tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3863143583498749203..comments2024-03-28T18:09:42.367-04:00Comments on the daily howler: CARR WRECK: The case of the alleged racial slur!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55763606332590115582012-05-01T17:49:52.263-04:002012-05-01T17:49:52.263-04:00Then you surely agree that had Z followed a "...Then you surely agree that had Z followed a "suspicious looking" woman, went after her, had sex with her, then reported she attacked him so he had to shoot her "in fear of his life", then what Z says just has to be true. After all, who is there to dispute it? <br /><br />There seems to be a new "crazy" infecting the perceptions of some people where killers always tell the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54445672760968178952012-04-28T14:14:00.686-04:002012-04-28T14:14:00.686-04:00Zimmerman likely did not commit any crime that nig...Zimmerman likely did not commit any crime that night, and the most unjustified act on his part was leaving his vehicle. Shooting Martin in self-defense is not a crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-3888357328935860742012-04-27T22:03:05.697-04:002012-04-27T22:03:05.697-04:00John, this is something I've been saying to th...<i>John, this is something I've been saying to the Zimmerman apologists for quite some time. They tend to look at this incident only from Zimmerman's perspective and come up with all sorts of reasons for the guy to get out of his vehicle with a loaded gun and follow the kid.</i><br /><br />That's not exactly true. Most Zimmerman defenders think that in retrospect it's too bad he didn't stay in his vehicle. Many of us think if Martin had attacked Zimmerman and run away or even killed him, he might have had a weaker but legitimate SYG claim.<br /><br />The fact that it's "too bad" Zimmerman didn't stay in his vehicle doesn't mean he committed a crime when he followed Martin, whether the reason was to see where Martin was going or to find an address for the police. The fact that Martin might put forth a successful self-defense claim if he prevailed in the physical altercation doesn't mean Zimmerman did not have a self-defense claim.<br /><br />The Zimmerman attackers were and are quick to vilify and unleash a lynch mob on someone whose worst "crime" that night was likely limited to exercising imperfect but not indefensible judgment when he decided to leave his vehicle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48610622517581067222012-04-27T16:04:27.807-04:002012-04-27T16:04:27.807-04:00Agreed with Anon @ 7:24 AM. From Martin's per...Agreed with Anon @ 7:24 AM. From Martin's perspective, there's a guy he doesn't know who pops up, follows him, confronts him, and starts asking hostile questions. Martin doesn't know who the hell this guy is, and I've never read any account that suggested that Zimmerman identified himself. Then at some point it becomes evident that Zimmerman has a gun. In Martin's mind, isn't he the one who's randomly being made the victim of a crime? Isn't he just fighting back against a stranger who just won't go away?<br /><br />Of course, I have a hard time picturing the Sanford authorities, after a confrontation that _Martin_ survived and in which _Zimmerman_ perished, saying, "Meh, Stand Your Ground probably applies here, not a lot we can do about this poor shmoe."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-11985426012445654052012-04-27T13:45:36.813-04:002012-04-27T13:45:36.813-04:00But if you look at it from both people's persp...But if you look at it from both people's perspective, you have a complicated tragedy that doesn't advance anyone's political agenda. And where's the fun in that?John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8553666252047600252012-04-27T11:53:12.701-04:002012-04-27T11:53:12.701-04:00*Ibid, 4*Ibid, 4Lewishttp://twitter.com/tuppingtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18671945932389727152012-04-27T11:52:09.092-04:002012-04-27T11:52:09.092-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Frank Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10261942757286808527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47105186474787936012012-04-27T11:49:39.243-04:002012-04-27T11:49:39.243-04:00I did the homework, I ripped the half second whisp...I did the homework, I ripped the half second whisper and slowed it down. It's a long "oh". If anything he said "fucking cone" perhaps because he tripped over a traffic cone.<br /><br />Or, it was raining, one dude wearing a hoodie, had his hands in his pants, and it was windy (audibly), and it was also "fucking cold."<br /><br />Anyway, all this griping about media bias deserves a reality check from Orwell that goes especially to you gun maniacs who creed now is that working yourself into high pitched hysteria over someone who looks black, YES HE'S A BLACK MALE UP TO NO GOOD is the most rational argument:<br /><br />"I have little direct evidence about the atrocities in the Spanish civil <br />war. I know that some were committed by the Republicans, and far more <br />(they are still continuing) by the Fascists. But what impressed me then, <br />and has impressed me ever since, is that atrocities are believed in or <br />disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone <br />believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his <br />own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence."<br />(Looking back on the Spanish Civil War - page 2)<br /><br />"At this moment, a man presumably carrying a <br />message to an officer, jumped out of the trench and ran along the top of <br />the parapet in full view. He was half-dressed and was holding up his <br />trousers with both hands as he ran. I refrained from shooting at him. It <br />is true that I am a poor shot and unlikely to hit a running man at a <br />hundred yards, and also that I was thinking chiefly about getting back to <br />our trench while the Fascists had their attention fixed on the <br />aeroplanes. Still, I did not shoot partly because of that detail about <br />the trousers. I had come here to shoot at 'Fascists'; but a man who is <br />holding up his trousers isn't a 'Fascist', he is visibly a <br />fellow-creature, similar to yourself, and you don't feel like shooting at <br />him. "<br /><br />(ibid , page 2)Lewishttp://twitter.com/tuppingtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13056802588323027962012-04-27T10:24:26.541-04:002012-04-27T10:24:26.541-04:00But there is only one dead body.
John, this is so...But there is only one dead body.<br /><br />John, this is something I've been saying to the Zimmerman apologists for quite some time. They tend to look at this incident only from Zimmerman's perspective and come up with all sorts of reasons for the guy to get out of his vehicle with a loaded gun and follow the kid.<br /><br />When you also look at it from Trayvon Martin's perspective, you also might come to the conclusion that there was more than one guy who feared for his safety if not his life.<br /><br />So the question to me becomes upon whose ground was each of them standing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74652512260669670502012-04-26T23:12:17.695-04:002012-04-26T23:12:17.695-04:00What is this "liberal media" you speak o...What is this "liberal media" you speak of? Mother Jones Magazine?<br /><br />BertoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65536162326788276712012-04-26T22:42:19.918-04:002012-04-26T22:42:19.918-04:00Just like a person attacking someone runs the risk...Just like a person attacking someone runs the risk that the person may be armed, following a person runs the risk that the person being followed may take it as a threat and attack. There's more than one bad decision involved in this tragedy.John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87044767829666165612012-04-26T22:37:15.892-04:002012-04-26T22:37:15.892-04:00It may not justify a physical attack, but the atta...It may not justify a physical attack, but the attack is not unprovoked.John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23166584630180053962012-04-26T19:48:00.463-04:002012-04-26T19:48:00.463-04:00Yes I would indeed expect a person with a gun to u...Yes I would indeed expect a person with a gun to use it if attacked in the way Zimmerman appears to have been attacked. And yes, what Martin might have been doing or not doing earlier is not relevant in that moment.<br /><br />Zimmerman's interest in reporting people he found suspicious could reflect the recent events in his neighborhood and a reasonable, human response to them by a frustrated homeowner but his level of vigilance seems unusual. Even if it is, an unusual level of interest and vigilance is not criminal and does not justify a physical attack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28752224690132757492012-04-26T19:44:00.755-04:002012-04-26T19:44:00.755-04:00Especially if I were in an environment strange to ...Especially if I were in an environment strange to me.John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82999368969000645332012-04-26T19:42:59.567-04:002012-04-26T19:42:59.567-04:00I don't know if you can rightly call the attac...I don't know if you can rightly call the attack "unprovoked" even if Zimmerman is telling the truth. He actually was following, or shadowing, or whatever you want to call it, a suspicious person, who turned out to be Martin. I would certainly find it threatening to have someone following me.John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36875538121580211712012-04-26T18:52:36.612-04:002012-04-26T18:52:36.612-04:00MSNBC is off my play list but Bob, maybe you shoul...MSNBC is off my play list but Bob, maybe you should listen for yourself. I found the tape words to be clear myself. Here's a repeating isolation of the critical seconds on the tape:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvoLacywoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9147429757983392582012-04-26T18:48:25.036-04:002012-04-26T18:48:25.036-04:00If one believes Z's story, M had made an unpro...If one believes Z's story, M had made an unprovoked attack on Z and was banging his head against the sidewalk. If that's true, then I don't think it's relevant that M was not <i>initially</i> committing any offense. If you did what M allegedly did, and the person you attacked had a gun, wouldn't you expect that your victim might shoot you?