes based on this situation, but there is no one non-Democratic for them to vote for in NYC (maybe Staten Island though or Santos' district), so it will be an empty gesture.
No-bail release is one of the smartest, most cost-effective and fair-minded reforms in decades. If political operatives were looking for a way to discredit immigration policy, criminal reform, and Hochul or Adams or Sharpton, all in one swoop, this would be the stunt to use. All that is missing is the choke-hold that cop should have used on the guy in the yellow jacket, but perhaps the other 11 men who were bystanders cramped their style.
Note that both officers are reported here and everywhere else as having only minor injuries (bruises and a small cut), thus they were not in danger even though 12 guys were supposedly attacking them. It sounds like they were barely competent.
Watch the news buddy. Listen to what people are saying.
DeleteThe Dems are getting blamed for migrants/crime/no-bail jail.
Yes, that means no Republicans are going to vote for Biden unless they really really cannot stand Trump. Meanwhile, Democrats will understand what this story is about and it will not affect their votes at all.
Delete4:51,
DeleteIn their defense, that's a lot easier than "the news" saying they love the corporate tax breaks the GOP promises and delivers on.
Democrats are pro-immigration but don't fund any cultural literacy to help the integration happen. Capitalists don't give a shit. Show up at your dumb job and work.
DeleteThere is ESL, but it's grant-funded, instead of just funded outright.
DeleteTrump will likely take a big hit with his conviction
DeleteThat is not true @8:38. I myself worked for Ser- Jobs for Progress, which provided that supposedly non-existent training to migrants. That was a while ago, but similar organizations wirk with immigrants all over the country. See the Reese Witherspoon film The Good Lie for a more current example based on real life. Your jaundiced view of society ignores a lot of good.
DeleteYou worked for private foundations not the democratic government
DeleteMost private foundations are subsidized by the government.
DeleteThe spewings were approximately 1000 word / 20 minutes or 50 wpm. That's a decent typing speed, let alone speed for formulating the thoughts and typing them. You know it's actually surprising that the posts make any sense at all when looking at it that way.
ReplyDeleteOh wow there's another. Well over 50 wpm then.
DeleteMaybe even more amazing is that they actually expect people to engage them in conversation when they've spend all of two minutes organizing their thoughts on complex subjects.
DeleteIn contrast, you have yet to offer any thoughts on a substantive topic at all.
DeleteNow we'll get that wonderful troll claiming they are Corby to complete our little house of horrors. I think I must have a masochistic streak in me to even read the comment section any more. I like to think I might help someone to not descend into darkness by tipping the balance here, because I'm not sure I'm personally getting anything out of it...
DeleteOh this is the other crazy commenter at 3:35? And why should I care what you think? Oh that's right I don't, so need to justify or explain myself!
DeleteThat seems plausible since the numbers are pretty amazing. So the prompt is something like, craft several criticisms of this blog, paste in Bob's post for the day? Hmmm.
ReplyDelete@3:45 PM
ReplyDeleteSomething like that. You give GPT a few keywords, it produces a long drivel, you paste it. Voila. The drivel is always grammatically correct, no typos.
I noticed that too. I was like, how could someone with such seemingly great grammar and vocabulary do so badly when it comes to basic logic in their commentary. Well thanks. Makes me feel better for some reason?
ReplyDeletePeople actually use ChatGPT to produce books, and sell them on Amazon, the kindle version of course.
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse 3:59pm, you’re just now figuring this out?
ReplyDeleteBob even gives them a heads-up by promoing his upcoming essay.
@4:26 PM
ReplyDeleteNo, I figured it out years ago. When you see 15 long gibberish comments posted within an hour, same style, perfect gramma, no typos, that's the most natural conclusion.
They were doing it before Chat GPT came around though. I don't think it's Chat GPT.
