tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3440057085635858533..comments2024-03-29T10:53:25.252-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Relentless spin watch: Mississippi's white schools are mostly black!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-85310926419200705422016-05-20T10:37:16.017-04:002016-05-20T10:37:16.017-04:00"You seem to think it is OK to fudge the numb..."You seem to think it is OK to fudge the numbers." No. I think Somerby is either stupid or lying. Nothing to "fudge" about with a weasel word like "seem."<br /><br />You "seem" to be as stupid as your comments actually make you. So we can eliminate lying as a possibility.<br /><br /><br />Somerby says Hauser made a factual error, and that it was an error incompetent reporters "commonly" make, namely that eligibility for the lunch program is an indicator of poverty.<br /><br />The problem is Hauser never made that error. She simply reported what the Government Accounting Office Report said. I directly quoted from that report. She reported accurately what the government report said.<br />For you to deny that is an indicator that if Bob said the sky was brown you would believe it because your head is up his ascot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78654363238341065192016-05-20T01:00:59.106-04:002016-05-20T01:00:59.106-04:00“LOVE, Happiness, Trust, is the key to LIFE”. That...“LOVE, Happiness, Trust, is the key to LIFE”. That was the word from Dr happy when I consulted his powerful Love Spell. 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Dr happy is a savior and man that keep to his word even when I doubted his powers at the end of the spell. Thank to your Oracle for helping us via happylovespell2@gmail.com<br /><br />Jewel Carol https://www.blogger.com/profile/13452466973226946414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36752341835674704962016-05-19T16:35:09.263-04:002016-05-19T16:35:09.263-04:00My understanding was that these lawsuits and cases...My understanding was that these lawsuits and cases have dragged on in the courts since the days of desegregation. I saw some of the kids from the respective schools being interviewed on the evening news and they saw it as a cross-town rivalry between high schools, and a right-side, wrong-side of the tracks issue, not explicitly racial. Seems like it would be good to disrupt that too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87126137650834440592016-05-19T16:32:08.905-04:002016-05-19T16:32:08.905-04:00Anon 4:26 -- My point is proved by this very post ...Anon 4:26 -- My point is proved by this very post and comments. People are concerned about schools that are segregated, or close to segregated, even though none of the schools are segregated<b> by law.</b> <br /><br />I wonder if you and I are somehow talking past each other...David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49659617449999214712016-05-19T16:26:14.338-04:002016-05-19T16:26:14.338-04:00No, that isn't the message "delivered to ...No, that isn't the message "delivered to the public." It is your distortion. I've never seen it described your way in a textbook, for example. That would be foolish because there have always been bad schools for white students and good schools for black students. The quality of the school isn't the point of Brown v Bd of Education. If it were, the remedy would have been to increase funding for black schools, not desegregate them.<br /><br />You really shouldn't consume conservative propaganda whole cloth like you do. Go read the decision yourself. I'm sure it is available online somewhere. It might wake you up a little to see how these things are being misrepresented over on the conservative websites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21006036917822873172016-05-19T16:19:52.569-04:002016-05-19T16:19:52.569-04:00@11:48
When studies use the % of studies receivin...@11:48<br /><br />When studies use the % of studies receiving free lunches, they are using it as a measure that has a specific definition: 185% of the poverty level and whoever else a school district decides to include. They know that this is not the same as % of students at the poverty level, a statistics schools are less likely to put their hands on from their own records. <br /><br />When reporters gloss this definition and pretend that 185% of the poverty level = poverty, they are overestimating the number of poor students and talking about a different, larger group of students. The problem is that the audience will not understand that because they don't make it clear to them. Those reading a study do understand it.<br /><br />You think this is trivial. It is not. Facts matter and how you handle facts affects your trustworthiness. Journalists are supposed to be able to handle facts well and present reality, not distort it.