tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3008593500580143530..comments2024-03-29T06:44:19.414-04:00Comments on the daily howler: THE STORY BEGINS: Alvarez hears a second shot!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8449215785858749652013-07-24T16:31:58.249-04:002013-07-24T16:31:58.249-04:00Yum!Yum!MacCecilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54653177310598524542013-07-24T11:34:42.209-04:002013-07-24T11:34:42.209-04:00People didn't learn [many incorrect] things ab...People didn't learn [many incorrect] things about the case because of reporting, yeah, right. <br /><br />It was Spidey-sense or something, huh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-34265176454908146102013-07-24T08:49:09.102-04:002013-07-24T08:49:09.102-04:00"Too bad it didn't add to Serino's su..."Too bad it didn't add to Serino's suspicion. He thought Zimmerman told the truth and no offense, but he has much more experience than you."<br /><br />Then how come he recommended manslaughter charges be filed after initially thinking 2nd degree murder?<br /><br />*****SANFORD – After Chris Serino, the Sanford police detective who led the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting death, wrote the most important police report in the case, he revised it at least four times.<br /><br />And he made at least one huge change: He initially said George Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder, then changed course and recommended a charge of manslaughter, according to a prosecutor and new list of evidence.<br /><br />Serino made all those revisions to the report summarizing his findings during one five-hour stretch on March 13, according to a newly released evidence list.<br /><br />In the first two drafts, according to Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, Serino wrote that he had probable cause to recommend a second-degree-murder charge. Then, over the next hour, he changed the report twice more and in his final version wrote that the evidence supported the lesser charge.<br /><br />One of Serino's supervisors, Sanford police Capt. Bob O'Connor, said in a July 3 interview that everyone in Serino's chain of command agreed with the investigator's conclusion. Serino's direct supervisor, then-Sgt. Randy Smith, also signed the final version.<br /><br />mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4143907906103756622013-07-24T07:16:27.854-04:002013-07-24T07:16:27.854-04:00"There's really no evidence of "lies..."There's really no evidence of "lies"<br /><br />You must be joking. His interview is littered with lies. In this one he's twisting around trying to explain why he didn't innocently return to his car when they told him not to follow.<br /><br />Just one example:<br /><br />Serino: OK, at the point where he said, are you following him, and he said, we don’t need you to do that, what went through your mind?<br />Zimmerman: He’s right.<br />Serino: So you shoulda stopped and went back to your vehicle.<br />Zimmerman: I still wanted to give him an address.<br /><br />Zimmerman claims he's still looking for an address. Why? Who is this "him" that Zimmerman is referring to? He just told the dispatcher he wanted the police to call him on his cell phone when they arrived, which he knew was only minutes away. So why the fuck is he looking for an address? He just moments earlier told the dispatcher he didn't want to give them an address. He's twisting in the tangled web of lies he's been telling.mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62786647825881987672013-07-24T01:40:51.019-04:002013-07-24T01:40:51.019-04:00Too bad it didn't add to Serino's suspicio...Too bad it didn't add to Serino's suspicion. He thought Zimmerman told the truth and no offense, but he has much more experience than you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33422661892701736182013-07-24T00:46:30.373-04:002013-07-24T00:46:30.373-04:00Oh no, I apparently spoke too soon. Anonymous 3:06...Oh no, I apparently spoke too soon. Anonymous 3:06 p.m. below apparently caught a mistake of Somerby's. He (or she) writes:<br /><br />Sorry Bob, but you missed one. You write that Alvarez did not hear the tape, but her own report says this "the police played the 911 calls in the case for the family and gave copies to the news media."<br /><br />"Copies to the news media"<br /><br />So Alvarez very well may have listened to the tape and decided that she, too, heard the same thing that Natalie Jackson said she did. Mike Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-15169173190544168952013-07-24T00:40:46.206-04:002013-07-24T00:40:46.206-04:00Oh no, I apparently spoke too soon. Anonymous 3:0...Oh no, I apparently spoke too soon. Anonymous 3:06 p.m. below apparently caught a mistake of Somerby's. He (or she) writes:<br /><br />Sorry Bob, but you missed one. You write that Alvarez did not hear the tape, but her own report says this "the police played the 911 calls in the case for the family and gave copies to the news media."