ReplyDeleteBut
But it seems almost for sure that it is trolling. They can't be sincere. If they are they are completely insane.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it's very dark and poisonous. They definitely have succeeded in ruining the comment section. But it's been like this for years. And it comes in different forms and with different names and different styles sometimes. It's like there's an army of DNC trolls trying to poison any dialogue that opposes their agenda. If that is true, it's worked really well in a way. Not electorally. Electorally they are about to have their fucking ass handed to them RUTHLESSLY.
ReplyDeleteI think GPT's been around since 2018.
ReplyDeleteWell, there are also simple bots that copy-paste the same one-liner, roughly at the same time of day, with minor variations sometimes. But that's simple and obvious.
ReplyDeleteTwo from Kevin Drum:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/senate-immigration-bill-expands-detention-increases-asylum-judges-and-allows-the-president-to-shut-the-border/
https://jabberwocking.com/how-should-liberals-feel-about-the-border-bill/
Anonymouse 5:27pm, they’re the flying monkey anonymices.
ReplyDeleteYeah, like this one just now. This bot will quickly excrete a few, and disappear for a while.
ReplyDeleteYes, they definitely are flying monkeys.
For a gang to assault someone in a way that could cause serious harm or death is serious crime. That the perps are here illegally makes it worse. Those people shouldn't have been here. That the victim is a policeman makes it even worse. Police have to deal with thugs routinely. They need to be protected as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteIn this light, letting the thugs go free is an astounding dereliction of duty. I don't know where in the legal system the problem lies, but this simply should not happen. I can well see people voting for Trump on the basis that this is nuts, so change is needed.
BTW it's ironic that although Trump is arguably insane, his policies would be saner than the opposition's.
1. They were not a "gang" but a group of 12 men standing outside the entrance to the shelter where they were living.
Delete2. The two cops were found to have only minor injuries described as bruises and a small cut. The descriptions of the assault were inconsistent with the injuries.
3. The people were here legally, having applied for asylum, then transported by bus to NYC where they were living in a shelter assigned to them. That is all legal.
4. Per the video, the policeman was talking with the men, then attempted to "take down" the man in the yellow jacket. There may or may not have been communication problems or misunderstanding involved if the migrants were not native English speakers (or any kind of English speakers).
5. Police do deal with immigrants routinely and they have procedures for doing so. It is unclear whether these were followed, given the outcome of their actions.
6. None of the migrants was armed. The police were armed and trained. That did seem to have protected the police given that there were 12 against 2 in the video.
7. If police were in a fight against 12 actual thugs you would expect more injury and violence than what occurred, thus many of the men appeared to have exercised restraint. That suggests they may not be guilty of the charges against them.
8. Police have stated that they have not identified all of the men and do not know the extent of their involvement. They are still investigating the incident.
9. The cops on the scene and the police involved should know what is most appropriate in the situation. Throwing the book at poor people is not only unkind to them but also needlessly expensive to the city.
David's assumptions and his view of a situation at which he was not present strike me as bigoted because they assume the worst without knowing any facts, beyond some sensationalized Fox News propaganda.
Yes, Trump is insane. Nothing about these migrants and their encounter with the NYC police changes anything about Trump's mental status.
New Yorkers voted for the change in the laws that allows people to be released without bail for petty crimes. I don't believe they were crazy to do that. It is perhaps not a coincidence that NYC voted overwhelmingly for Biden and will do so again.
It's hilarious that David still confuses Trump's grievances with policy.
DeleteThe child-like way David looks at politics is adorable.
Anonymouse 6:33pm, you watched some hardened police officers in heavy vests struggling with two perps. They were assaulted by other noncitizens who were interfering with an arrest.
DeleteYou call them “poor people” without knowing a damn thing about them other than that they are not citizens of the U.S.
It’s likely that they were sprung by the authorities without any more knowledge than you have and upon the faith that they’ll show up for their hearing.
