tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3494045833204416453..comments2024-03-18T23:02:16.395-04:00Comments on the daily howler: RACE TO THE FINISH: Mississippi building!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54830252276016402172012-11-06T00:16:12.958-05:002012-11-06T00:16:12.958-05:00Are you even serious? How the fuck did Bush ever ...Are you even serious? How the fuck did Bush ever get elected, in your mind? How did he get re-elected? Christ.<br /><br />Bob's so right on this. Many of us liberals have an almost sexual need to cling to racism as an explanation of everything, even when better alternate explanations obviously exist.Free Thinkrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930864062172375494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7177138841034462912012-11-05T13:04:07.774-05:002012-11-05T13:04:07.774-05:00Since self-identified racists would be rare, thoug...Since self-identified racists would be rare, though not non-existent, it would not be possible to determine the percentage of racism that exists among all groups with an exception for groups that exist in a demographic that is tolerant of racism, but if it was not for racism in America President Obama would win the election by a double digit landslide.<br /><br />The fact that Romney's qualifications for the presidency are dubious, at best, how can one not account for racism being one of the determining factors that has kept the presidential campaign, presumably, "too close to call."<br /><br />Podism only accounts for a small minority of those who believe racism still exists in America to an unhealthy degree. While it appears that racists are not the majority of the electorate, one cannot make a sweeping statement that it is no longer a problem in our society.<br /><br />Simply because there are exceptions to the probability that racism continues to exist in America, the fact that they are referred to as exceptions is a proof that supports the idea that racism remains a troubling fact of life. Where the 51% figure, I fear, came from was out of the professors' asses. I assert that the category of liberal cannot be used in the phrase "racist liberal," because being a racist does not find harbor among liberal principles, but can be found in some conservative "principles" such as state's rights, voter suppression, disguised poll taxes, cheating and misleading communications intended to reduce democratic voter turn out especially among the urban poor and areas of minority voter concentration.<br /><br />Is it less racist when a political party cynically uses racism as a tool of manipulation rather than its members actually having racist feelings and beliefs in their personal relationships?gcwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07990785263482839943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32531307217709416992012-11-05T09:20:52.886-05:002012-11-05T09:20:52.886-05:00Simple answer for simpletons:
Because it gets his ...Simple answer for simpletons:<br />Because it gets his face on TV news.gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30300929653750741232012-11-05T02:01:35.151-05:002012-11-05T02:01:35.151-05:00And when, say, Glen Beck does engage in really ugl...And when, say, Glen Beck does engage in really ugly race baiting? He calls it "unfortunate", and moves on fast!Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288008924419574934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84762952291946044622012-11-04T18:52:14.716-05:002012-11-04T18:52:14.716-05:00why has Sheriff Joe Arpaio been sweeping Hispanic ...<i> why has Sheriff Joe Arpaio been sweeping Hispanic barrios for YEARS to roust illegal Latino immigrants</i> <br /><br />Because they're illegal. It's Sheriff's job to deal with people who have broken the law.<br /><br />Would Sheriff Arpaio behave the same way if Arizona had the same number of caucasian illegal immigrants who behaved the same way? There's no way to prove that, one way or another. But, I don't think a law-enforcement offical should apologized for enforcing the law.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1921730164863545012012-11-04T18:01:23.918-05:002012-11-04T18:01:23.918-05:00Thanks for invariably showing yourself to be a hum...Thanks for invariably showing yourself to be a humanbeing rather than a partisan pod person, Mr. Somerby!CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57281833167166309182012-11-04T15:07:51.918-05:002012-11-04T15:07:51.918-05:00but on the other hand, as a long time student of b...but on the other hand, as a long time student of bob somerby, i know that if pres. obama is getting 37% of the overall white vote, the *americans* with irish heritage are probably only giving him like half that, 18% or so. <br /><br />but since americans with irish heritage are polled at 51% in favor of obama, the 37% figure for whites generally must be way off. pres. obama is probably getting, i dont know, 70 or 80 percent of the white vote.