<br /><br />"Copies to the news media"<br /><br />So Alvarez very well may have listened to the tape and decided that she, too, heard the same thing that Natalie Jackson said she did. Mike Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-80666526051139343492013-07-23T23:45:24.569-04:002013-07-23T23:45:24.569-04:00Wow, that's the first time I've seen that ...Wow, that's the first time I've seen that transcript. I had suspected Z was lying before based on a careful comparison of his reenactment video on the one hand, and on the other hand, his call to the police, the layout of the area, where M's body was lying, and the timeline on Wiki; not to mention the way he doesn't seem overly sure of what he's going to say next in the reenactment video -- like he's trying to figure out what's in his best interest to say instead of just being honest. And I had always wondered about the apparent two minutes between the time his call ends and the time the fight seems to have begun. This transcript just adds to my suspicion that he's hiding something. It may not be any big deal -- he may have just hung around looking for M and feels that that might make him seem irresponsible -- but he's definitely trying to hide something.Mike Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4739870534794518772013-07-23T23:08:40.349-04:002013-07-23T23:08:40.349-04:00Mr. Somerby, if you are going to criticize the pre...Mr. Somerby, if you are going to criticize the press for adopting a narrative then fitting all that follows into the narrative you have to stop doing it yourself.<br /><br />Today you have included this piece along with an attack on a Times editorial suggesting you,and you alone, are prescinet enough to see the end of civilization because of the failures of our intellectual elite revealed by the flaws of the NYT.<br /><br />Here is the key to you creating, then following the narrative:<br /><br /><strong>Three days later, the Sentinel reported the wave of anger which swept the country because of this lurid portrait. We return to our previous question:</strong><br /><br />You don't link to the Sentinel report you mention, and say you will cove it tomorrow. But your clear implication is the Alvarez NYT article 3/17/12 caused the national wave of anger. By the time of the report you allude to in the NYT, the wave of anger was already sweeping the country. The Sentinel's own report you link the same day as the Times article has the Stanford police chief decrying the media circus. It reporst the Congresswoman and the Mayor of Sanford plan to meet with Attorney General Holder. A separate article in the Sentinel that same day notes a Change.org petition about the case had already garnered a quarter of a million signatures online. <br /><br />Your narrative has it that the egregiously bad NYT is the cause of bad things. I would suggest its bad reporting contributed to the outrage, but did not cause it. An unarmed teen being shot while walking home,<br />and the perception that the local police were not treating it as the crime many thought it clearly was caused the outrage. The release of the 911 tapes, including Zimmerman's statement that "the assholes always get away," caused it to explode nationally. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38414992154355712332013-07-23T22:49:57.420-04:002013-07-23T22:49:57.420-04:00Anonymous 9:40 - nail on head. The kind of analys...Anonymous 9:40 - nail on head. The kind of analysis Somerby did here (and many times before) is so unassailable, meticulous, thorough, careful, clear, devastating, airtight, etc. -- it's something I've never seen done as well anywhere else. My only wish is that he would aim his powers more often at the seemingly larger amount of bullshit that constantly flows from the Right/GOP.Mike Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59421042097863723742013-07-23T21:40:07.096-04:002013-07-23T21:40:07.096-04:00Actually, claiming you won when you really lost is...Actually, claiming you won when you really lost is the "last" weapon. <br /><br />You're doing it perfectly, Fudge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-56035199503975851642013-07-23T21:37:23.693-04:002013-07-23T21:37:23.693-04:00There's really no evidence of "lies"...There's really no evidence of "lies" in what you quoted, you know. If there had been that would've been pretty damning at trial, but it wasn't, so it wasn't.<br /><br />What makes you use the epithet "Georgie Porgie," anyway? Do you suppose it cute? Instead, you come off as a whiny crybaby.<br /><br />Yes, things didn't go your way. Get over it. <br /><br />One thing's clear as a bell, though: You'd have not been able to do anything to aid this hopeless prosecution, despite your endless blather.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-50098888558853324992013-07-23T19:32:03.552-04:002013-07-23T19:32:03.552-04:00no, she said one shot.no, she said one shot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-81073181723028875842013-07-23T19:05:09.126-04:002013-07-23T19:05:09.126-04:00"b-b-but ..."