I’d like to be certain that you take more vigilance in caring for your children than this. I’m not. I fear that you likely put politics over them, as well,
if you dont know where a problem is then dont speak and let the people who know educate you
DeleteCeceelia's freudian slip just implied the New York's Finest are her babies to coddle from dangerous immigrants
DeleteA wealthy person would not be living in a migrant shelter. People who migrate to the US with money fly here, then stay in a hotel or with friends or relatives, then rent a house or apt (or buy one). For example, Martin Short emigrated to the US from Canada. He lived in a house, not a migrant shelter. So, yes, I know that they are poor. No one lives in a shelter who has other resources.
DeleteYou might be surprised to know that people in other countries live in houses and apts, just as Americans do.
Cecelia thinks the NYC police don’t take down information on forms when they arrest someone. She seems to think the police don’t write arrest reports in NYC.
DeleteRest easy, Cecelia. My children don’t live in NYC. Also, they are in their 50s. I raised them to have more empathy than you do. And if someone were to grab their cellphone or purse, they are smart enough to let go and not be dragged anywhere, because things are not as important as people.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:40pm, in other words, you raised your children to be “empathetic” to anything and anyone who advanced your political ideals. Including someone who would drag them down a road because they were clutching their purse.
DeleteMy estimation of your motherly concern is on the money.
Let.Go.Of.The.Purse.
Delete“Let.Go.Of.The.Purse”, Anonymouse 9:18pm, says to the victim, rather than to her assailant.
DeleteSee what they want for us?
Anyone teaching self defense tells trainees to let the robber have your stuff. It isn’t worth your life.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:00pm, doofus, do they tell you open your door and let the robbers in?
DeleteYou are truly an idiot. Buy a dog and lock your door but don’t fight with a mugger or car-jacker. What is wrong with you?
DeleteBob's interest in political, so he analyzes the release of these thugs in political terms. Bad for Dems. But, in human terms, these thugs will continue to attack American people. A price will be paid by their future victims.
ReplyDeleteAlso, their treatment is the opposite of deterrent. More violent crimes may be committed in the future, due to the lack of deterrent, although I know of ow way to measure this effect.
The fight started when a police officer put hands on one of the migrants. That is what will happen again and again, cops being cops. The migrants are the victims.
DeleteDavid,
DeleteThe same thing happened when we bailed-out the thugs who blew-up the world's economy in 2008.
Look around and you can easily see the Wall Street thugs haven't been deterred from committing crimes in the slightest.
America had a very violent history even before you see a few migrants rioting here. So we can look at the lowering crime rates in recent years as a success of a stronger social safety from food stamps and likely things like government jobs training, because recent studies show this to be the case. Food stamps early in life reduce repeated felonies later in life.
DeleteGoing with a labor history view rather than just political, every nationality and gender that wasn't allowed into the good jobs for white people, especially educated or privileged white men who knew each other, had to get by on some kind of black market money. The unions weren't always clean either.
Then eventually academia and the job market open to them and we see better outcomes for certain employable classes of people with higher paying jobs pricing themselves out of the previous generation's shady economic sourcing.
So it's exactly these jobs programs and social safety net adjustments that political persecution of Others would discourage. Panicking about this one pretty harmless scuffle with immigrants we disconnect ourselves from trusting our own self conscious souls to be happy in the world, and create loops of constant resentful suspicions from the mind about a fearful Other, undoing the security of the people who need state assistance to resolve these political issues.
Just because American universities dress up like mascots during half time doesn't make them indigenous to America. It was taken after the Civil War by force or broken treaties. It's easy to build an empire and then accuse everyone who has to live in sweatshops of illegal immigration. You are living in the belly of the beast and accusing people of jumping out of the way of its claws.
The Other is the liberal hating the conservative and vice versa. The Other is also the urban and rural, and servant class in the edges of the empire and its imperial core of money.
Taken after the revolutionary war*!
DeleteUnlike Bob Somerby, who has written about his distaste in imprisoning criminals, I would have sentenced those Wall Street thugs to at least a decade in prison.
DeleteNot just for the deterrent factor, but also I believe putting white-collar criminals in prison will lead to prison reform.