<br /><br />game over.<br /><br />http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-american-vote-presidential-election-660332-Nov2012/?utm_source=twitter_selfamerican, u.s. americannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28610178495407698382012-11-04T14:38:58.280-05:002012-11-04T14:38:58.280-05:00since this column involves the appropriate or inap...since this column involves the appropriate or inappropriate application of polling:<br /><br />"THE VAST majority of Irish voters want Barack Obama to win the US presidential election in less than three weeks time, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll. It shows a tiny level of support among the electorate for Republican challenger Mitt Romney.<br />When asked who they would support if they had a vote in the US election, 79 per cent of respondents said Obama while just 5 per cent opted for Romney and 16 per cent had no opinion."<br /><br />http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1022/1224325541894.html<br /><br />>>> obama is a shoe-in now with the luck of the...um... never mind, not that good a luck...american, u.s. americannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52749308257011702082012-11-04T14:21:09.380-05:002012-11-04T14:21:09.380-05:00calling projection central, anon 8:29 please,
y...calling projection central, anon 8:29 please,<br /> <br /><br />you say: “But only a committed(!) liar like lowercaseguy...”<br /><br />>>> as somerbys stand-in (or somerby?) you have a classic case of projection, at best.<br /><br />you say: “And so, true to form, the idiots and fools don't defend it, they merely attack the messenger. “<br /><br />>>> [see my first response above]<br /><br /><br /><br />you quote me and then respond: "how many courageous americans-with-irish-catholic-heritage potential leaders has Somerby held back?" [qouting me]<br /><br />[you responding] "Uhh. You really need to recheck your dosage indication, lowercaseguy. You really (as always) have nothing at all to hang that slur of yours on."<br /><br />>>> {my response] defending ones 'group' ( as though 'we' are a coherent social group) against bigotry is not itself bigotry. <br /><br />somerby has been flamboyantly anti americans-with-irish-catholic-heritage on this site, despite himself apparently having some of that same background. <br /><br />he has used both techniques of the bigot. he has explicitly espoused that americans with iriish-catholic heritage have various bad characteristics.]<br /><br />second, he has repeatedly named people who have or appear to have irish-catholic heritage as the culprit of some misdeed, real or not, all out of proportion to their numbers in that group (such as the media or gop politics); in the second method without mentioning their heritage. <br /><br />google his old site (no comment box), extant into late 2011, in order to get the strongest bigotry:<br /><br />*** site:dailyhowler.com irish catholic *** (old site)<br /><br />the new site has its share of bigotry as well, although not usually as raw. heres a couple of examples from the new site. in the first, note particularly the responses of “lonely eyes” and “quickdraw” to somerbys column and to some of his more outspokenly bigoted readers, or somerby himself perhaps:<br /><br />http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/05/gail-collins-cares-and-wastes-time-and.html<br /><br /><br />---second example, note particularly the comments of “hugh mann”:<br /><br />http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/06/collins-rules-bit-of-regional-bigot.html<br /><br /><br />site:dailyhowler.blogspot.com irish catholic (new site) <br />american, u.s. americannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28296478481477329582012-11-04T12:41:52.324-05:002012-11-04T12:41:52.324-05:00Ah..., a black football player escorts a white hom...Ah..., a black football player escorts a white homecoming queen across the field. Jackie Robinson was a republican. James Meredith is not a liberal. Things change with all deliberate speed.<br />All is good.king quakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-85586618757121758652012-11-04T11:29:40.248-05:002012-11-04T11:29:40.248-05:00David, David, David,
Why do you buy into the BS?
