tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post262933097449957083..comments2024-03-28T06:43:21.546-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Another dialogue straight outta Grade 2!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19042906549744452902013-03-21T15:49:33.888-04:002013-03-21T15:49:33.888-04:00Amazing! Its truly aweѕome paragraph, I have got m...Amazing! 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CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10038264970334077562012-08-14T08:40:10.993-04:002012-08-14T08:40:10.993-04:00"Yeah, poor health insurance companies. They ..."Yeah, poor health insurance companies. They can hardly turn a profit any more because of all the verdicts and settlements they have to pay for "habitual contract violations." "<br /><br />The issue was whether or not there was recourse for contract violations in the judicial system. If you are claiming there is not you have not provided evidence for that.<br /><br />" I know the face very well "<br /><br />In knowing the faces, are you saying that you are perfectly happy with every single thing that government does because of your certainty that they are motivated to act for the public good? <br /><br />"doctor had to come up with a "medical reason" "<br /><br />The gynocologist is not the insurance company. And he pays an especially high price for his malpractice insurance. I'm glad it all worked out for you, but at least you would have had recourse in the courts if it didn't. I am not sure that would have been the case in a government run system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89146965312614099822012-08-14T08:24:57.054-04:002012-08-14T08:24:57.054-04:00"Difficult to do with accumulated punitive ru..."Difficult to do with accumulated punitive rulings resulting from habitual contract violations."<br /><br />Yeah, poor health insurance companies. They can hardly turn a profit any more because of all the verdicts and settlements they have to pay for "habitual contract violations."<br /><br />"Why does anyone have faith that a faceless government tries to do "public good"?"<br /><br />Faceless? I know the face very well of the U.S. Rep who represents me and the two U.S. Senators as well as the President of the United States. And all 535 House and Senate members got elected by people who should know their faces very well.<br /><br />How about a faceless insurance company making these decisions? Like the time my wife gave birth to our second child at midnight and our doctor had to come up with a "medical reason" to keep her in the hospital beyond the 24 hours the insurance company would cover so that she wouldn't have to be discharged in the middle of the next night?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87093232827510105502012-08-14T08:23:20.746-04:002012-08-14T08:23:20.746-04:00tl;dr:
Some us are willing to pretend there is a...tl;dr: <br /><br />Some us are willing to pretend there is a real debate to be had about whether free-market economics can produce a sane, humane healthcare system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28003995651091620012012-08-14T06:41:28.326-04:002012-08-14T06:41:28.326-04:00"The insurance company has a duty to maximize..."The insurance company has a duty to maximize profits for its shareholders "<br /><br />Difficult to do with accumulated punitive rulings resulting from habitual contract violations.<br /><br />"and is only bound by contracts to the extent that anyone can enforce them. "<br /><br />Insurance companies are sued all the time. The on going risk of litigation against an insurance company is part of the business. Whether or not the court system does a good job in bringing forth and ruling on cases against insurance companies is worthy of discussion but a separate issue.<br /><br />"The government has no profit incentive at all."<br /><br />An incentive that is yet to be shown to be bad in and of itself. We can't be sure about *any* of the incentives government may have one way or the other.<br /><br />"They can afford," <br /><br />Only to the extent that there is faith in their currency and subject to shifting political wills.<br /><br />" and mostly try, to take the route of public good."<br /><br />Why does anyone have faith that a faceless government tries to do "public good"? Who is the arbiteras to what is "public good"?<br /><br /><br />"You don't really seem to have any real familiarity with these issues beyond the talking points."<br /><br />Back at you.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45003870907844234272012-08-13T22:42:41.938-04:002012-08-13T22:42:41.938-04:00To say that insurance companies are only bound by ...To say that insurance companies are only bound by contracts to the extent that they can be enforced, may allow you to make things sound more ominous, but you're not really saying anything.<br /><br />Insurance companies have business owners and shareholders as their customers since most private insurance is obtained via an employer.