Sarcasm, the last weapon ..."b-b-but ..."<br /><br />Sarcasm, the last weapon of the defeated mind.<br /><br />Boo-Yaa!Cornelius Fudgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28070927203872673492013-07-23T18:50:22.462-04:002013-07-23T18:50:22.462-04:00Yeah, adversarial questioning. And it didn't ...Yeah, adversarial questioning. And it didn't take much to get little Georgie Porgie all tangled up in his lies.mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-68952848212668564152013-07-23T17:54:24.041-04:002013-07-23T17:54:24.041-04:00Skittles.
People understand them on a gut level.
...Skittles.<br /><br />People understand them on a gut level.<br /><br />You can't make it up! <br /> <br /> <br />(Unless you're "mm") (Hey, wait, that's a candy too. Sorry M&M, you must be of good character, sweetie that you are!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62050218872916611122013-07-23T17:50:27.503-04:002013-07-23T17:50:27.503-04:00Iced tea, your honor.
Goes to the character of t...Iced tea, your honor. <br /><br />Goes to the character of the deceased.<br /><br />What?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57503445088128597932013-07-23T17:47:53.295-04:002013-07-23T17:47:53.295-04:00It's called adversarial questioning, dodo.
I...It's called adversarial questioning, dodo. <br /><br />It means a cop is doing his job. <br /><br />It proves nothing, zero, nada, zilch, bupkis, a big fat goose egg about the "relevance" of Skittles.<br /><br />They don't have any relevance. None. The Skittles are exactly worthless in telling a judge or jury anything about anyone's character or motivations.<br /><br />EVIL people like candy too <br /><br />(If you have two brain cells to rub together, you understand that, and you further understand that it doesn't imply Martin was EVIL either.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19982345747617533822013-07-23T16:58:30.800-04:002013-07-23T16:58:30.800-04:00Hey Anonymous asshole. You sure have a lot of que...Hey Anonymous asshole. You sure have a lot of questions for Trayvon Martin. Unfortunately he's dead and not able to satisfy your burning curiosity of every last detail of his remaining moments alive.<br /><br />Since your so focused on timing and time and how come this and how come that, why don't you ask Zimmerman how come it took him over 120 seconds to walk 30 feet back to his car and then he never actually got back in his car. <br /><br />Serino: When do you start walking back to your car? Time here. You’re going towards Retreat View, right?<br />Zimmerman: Yeah.<br />Serino: OK.<br />(plays tape 2:28 to 2:41)<br />Serino: OK, where you at now?<br />Zimmerman: I think on Retreat View Circle.<br />Serino: OK. Is that 2:41? OK.<br />(plays tape 2:41 to 2:47)<br />Serino: OK, you’re walking back to your car?<br />Zimmerman: Yes, sir,<br />(plays tape 2:48 to 4:03 )<br />Zimmerman: I’m thumping the damn flashlight as I was walking through.<br />(call ends)<br />Singleton: How long is that?<br />Serino: It’s 84 seconds. From the point where you were walking back to your car from Retreat View to Twin Tree basically.<br />Singleton: It’s what, about 30 feet.<br />Serino: That’s a minute and…20 seconds. Did you stop at the “T”?<br />Zimmerman: No, I walked through. I stopped on Retreat View Circle.<br />Serino: That’s where you were standing?<br />Zimmerman: Yes, sir.<br />Serino: OK. But you didn’t get back into your car?<br />Zimmerman: No, sir.<br />Serino: Why not?<br />Zimmerman: I was…<br />Serino: You’re in the rain, you’re getting wet, you’re on the phone.<br />Zimmerman: Because I was waiting, I, the, I had light there…<br /><br />(see, he had the flashlight that wasn't working, so he didn't need to get out of the rain and wait for the police)<br /><br /><br />Serino: So…<br />Zimmerman: Where I was at and I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.<br />Serino: OK, a minute and 20 seconds.<br />Zimmerman: Yes, sir.<br />Serino: OK, you’re in the rain, getting wet. You’ve wrote this guy off basically, you’re gonna meet the police. OK, you see where the obstacle is here?<br />Zimmerman: Yes, sir.