Richard Nixon encouraged both jobs programs and immigration.
DeleteMigrants who don’t like our cops should go home.
DeleteStraight up calls for displacing migrants from white middle class white liberals.
DeleteThe idea that you can assign a home to an ethnicity is racist
DeleteWhy not train cops to speak spanish and know de-escalation techniques instead of having them shoot people every day?
DeleteVote for prison labor right wing parties, or immigrant labor center parties. There is no working class party, it's just a few bookstores in Portland. But the working class does better with the center parties than the right wing, and we eventually have to merge immigrant and american-born people with each other's working class interests.
DeleteYour adolescent working man stance must gloss a lot of complexities to reach the point where you can call right and left the same. There is a lot more to our society than working class issues, such as climate change and environment, education, civil rights, culture and arts. Boiling this down to just economics ignores too much else that is important to humanity. With luck, you will stop trying to see everything through a single lens of class and recognize other differences that matter.
DeleteThe upper class doesnt see outside its own backyard and it has all the power.
DeleteIf you want climate and all those other issues really addressed, you have to face well funded lobbies. That means changes in campaign finance at the state level and arguments in favor of that. Which include criticism of capitalism.
You're identifying academic sociological research with the pretensions of someone who just learned about them in a college homework assignment.
DeleteLook at Connecticut's surge in democratic governance compared to any red state in the country. Small donor matching makes better governance period to create attention in the political actors to the issues rather than fundraising itself.
A British paper covered this story, but as far as I can tell, it's not in the NY Times
ReplyDeleteShocking video shows migrant moped riders dragging woman along NYC street as they steal her phone as cops reveal Venezuelan gang is behind 62 thefts
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13047397/video-migrant-dragging-woman-nyc-venezuelan-gang-thefts.html
Did she know they were Venezuelan because she recognized their specific Spanish accent as they told her to let go?
Deletehttps://www.nydailynews.com/2024/02/05/nypd-busts-robbery-cell-phone-ring-migrant-suspects/
Delete"Today, immigrants are 30 percent less likely to be incarcerated than are U.S.-born individuals who are white, the study finds."
Deletehttps://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime
Proportion of pop, locality, and known history of prior arrests could influence that.
DeleteI wonder if not reading the study will answer whether those were influences or not.
DeleteOh well, we'll leave that judgement for those making good faith arguments.
Trump never reads anything, why should Cecelia.
DeleteNot ever from a link here anyway.
DeleteNot ever? Not even my links to Kevin Drum? They’re very informative.
DeleteThis is what a closed mind looks like.
DeleteIt's expensive as hell to become respectable and affluent in America, and Europe still controls Venezeula's gold. You have to see the deeper context, it's like missing the forest and only seeing a tree.
DeleteIt takes education to become affluent in America. That education is free K-12 and inexpensive at community colleges and state universities. Yet both Somerby and the right wing knock education as “elitist” instead of encouraging youth to pursue it. The military provide a free college education to those willing to get good grades and complete a service obligation. Many low income and minority young people pursue that route, especially in medicine. It strikes me as a crime to block such avenues of advancement, as Somerby routinely does with his ridicule. I see migrants using this path. We should hope they stay and use their skills to benefit our society.
DeleteThe US shouldn't have to use things like the military and the church as jobs programs. It should just directly employ people in state-owned industries.
Delete
DeleteThe US is drowning college graduates in debt and they're either not paying it off or going crazy. The third world faces debt as well. This amounts to trillions of dollars of political leverage.
Capitalism has to give back to people through the state or crime rates goes up. That's why social liberalism has to make a strong economic case across the board because we have to argue that progressive economic policy protects people in their literal security from organized violence, especially white supremacist violence.