<br /><br />It's not in the interest of any insurance company to welch on a contract with Kraft than it would be for any other purveyor of goods and services to do such a thing.<br /><br />However, unlike most markets, with these particular dynamics, an individual does not deal directly with the provider of their services. We depend on employers (who receive tax incentives) for that.<br /><br />Whether with Medicare, Medicaid, or private insurance, care will always be rationed. Shore up Medicare and Medicaid, but also give individuals the tax incentives that businesses receive so that they can own their own policies and so the industry can compete for their business.<br /><br /> CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42661298092539374902012-08-13T22:32:20.902-04:002012-08-13T22:32:20.902-04:00Wow!! Right on.Wow!! Right on.TGGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57274434654739828792012-08-13T22:09:20.389-04:002012-08-13T22:09:20.389-04:00The insurance company has a duty to maximize profi...The insurance company has a duty to maximize profits for its shareholders and is only bound by contracts to the extent that anyone can enforce them. <br /><br />The government has no profit incentive at all. They can afford, and mostly try, to take the route of public good. <br /><br />Having said that - what those panels do is not a cost/benefit analysis in terms of asking is this life worth saving. That's actually a lot closer to what insurance companies do. They are, after all, trying to maximize profits. <br /><br />What government run panels attempt to do is set standards of care based on accumulated data and prevent fraud/abuse. There's so much fraud/abuse going on in the privately run systems we have that it accounts for a significant amount of the cost difference between those systems and the more-publicly run ones we have. <br /><br />You don't really seem to have any real familiarity with these issues beyond the talking points. oldmancoyote22http://oldmancoyoteblog.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45670976797582432892012-08-13T20:48:03.010-04:002012-08-13T20:48:03.010-04:00"when an unaccountable bureaucrat working for..."when an unaccountable bureaucrat working for an insurance company makes the decision, that's the free market at work"<br /><br />The "insurance company" is bound by contract. i.e. "accountable". In turn, the correct role of government is to enforce contracts serving as a disinterested party in any dispute.<br /><br />In a government situation, what contract applies? What disinterested third party resolves disputes?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38881051414385224082012-08-13T19:46:42.348-04:002012-08-13T19:46:42.348-04:00In any system of insurance, somebody is going to h...In any system of insurance, somebody is going to have to make those decisions. Somehow when an unaccountable bureaucrat working for an insurance company makes the decision, that's the free market at work, but when an unaccountable government worker makes the same decision, using the same or similar criteria, that's oppressive government one step from 1984 (the book, not the date).ABLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72524826359273934612012-08-13T16:27:33.337-04:002012-08-13T16:27:33.337-04:00"I don't see why liberals don't defen..."I don't see why liberals don't defend the concept."<br /><br />Paul Krugman, sort of:<br /><br />http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/krugman-death-panels-vat/2010/11/14/id/377008Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89521041726512116212012-08-13T15:41:30.261-04:002012-08-13T15:41:30.261-04:00Death panels. That's a catchy name for a real ...Death panels. That's a catchy name for a real process.<br /><br />In a health care system with government set rules, all people will not receive any medicine or treatment that they seek without regard to cost and efficacy.<br /><br />Sometimes, that means denying treatment to someone because it's not worth the money, judged from "society's" point of view.<br /><br />I don't see why liberals don't defend the concept. It's elemental to every health care system with government set rules.<br /><br />Check out the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in the UK. That's their business.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57655327318851000862012-08-13T14:50:08.170-04:002012-08-13T14:50:08.170-04:00The Swiftboat stuff worked. So did the War on Gore...The Swiftboat stuff worked. So did the War on Gore. That means enough rubes bought it, and a less feckless mainstream media probably would have made no difference with those voters. Why shouldn't we, except tactically, which is what you cynically are really talking about, loathe those rubes? How can one have respect for voters who get their opinions from Fox News and think the Affordable Care Act has death panels?<br /><br />Unless, of course, both sides are equally at fault.urban legendnoreply@blogger.com