<br />mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25545638387044214692013-07-23T16:11:11.228-04:002013-07-23T16:11:11.228-04:00He wasn't on Skittles because the package was ...He wasn't on Skittles because the package was unopened. Why did Serino ignore the cell phone? How did he know what the kids interests were when his first contact with him was as a corpse? Clearly Serino is stating what someone else told him about Martin -- who? How does having $40 in cash and some snacks make you "not a goon"? <br /><br />Here is one of the things that bothers me -- why did Trayvon leave a 12 year old at home that he was supposed to be babysitting? Why was he gone 40 minutes it didn't require that long to go to the store and back? Why is he lingering for 4 minutes instead of going back home, when he thinks someone suspicious is following him? Why does he hang around with kids like Jeantel if he is someone with promise, someone going to be in "avionautics"? Why was that stuff on his cell phone? It doesn't support this characterization of him, obviously supplied by the "folks who care" via his attorney. Is it the place of the police to parrot to others what attorneys tell them or should the police independently verify that stuff? Is every kid who is killed in tragic circumstances automatically an honor student and star athlete (probably somewhere)? I think that cheapens the memory of such kids because it substitutes a fiction for who they were as real people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5182586730699101332013-07-23T15:45:26.220-04:002013-07-23T15:45:26.220-04:00Apparently you jackasses know more than the detect...Apparently you jackasses know more than the detectives about the relevance of the kid carrying a pack Skittles he just bought. It doesn't prove anything all by itself, jackasses. Obviously it's just one piece of the mosaic to help us understand the full picture of what happened that night. Jackasses. People understand on a gut level what it means. Jackasses.<br /><br />Serino: Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He was born in 1995, February the 5th. He was 17 years old. An athlete, um, probably somewhere, somebody who was gonna be in avionautics, um, a kid with a future. A kid with folks that care. In his possession we found a, uh, can of, uh, iced tea and a bag of Skittles. And about $40 in cash. Not a goon.<br /><br /><br />Serino: OK. So you’d understand where this is going from because this, right here, this 17-year-old boy would be one of those kids who would have been a success story. Um, and I wanna know, like I said, everybody wants to know, you know, what set him off. He’s not on PCP, he’s not on anything. He’s on Skittles. <br /><br /><br />mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-81965867056684096882013-07-23T15:37:10.811-04:002013-07-23T15:37:10.811-04:00This doesn't explain the similarity of the wor...This doesn't explain the similarity of the wording.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54966287213396028072013-07-23T15:36:14.584-04:002013-07-23T15:36:14.584-04:00The article says he was carrying nothing but a pac...The article says he was carrying nothing but a package of skittles, some money and an iced tea when he was shot. What about the cell phone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-92140619016125025322013-07-23T15:06:51.841-04:002013-07-23T15:06:51.841-04:00Sorry Bob, but you missed one. You write that Alva...Sorry Bob, but you missed one. You write that Alvarez did not hear the tape, but her own report says this "the police played the 911 calls in the case for the family and gave copies to the news media."<br /><br />"Copies to the news media"<br /><br />So Alvarez very well may have listened to the tape and decided that she, too, heard the same thing that Natalie Jackson said she did.<br /><br />Many people were perhaps hearing what they wanted to hear, and others seem to have been on a crusade to get justice for what they felt was a murdered child.<br /><br />Like the one neighbor who ran to the press and put herself forward as a "witness" because the screaming stopped after the gunshot so she just "knew" it was the "little boy." As if somebody getting pummelled and screaming for help is gonna keep screaming for help after they shoot the person who had been pounding on them. But she was a "witness" and for some reason the police were after "just the facts, ma'am" instead of taking her as a credible witness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-3922813441455328462013-07-23T14:16:18.867-04:002013-07-23T14:16:18.867-04:00Sorry, but we've already established that you ...Sorry, but we've already established that you can't be "casing a joint" if you have Skittles on your person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com