We can use published academic studies to see policies that benefit this:
"The homicide rate dropped 0.6 per 100,000 persons per year every year from 1934 to 1937 as the government began to provide the unemployed with jobs and relief, recognized the right of unionized workers to bargain collectively with their employers, issued loans to small busi-nesses, and granted subsidies and incentives to farmers. The adminis-tration’s policies did not end the Depression, and relief payments were so meager that many families remained hungry and homeless. But the
administration itself, and President Roosevelt in particular, won the loyalty of most voters and convinced them that government had a role
to play in regulating and subsidizing the capitalist economy."
https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2009-Randolph_Roth-American_Homicide.pdf
I'm using the word liberalism here to mean liberal democracy, because I really reject most of capitalism itself. But there is not an anti-capitalist party to vote for so I lobby the capitalist liberals to be more progressive instead.
DeleteAnyone can do college without debt.
Delete9:55 PM
DeleteWithout rich parents it takes over 20 years to pay of college debt. With rich parents it takes still about 20 years.
You can self-finance communitycollege with a roommate and a part-time job. People who acquire debt are being choosy about where they go. A motivated student can get a solid education without debt but not at a top-tier school. A’s in the first two years can be transferred to a state college, often with a scholarship. Again with A’s, most grad programs pay their student’s tuition, fees, and a stipend for being a research or teaching assistant. These are not law school, medicine, pharmacy or dentistry, which do require Permanent loans. They are PhD and Masters degrees with solid career paths.
DeleteThe sage bowed his head and said wisely:
DeleteJust get perfect scores on the everything and eat ramen noodles and Willy Wonka will appear and give you a golden ticket to the lower middle class so know your place and not everyone goes to Harvard sweestie
Anyone can pay for college simply let yourself be groomed for your high intelligence until you have a million dollars, easy peazy
DeleteGetting As is a matter of reading the book and doing the homework. It takes motivation and effort, not brains.
DeleteApparently people here think someone should just be handed a pile of money for existing. No effort required. Those who get A's in school work for them. So do people who earn money in later life -- they work too. If you don't want to work in school, fine, you can do low skill manual labor jobs when you get out of school.
Ah I see you are an elitist and school is your ideal meritocracy
DeleteEducation is a human right not simply a hamster wheel to run on to make other people money you goddamn pretentious white capitalist
DeleteMy theory is at least one of them is Somerby, trying to get more clicks and engagements on his blog.
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse 6:32pm, nope. Bob couldn’t pretend to be someone else with a “dangerous” opinion.
ReplyDeleteNot at gunpoint.
Cecelia,
ReplyDeleteI agree. No one who repeats Right-wing grievances on a daily basis could pretend to be anything but who they really are.
Cecelia sees a gang among commenters, just like David has formed a group of migrants standing in front of a shelter into a gang in his crime fantasy. What is it with conservatives and gangs? Is the "gang" the basic unit for forming conspiracy theories? She apparently thinks that anyone who doesn't think as she does must be part of the gang. The so-called group dynamics and grudges may just be because the various people who don't think like Cecelia don't think like each other either.
ReplyDeleteCalling people you disagree with "flying monkeys" isn't very nice. But when was Cecelia ever a nice person?
Anonymouse 6:43pm, you’re very sensitive considering that you’re here to call TDH a blog written by a traitorous double agent.
ReplyDeleteThe Right are the snowflakes they warned us about.
ReplyDeleteKevin Drum writes very sensibly today about the boarder bill. Bob is unlikely to notice, however, because the Republicans are killing the bill because daddy orange says so.
ReplyDeleteYou can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. IMO the Biden Administration and many states and localities are working more to increase the number of migrants, not decrease them. If a bill is passed with some provisions that allow and encourage more migrants, and if Biden and Mayorkas and the Dems continue to let migrants in, the bill will result in more migrants, not fewer. That's why I, like many conservatives, oppose the bill.
DeleteSome of us on the Left actually like the USA, and think great things about it.
DeleteHumble-ragging Conservatives, who think the USA isn't good enough or successful enough to accept people in need disagree.
What are you going to do?