<br /><br />You object every time Somerby raises this point. Somerby uses this as a marker of journalistic competence. You seem to think it is OK to fudge the numbers -- I'm not sure why. The reporter's characterization was not correct. It was misleading. And it was not the same as the report because the report defined its measure and used it consistently whereas the reporter conflated that measure with poverty. Poverty is measured by family income, not by eligibility for school lunches (especially when a school district decides to offer those lunches to all students, regardless of income, perhaps to avoid stigmatizing poor students). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4382268900276306222016-05-19T15:30:49.120-04:002016-05-19T15:30:49.120-04:00You may be right, Anon 11:35. You make a good poi...You may be right, Anon 11:35. You make a good point. <br /><br />However, regardless of the exact wording of the SCOTUS decision, the message that's been delivered to the public says that all "separate but equal" is inherently unequal, even when the SBE doesn't come about by force of law. David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67910189409346850882016-05-19T12:56:52.968-04:002016-05-19T12:56:52.968-04:00HAS KZ RETURNED?HAS KZ RETURNED?hardindrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05275899305949454964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41971419229035862462016-05-19T12:55:56.378-04:002016-05-19T12:55:56.378-04:00RELENTLESS BOB DEFENDER CHANGINg THE SUBJECT WATCH...RELENTLESS BOB DEFENDER CHANGINg THE SUBJECT WATCH....<br /><br />OK, lying or stupid when Bob writes?:<br /><br /><br />".... you weren't told that in the New York Times.....Hauser's treatment in the Times is the typical New York Times joke.<br /><br />What going on in the Cleveland, Mississippi Public Schools? Brown's report gives readers the basics; Hauser's report does not. But this is typical of the way the New York Times reports such topics, especially if the schools in question are found in the deepest South."<br /><br />Somerby, lamenting something left out by the Times to demonize the South. Damn that New York Times!<br /><br />"Segregation is not just a characteristic of Southern states. Some of the most severely segregated conditions for Latino and African-American students occur in New York, Maryland and Illinois, the Civil Rights Project at the University of California, Los Angeles, said in a report on Monday.<br /><br />Sixty-five percent of New York’s black students attend overwhelmingly nonwhite schools, compared with 45 percent in Mississippi, the report shows."<br /><br />Hauser, in the New York Times, demonizing the south with something Somerby left out.<br /> <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31739075997093976952016-05-19T12:20:31.897-04:002016-05-19T12:20:31.897-04:00OK, lying or stupid when the reporter uses the ter...OK, lying or stupid when the reporter uses the term "historically white?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62473176003594725622016-05-19T11:38:26.020-04:002016-05-19T11:38:26.020-04:00Because confining black students to separate schoo...Because confining black students to separate schools labels them as second-class, less than their white peers. White students know from their everyday social interactions, from their culture, that they are better than black students. They would know that no matter what school they attended. Keeping black students out of white schools communicates a message that they are not good enough to attend those schools (regardless of their actual academic performance) and that message is damaging. If there were no racism in our society, your question would make more sense and white or black students could be treated as if they were interchangeable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-66696856838643221152016-05-19T11:35:27.385-04:002016-05-19T11:35:27.385-04:00David, you need to go back and read the reasoning ...David, you need to go back and read the reasoning in Brown v Board of Education and the studies provided as evidence in it.<br /><br />Separate is not equal because requiring black students by law to attend separate schools places them in a second-class category that is harmful to their aspirations and their identity formation which affects their school performance. This is true independent of the quality of education provided by those separate schools. The fact that they are separate by law creates a second-class status that is harmful to students.<br /><br />Today this phenomenon is called "stereotype threat" and has been extensively studied by Claude Steele at Stanford University.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24445322118319127292016-05-19T11:32:02.310-04:002016-05-19T11:32:02.310-04:00Basic error in logic above:
75-100% OF poor black...Basic error in logic above:<br /><br />75-100% OF poor black/Hispanic students are eligible for free or reduced price lunch<br /><br />therefore those eligible for free or reduced price lunch are black/Hispanic poor<br /><br />This is called the fallacy of affirming the consequent. It is the mistake the reporters were making. Somerby is not lying or stupid when he calls them on it.<br /><br />No one is disputing that there has been an increase in black and Hispanic students who are poor and no one is disputing that poor students are eligible for free lunches. They are disputing that ALL students who qualify for free/reduced-price lunches are necessarily poor. They are not and that conclusion cannot be drawn from the figures you have given any more than from the ones quoted in these articles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32686781425363865732016-05-19T10:48:25.286-04:002016-05-19T10:48:25.286-04:00RELENTLESS BOB LYING WATCH...or is it
Continuing ...RELENTLESS BOB LYING WATCH...or is it<br /><br />Continuing Somerby Stupidity Spotting?<br /><br /><br />"Let's start with a basic factual error. Eligibility for the federal lunch program is not a marker of "poverty." <br /><br />Incompetent journalists commonly say that. But it isn't true."<br /><br />Bob Somerby, hammering a New York Times article and reporters as a stereotyped group.<br /><br />The problem is that Somerby is either stupid or lying. You choose which.<br /><br />Did the reporter make a factual error when she wrote:<br /><br /><strong>The report, by the Government Accountability Office, showed</strong> that 16 percent of public schools had high proportions of poor and black or Hispanic students in the 2013-14 school year, up from 9 percent in 2000-01.<br /><br /><strong>It said</strong> 75 to 100 percent of those students were eligible for free or reduced-price lunches, a commonly used indicator of poverty."<br /><br />Here is what the GAO report says on its first page, in its first paragraph, which is linked in Hauser's article, making it impossible for anyone but a stupid person or a liar to miss:<br /><br />"<strong>What GAO Found</strong><br /><br />The percentage of K-12 public schools in the United States with students who are poor and are mostly Black or Hispanic is growing and these schools share a number of challenging characteristics. From school years 2000-01 to 2013-14 (the most recent data available), the percentage of all K-12 public schools that had high percentages of poor and Black or Hispanic students grew from 9 to 16 percent, according to GAO’s analysis of data from the Department of Education (Education). These schools were the most racially and economically<br />concentrated: 75 to 100 percent of the students were Black or Hispanic and <strong>eligible for free or reduced-price lunch—a commonly used indicator of poverty.</strong>"<br /><br />So, according to lying or stupid Bob Somerby (your choice), Hauser and other reporters are incompetent and errant when they correctly report what a United States government agency states in a report.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13026808482847547552016-05-18T23:51:53.508-04:002016-05-18T23:51:53.508-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-16032228923406204852016-05-18T23:51:39.796-04:002016-05-18T23:51:39.796-04:00Don't know if you're asking a serious ques...Don't know if you're asking a serious question, Cochise, but here's a serious answer. Black students can succeed in all-black schools. In Brown v. Bd of Education, the Supreme Court rightly ruled that racial segregation was unconstitutional, but their justification was a bogus study. <br /> <br />E.g., Thomas Sowell reported that<br /><br /><i>Back in 1899, in Washington, D. C., there were four academic public high schools-- one black and three white.1 In standardized tests given that year, students in the black high school averaged higher test scores than students in two of the three white high schools.<br /><br /> This was not a fluke. It so happens that I have followed 85 years of the history of this black high school-- from 1870 to 1955 --and found it repeatedly equalling or exceeding national norms on standardized tests.3 In the 1890s, it was called The M Street School and after 1916 it was renamed Dunbar High School but its academic performances on standardized tests remained good on into the mid-1950s.</i><br /><br />Read the entire article about this remarkable school at http://www.tsowell.com/speducat.htmlDavid in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60438733613065966852016-05-18T19:49:08.734-04:002016-05-18T19:49:08.734-04:00Black students need to attend schools with white s...Black students need to attend schools with white students in order to succeed, but white students don't need to attend schools with black students.<br /><br />Why is that?Cochisenoreply@blogger.com