<br /><br />Anon, you say Z had a zealous hero complex. According to the Reuters article I linked to, he really was a kind of neighborhood hero, helping to protect people against break-ins and robberies that had become common.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44613595738140646142012-04-26T18:40:43.648-04:002012-04-26T18:40:43.648-04:00Oh yeah! Well, you photoshopped your papercut!Oh yeah! Well, you photoshopped your papercut!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43734371611676049932012-04-26T18:35:33.537-04:002012-04-26T18:35:33.537-04:00The fact is, it is possible for a person with a ze...The fact is, it is possible for a person with a zealous hero complex to set events in motion that lead to him legitimately killing someone in self-defense who was not initially committing any offense. <br /><br />Wrap your heads around it because it's the law and it is defensible, a reality that is distorted and lost on more than a few rubes when an irrelevant racial dimension is introduced by a lynch mob.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52747335676196313502012-04-26T18:12:54.442-04:002012-04-26T18:12:54.442-04:00This part was very interesting. Apparently our cr...This part was very interesting. Apparently our crazed racist stalker wasn't too eager to follow people he suspected of committing the crimes in his neighborhood (and in this case his suspicions were accurate).<br /><br /><i>On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.<br /><br /><b>"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. </b>The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49299745056876395152012-04-26T18:02:39.535-04:002012-04-26T18:02:39.535-04:00The Martin case warrants the coverage here because...The Martin case warrants the coverage here because we can witness the lying and lynch-mobbing before our eyes in real time. <br /><br />The only reason for the complaints is that Bob is revealing the inconvenient truth to many who so badly wanted a neat and clean lynching with no bothersome complexity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-56903118397131912002012-04-26T17:59:53.539-04:002012-04-26T17:59:53.539-04:00The consequences of manufacturing racism and sprea...The consequences of manufacturing racism and spreading false information in a case like this, in a country like this with our horrendous racial history, are foreseeable, predictable and tragic. That's why this story is important. If nobody else dies as a result of this shameful irresponsibility I'll be surprised. Thank you Bob for addressing it.John Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637351629319676659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24358755676203742592012-04-26T17:50:43.656-04:002012-04-26T17:50:43.656-04:00The Reuters article says that there had been sever...The Reuters article says that there had been several break-ins in the complex, allegedly by young black males. So maybe it was racial profiling, or at least maybe it was Martin's race that made him look suspicious to Zimmerman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48348066856611868582012-04-26T17:22:19.222-04:002012-04-26T17:22:19.222-04:00Actually, since the charges were filed, the time s...Actually, since the charges were filed, the time spent on the Trayvon Martin case has dropped dramatically, even on MSNBC.<br /><br />For example, last night, the hated Ed Schultz had segments on the student loan interest battle, the Wisconsin recall, the Postal Service crisis, Mitt Romney's potential VPs, the right-wing freakout over Obama's appearance on Jimmy Fallon, and Sean Hannity telling how wonderful beans and rice are for poor people to eat.<br /><br />Nothing about Trayvon Martin.<br /><br />The despised Rachel Maddow did segments on Romney and his problems with the Latino vote and his ever changing stand on immigration, the problems veterans returning from combat are having in getting mental health care, a "obit" of sorts on the Newt Gingrich campaign, the student loan crisis including an interview with Education Secretary Arne Duncan --- and nothing on Trayvon Martin.<br /><br />Lawrence O'Donnell had a segment on an Inauguration Day meeting of Republican leadership to oppose everything Obama proposed, the Obama appearance on O'Fallon, and interview with Bob Kerrey, and a poignant interview with Rodney King which was the only segment all night long that touched on the Trayvon Martin case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10110902257357215232012-04-26T16:36:09.728-04:002012-04-26T16:36:09.728-04:00Bob writes about the liberal media. The liberal m...Bob writes about the liberal media. The liberal media has been 24/7 TrayVon for the past month. When they start talking about something else, I'm sure he'll write about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com