Migrants are a net asset to the US.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:42pm, you have mayors, police departments, school systems, neighborhood citizens begging for help. You’d like to pretend it’s just racist Bubba in the sticks, but you can’t anymore.
Deletewho cares that some random conservative dude in california thinks that there should be less immigration not more? how did your great grandparents get here if not immigration. use your head.
Deletewho gave you the magic ring to know which generation to cut off immigration with?
DeleteDavid is an example of the multi-generational harm from migration.
DeleteWhen Abbott dumps 100,000 immigrants on large cities unprepared for them, of course they want help. That isn’t the fault of the immigrants. Abbott is deliberately avoiding the organizations in place to help immigrants in TX and the system for processing them. Just like his barbed wire impedes border patrol in doing their jobs. That is sabotage of the system.
DeleteDavid goes to IMHO when he has zero to back up what he says. That he and Cecelia are spooked by this, however, is a good sign. It shows the MAGA babies don't care about the issue, and if the Dems hit this hard they can utilize this. And they should. Bob can ignore it, but everyone won't.
Delete7:59,
DeleteSo we provide the mayors, police departments, neighborhood citizens, schools, and immigrants the funding they need to ease the burden.
Richest country in the history of mankind can easily afford it, but there are too many people more concerned that the Bezos, Kochs, and Musks, of the country won't be able to afford a fourth yacht.
The bill was co-written by Lankford, a very conservative Republican. Somehow, it’s still not conservative” enough for Trump/David. See how high David and pals jump when Trump says jump.
Delete@7:46 Many immigrants are indeed an asset to the country. OTOH some immigrants are a liability. E.g., Albert Einstein and Elon Musk were bigger assets to the US than most MS-13 gang members.
DeleteWhat immigrants are liabilities to the US?:
-- those with communicable diseases,
-- gang members,
-- criminals.
The nice thing about the regular legal immigration process is that these undesirable immigrants can be denied entry. That's better than allowing whatever sort of people who sneak over the border to stay here.
The US can only adapt so many new immigrants at one time. The legal immigration process allows us to not admit immigrants at too fast a rate.
Really these points are traditional and obvious. In a democracy like ours, the Executive Branch should routinely limit the number of immigrants to whatever the legislative process calls for. Somehow illegal immigration has become normalized. That's unfortunate IMO.
The US uses a variety of economic and political chokepoints on the lives of everyday people outside its borders and breaks international law every day with routine denial of asylum cases. 85% percent is the number Bob gave. It has no right to claim authority on the right treatment of anyone.
DeleteWhy you are so interested in a single news story about a fight outside what was basically a homeless shelter on a single night, when people got shot every day except 14 of them, in 2023, is your own tacit admission that the state favors your security over another, in other words you are communicating from a place of relative security. So your desire to panic over this story is using up a lot of your own energy you could be using to talk about more important issues.
When people at the border share their wealth of migrants they are being so terrible to Sanctuary Cities who touted that status like it’s the Virgin Mary.
DeleteDo you see what they really are?
No one is letting people sneak in. They do it because our border is thousands of miles long and cannot be sealed, and because anyone can fly here and just stay. People caught trying to sneak in are sent back. More than 50% of those applying for asylum are eventually deported. Those captured snd sent back are statistics. Those not captured are an unknown number. No one is letting them in or letting them stay.
DeleteWe grow our own M-13 gang members and criminals in the US. Those migrants allowed in are screened for disease and criminal records already. You do not mention the women and children who arrive seeking asylum. They are not gang members or criminals. Often they are victims of abuse that they are fleeing.
Because our border is porous, the only immigration system is the legal one. There is no normalized illegal system and no open border. People sneak in, in unknown numbers, but not because they are being let in.
Cecelia, what you wrote is incoherent.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:54pm, no, it’s not.
DeleteYou’re just telling me and everyone else today and every day to shut our traps and live with it.
Let go of your purse, folks. Shut your damn mouth and let go.
What you wrote makes no sense.