...David, David, David,<br /><br />Why do you buy into the BS?<br /><br />I was being sarcastic!<br /><br />The identity theft involves sending one's payroll deductions to a working SSN account.<br />That money, well over a trillion dollars and growing rapidly, will never go to the illegals paying it.<br /><br />Sure, a few native-born bricklayers and framers are out of work, but most of that is a direct result of the housing bust.<br /><br />The reports of illegals getting on welfare rolls is greatly exaggerated.<br /><br />Voter fraud? Illegal immigrants don't walk into polling booths and demand a ballot.<br /><br />Police and border patrol agents slain? Lies from Jan Brewer and Paul Babeu, supreme race-baiters themselves.<br /><br />One of Babeu's deputies shot himself and claimed it was border-crossers. There was no evidence to support his claim. He was fired. But not after Babeu and Brewer made hay for months.<br /><br />One Border agent was killed in a shootout with drug smugglers. Nobody cares about him because the weapon used was from the Fast & Furious sting operation, which was a local screw-up, and NOT from Eric Holder.<br /><br />One border patrol agent was killed by friendly fire because fellow agents did not use standard ID signals and shot first and asked questions later. <br /><br />The figure of 70% is bruited about by local politicians and right-wing extremists, without proof.<br /><br />And, pray tell, why has Sheriff Joe Arpaio been sweeping Hispanic barrios for YEARS to roust illegal Latino immigrants. Because of their clothing or accents? Get real!<br /><br />Your comment about caucasians is sophistry, and garbled sophistry, at that.<br />gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84669411484174522012012-11-04T09:33:42.490-05:002012-11-04T09:33:42.490-05:00Thanks for illustrating the point of my last comme...Thanks for illustrating the point of my last comment, gravymeister. SB70 has a number of valid purposes, as you noted. Furthermore, SB70 specifically bans racial profiling. Yet, you and your ilk decided that that support of SB70 proves racism, just as warts proved being a witch.<br /><br />To scientifically show that SB 70 proves racism, you'd have to show that Americans don't have the same objection to mass illegal immigration of caucasians. We haven't experienced mass illegal immigration of caucasians, but 100 there was plenty of objection to mass <i>legal</i> immigration by caucasian immigrants.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39770123178050184622012-11-04T09:12:48.605-05:002012-11-04T09:12:48.605-05:00As every Arizonan that supports SB 1070 will tell ...As every Arizonan that supports SB 1070 will tell you, it's not about race.<br /><br />Why, they love their Latinos, and their Latinos love them!<br /><br />Where have I heard that before? Somewhere in Virginia in the 1950's I think.<br /><br />No, SB 1070 has Nothing to do with brown skin, it is all about identity theft, loss of jobs to American citizens, illegal immigrants getting government handouts on the taxpayer's dime, and mass killings of policemen and border patrol agents.<br /><br />And don't forget 70% of all Americans think Arizona is on the right track with SB 1070, (but not Mitt Romney, of course).<br /><br />I think Bob might admit someone is a racist if they were seen wearing a hooded white robe emblazoned with a red Templar cross, carrying a shotgun and a noose, and standing in the bed of a pickup truck at midnight.<br /><br />Evidently, anything short of that is insufficient evidence.<br /><br /> gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72344564861081855452012-11-04T08:52:30.738-05:002012-11-04T08:52:30.738-05:00Bob is cherry picking polls in his original attack...Bob is cherry picking polls in his original attack on the methodology, and then has forgotten how the polling back in 2008 did reveal significant white concern over the black candidate, Obama, including among Democratic Party voters. Since Bob likes anecdotes, doesn't he recall the white rural Pennsylvania man who told an Obama canvasser a few weeks before the election, and after the economy had cratered, "We're votin' for the nigger!" <br /><br />Racism is not a predictor of how a person votes all the time. Racism is itself a manifestation of the limits of our own rationality. Instead of his heated rhetoric around the edge of the report, and his U of Miss. anecdote, Bob should have done far more analysis the questions and answers given before ripping it.Mitchell J. Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09999515428915501896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7765838839188895832012-11-04T08:29:05.842-05:002012-11-04T08:29:05.842-05:00"you dispute others methodology...with anecdo..."you dispute others methodology...with anecdote?"<br /><br />Actually, it IS just an anecdote!<br /><br />But only a committed(!) liar like lowercaseguy could pretend that this post constitutes Somerby's argument this survey of "racist" attitudes.<br /><br />This post is, of course, just as its subtitle tells us, merely an "epilogue."<br /><br />There have been many thoughtful points of actual argument already made against this ridiculous, laughable survey earlier in the series.<br /><br />It is not really defensible.<br /><br />And so, true to form, the idiots and fools don't defend it, they merely attack the messenger. Ineffectively.<br /><br />"how many courageous americans-with-irish-catholic-heritage potential leaders has Somerby held back?"