DeleteThere’s no expectation of Cecelia making sense, most people here just get a kick out of triggering him, and then are amused reading his hate spewing lunatic rants.
DeleteThe National Border Patrol Council has endorsed the bill put forth by the senate. These are the people on the front lines.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:47pm, you can’t play dumb enough to exceed anyone’s expectations of your dumbness.
DeleteWe got it.
At 9:15, it has nothing to do with how conservative the bill is. They do not care about immigration and never have. They want to serve Trump and own the libs.
DeleteDavid thinks that the bill isn’t the perfect bill for conservatives, so they should take their ball and go home. However, this is probably the best bill they are going to get, because Democrats have some input here. “Compromise” isn’t a word in the Republican playbook.
DeleteDavid was for the measures included in the bill when trump was advocating for them, before trump ordered the cowards in congress to be against the bill. Now David is against the bill.
DeleteRepublicans view their lack of integrity as a feature not a bug.
DeleteOnly the Democrat party cares about immigration.
DeleteThe Democrat party always wanted to build the Wall and to deport all illegals, but Republicans wouldn't allow it.
The Democratic Party aren't fucking idiots advocating for a "wall" with nice doors. But thanks for coming by, Boris.
DeleteI’m not playing dumb. I really am this dumb.
Delete@10:48 AM
DeleteYou are funded by Russia via Iran and Qatar, Boris. I am Morby.
It is sufficient to call Somerby a liar. You on the right inflate that into some conspiracy-like traitorous double agent, no doubt operating from a pizza parlor basement.
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse 7:14pm, but you’re not content to merely call Bob a liar.
ReplyDeleteIt’s anonymices who accuse Bob of being Putin’s duplicitous hired-hand.
I don't see how anyone can confuse Bob Somerby with a Republican Congressperson, no matter how much they try.
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse 7:27pm, not in this particular post of yours, anyway.
ReplyDeleteCecelia is a good decent person, but she’s too tall. I am not a bot. Nor a flying monkey. My funding comes from Iran via Russia. Qatar is not involved.
ReplyDelete“Don’t want no short Russians…” 🎶
ReplyDeleteMore from Kevin:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/heres-a-quick-look-at-objections-to-the-senate-immigration-bill/
I don’t know that song.
ReplyDeleteNikki Haley needs Secret Service protection from feral Trumpers.
ReplyDeleteIt went over your head.
ReplyDeleteWhy can’t David be good and decent like Cecelia?
ReplyDeleteAn atmospheric river has hit California. Let’s keep David in our thoughts and prayers.
ReplyDeleteThis blog pretends to call out both sides on errors, but really it puts its thumb on the scale for white middle class anxiety.
ReplyDeleteRandy Newman was accused of being a height bigot for that song, which isn’t very nice (even if Newman himself is short). Not surprising Cecelia would be humming it.
ReplyDeleteAmericans will vote for Biden and Democrats because they care so much about the common man's needs.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
DeletePay no attention to the horse-race polls the media is pushing.
Trump has taken a steep drop in the polls as Biden starts his campaign.
DeleteTrump will be convicted in the DC trial.
Watching right wingers cope with their loss of power can be amusing, but it also indicates deeply wounded people that are deserving of pity.
Blacks are flocking to Biden because he is laser focused on creating jobs. In black neighborhoods, the enthusiasm for Biden is palpable.
DeleteBlacks support Biden in the same numbers as they have always supported Dems.
DeleteYou are correct, enthusiasm for Biden in Black neighborhoods is high, including mine.
10:36 - How so? What are some examples of this enthusiasm in your black neighborhood?
Delete10:36: "Blacks support Biden in the same numbers as they have always supported Dems."
DeleteHow do you measure this?
I won't wait for an answer as you are full of shit and talking out of your ass on both counts.
“We only began to watch Fox programs with more regularity when the offerings on MSNBC became completely unwatchable.”
ReplyDeleteAnd now we only watch the other unwatchable channel.
Meanwhile, the original channel reports on the border, on the recent air strikes, etc. shouldn’t an interested media critic/watcher watch both channels to compare and contrast the reporting?
…
Nah. We’ll stick with the absolute, undisguised stupidity of Fox, thank you very much.
MSNBC is Security State propaganda.
DeleteNonsense
Delete9:56 Then why not examine its content, rather than dismiss it or ignore it? It doesn’t serve the readership of a media criticism blog to ignore a presumably influential channel. Plus, you might be surprised to learn that there are critical or cautionary voices there. But then that would destroy your characterization. That’s why Somerby ignores their coverage.
DeleteBobby, Bobby, Bobby!!! You switched to Fox after finding MSNBC unpalatable? You are supposed to be a media critic! For how many years did you ignored the content that Fox was putting out? All that time spewing vitriol at Rachel Maddow and ignoring Tucker Carlson, the Five, Pirro, etc. What an admission of incompetence at what you claim to be doing here. Explains a lot.
DeleteIgnore for ignored
DeleteUnamused, for the same amount of time that you stopped loving him.
DeleteI suppose that was the time that you stopped supporting his foray into cleaning his own house.
How much Fox News stupidity did he ignore while he was “cleaning house”, all the while admonishing non-Fox media to … pay attention to Fox??
Delete…and “loving him”, Cecelia? That’s a revealing word.
Delete"All that time spewing vitriol at Rachel Maddow"
DeleteAccurately.
For the record, I never stopped loving Bob. It's just that I'm heartbroken. All this Maddow Maddow Maddow! And for what? Style points? Meanwhile the dumpster fire over at Fox got scant notice so that Bobby could expend his energy berating us liberals. Not to get all biblical on you, but Bob: you are welcome back into the family after a long absence from your stated objective here. Prodigal son. We still love you. Especially Cecelia, who can't get enough of you.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:20am, not really. “Bobby” was your hot stuff back in the days of Clinton, according to all the aggrieved anonymices now.
DeleteHe was your thing, until he wasn’t.
Unamused, that chick in the movie Fatal Attraction is less obsessive than anonymices are toward Bob.
DeleteI had a girlfriend like that once. Fortunately, no pet rabbit.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:48pm, I’m sure you did accuse Newman of that.
ReplyDeleteYou’re concrete. It went over your head.
It wasn’t funny.
ReplyDelete“That no-bail release is costing us votes.”
ReplyDeleteWhy? Are the facts clearly known? Why should a local decision in New York affect a national vote?
Does Somerby agree with the decision, since he claims to be loath to put people in jail, or does he feel it was a misstep by New York officials? Does it matter that there are Democrats who are critical of the decision?
Because the media created copganda the rest of us are supposed to knuckle under
DeleteI want what Cece is smoking
ReplyDeleteSomerby is sounding like Stephanie Ruhle, with his concerns about the Biden campaign. (why isn’t his economic message getting through? Why didn’t he do that Super Bowl interview?)
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the mainstream, Bob.
Migrants should be registered as citizens and vote with unions. That's actual democracy.
ReplyDeleteMigrants should be appointed to the Supreme Court.
DeleteMigrants should control the nuclear button. I am Uorby.
DeleteGenuine.
DeleteColonizers already used the bomb before
DeleteThey pick your tomatoes and milk your cows but God forbid they get to have any say in the country they pay taxes in with no representation
DeleteFrom previous thread:
ReplyDeleteDavid, can you provide a link to Kevin Drum writing what you say he wrote about the proposed bill. Because you're a fucking liar, no republican senator in the year of our Lord 2024 would ever support and vote for such a bill.
I think you misunderstood my comment
DeleteMaybe the immigrants who beat-up those cops filed election papers before they did so.
ReplyDeleteThat might explain why they can't be charged with crimes.
If you run for election, you get criminal immunity. Every Right-winger knows that!
That's nothing. Trying to investigate a potential Democrat candidate for bribery is an impeachable offense. Every Democrat knows that.
Delete