<br /><br />Uhh. You really need to recheck your dosage indication, lowercaseguy. You really (as always) have nothing at all to hang that slur of yours on.<br /><br />And Mitchell J. Friedman, you could not be more disingenuous if you tried. Pretending that Somerby is arguing against the existence of racism is hallucinatory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82031870120527560852012-11-04T01:25:02.041-04:002012-11-04T01:25:02.041-04:00>>> if bobby kennedy had lived and won, ...>>> if bobby kennedy had lived and won, the parties might very well not be as divided along racial lines as they are today... as indicated by this quote from, “why the democrats are blue: secular liberalism and the decline of the peoples party”, by mark stricherz, pg. 125:<br /><br />“in the 1968 campaign, most democrats recognized that the party had to change. the most important voice in this regard was bobby kennedy, the 42 year old senator from new york. kennedy believed that the party should reach out to new voters, but not at the expense of its old ones. he envisioned a “black-blue or “have not” coalition – an electoral alliance that added one new constituency, principally the young baby boomers and opponents of the war, ***but did not downgrade the interests of two old constituencies, blue collar workers and catholics.***” [***'s mine]<br /><br />>>> can you imagine if robert “to hell or connaught” somerby were around back then, the job he would have done on these two truly courageous americans-with-irish-catholic-heritage, jfk and rfk? would we have ever heard of them? how many courageous americans-with-irish-catholic-heritage potential leaders has he and his like held back? how many more truly courageous americans will they keep out, allowing us to select only from the go along to get along type? <br /><br />“america today without the kennedys” would that title sell?american, u.s. americannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8659929343991879002012-11-04T00:26:30.584-04:002012-11-04T00:26:30.584-04:00"Of course we don't execute racists."..."Of course we don't execute racists." And, in fact, being racist or expressing racists views isn't even against the law. And since there are no actual tribunals, there are neither burdens of proof nor convictions. In fact, the "accused" isn't required to pay the slightest mind to the accusations. And should someone so "accused" wish to reply to this insult, he may produce evidence of his prior statements, acts, and relationships. <br /><br />In other words, accusations of racism resemble witch trials in that they bear no resemblance to witch trials.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-66031533824701476322012-11-03T20:46:54.514-04:002012-11-03T20:46:54.514-04:00"Meanwhile, today, liberals win elections by ..."Meanwhile, today, liberals win elections by accusing conservatives of racism." I think the point of many of B. Somerby's posts is that this is how liberals lose elections.<br /><br />As for this post, strange, and off in the way B. Somerby's postings on race, and on academia, often are. Certainly Ole Miss seems like a much more interesting place than many people appreciate, and stories like this should be more widely disseminated. But to assume that "professors" overall disdain subtlety about racial attitudes in this country and disdain southerners generally (we should assume this because MSNBC has Melissa Harris-Perry on its payroll? because Rachel Maddow was a Rhodes Scholar? btw, Professor Harris-Perry was raised and largely educated in the south and now teaches at Tulane -- she IS a southerner; Rachel Maddow has never been a professor) is a rather peculiar way to go about constructing an argument which any of us should pay any attention to. mchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43016845200378483762012-11-03T19:53:57.895-04:002012-11-03T19:53:57.895-04:00My point exactly. Thank you for making it the fir...My point exactly. Thank you for making it the first comment. I just don't get Bob on the subject of race. The need to deny racism is strange. One certainly can overstate racism, and we've made great strides. But it's still there...Mitchell J. Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09999515428915501896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1171507376303176082012-11-03T19:27:48.447-04:002012-11-03T19:27:48.447-04:00In some ways accusations of racism resemble witch ...In some ways accusations of racism resemble witch trials. Of course we don't execute racists, but being a racist is considered bad or even evil. <br /><br />The major resemblance is in the conveniently shifting standards of evidence. Evidence of racism, likes evidence of witchcraft, is whatever the accuser says. And, once a person is accused, the burden of proof is on him or her to prove s/he's not a racist or witch. But, there's way to absolutely prove one isn't a racist or witch, so the accusation pretty much amounts to a conviction. <br /><br />In both cases, the accusations can be self-serving. In Salem in the 1600's one of the chief accusers was a women whose husband got the property of anyone judged a witch. Meanwhile, today, liberals win elections by accusing conservatives of racism.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91771182219988993022012-11-03T14:58:31.229-04:002012-11-03T14:58:31.229-04:00you dispute others methodology...with anecdote? you dispute others methodology...with anecdote? american, u.s. americannoreply@blogger.com