tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post51491211708427599..comments2024-03-28T15:22:06.016-04:00Comments on the daily howler: What are children being told?<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-16728129536184380932022-12-15T04:05:14.450-05:002022-12-15T04:05:14.450-05:00Yeah, I love children too. Named for the beautifu...Yeah, I love children too. Named for the beautiful depths of the ocean, I think you will like <a href="https://thegreencrystal.com/product/orca-agate-freeform/" rel="nofollow">orca agate freeform</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-16697150659191021032013-07-25T12:33:56.864-04:002013-07-25T12:33:56.864-04:00Just so I'm totally clear on the timeline, whe...Just so I'm totally clear on the timeline, when exactly was it that that racist called him a "cracker." <br /><br />Do we know the timing for that racist comment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70392003283871098092013-07-24T13:35:51.256-04:002013-07-24T13:35:51.256-04:00(continued from deadrat's previous comment)
N...(continued from deadrat's previous comment)<br /><br />Now, there are a couple of interesting questions here. One that's not yours and one that is.<br /><br />Not yours: Why didn't the defense object to hearsay testimony? I can only guess, and if that's of interest to you, history says I can comment at length.<br /><br />Yours: Why would she lie? She's probably not; she's probably reporting her conversation accurately. She's just not in a position to vouch for the truth of what she's been told; she can only say what she's been told.<br /><br />I think your underlying question is why would Martin lie to her? Why can't you trust what he tells her on the phone? I'm just not very trusting of interested parties when it comes to determining criminal liability. I don't trust Zimmerman's accounts entirely and he's giving a first-hand account if not testimony, and most of what he said agrees with Jeantel's account of what she reports Martin said.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59736211241060747712013-07-24T13:35:16.394-04:002013-07-24T13:35:16.394-04:00HB,
You give excellent grovel, and I thank you fo...HB,<br /><br />You give excellent grovel, and I thank you for noting that I'm not part of the Zimmerman attack squad. You're only the second person on these comments to acknowledge a mistake.<br /><br />Let's move on to hearsay. For purposes of discussion, let's restrict ourselves to witness testimony. Hearsay is any evidence a witness gives to substantiate a fact not known through the direct knowledge of the witness but rather through the statements of other parties. Thus, hearsay is something a witness reports as true because she <b>hear</b>d someone <b>say</b> it was true (thus the name) rather than something a witness reports as true because she experienced it. The latter is known as direct testimony.<br /><br />There are two parts to determine whether a statement is hearsay: 1) whether it is a report of another person's observation and 2) whether the statement is offered as evidence of the truth of the other person's observation.<br /><br />If a witness testifies that another person said something for the purposes of proving what the person said, that's not hearsay. If a witness testifies that another person said something for the purposes of proving that what the person said is true, that is hearsay.<br /><br />Direct testimony:<br /><br />Q: Did you ever hear Mr. Jones denigrate Mr. Smith?<br />A: Yes, Jones told me Smith was a thief.<br /><br />Hearsay:<br /><br />Q: How do you know Smith is a thief?<br />A: Jones told me Smith was a thief.<br /><br />Same answer both times, but in the first case the witness testifies to a derogatory statement that he, himself heard, so it's direct testimony. In the second case the witness offers what he heard as proof of the truth of what he heard, so it's hearsay.<br /><br />Generally speaking, hearsay is considered unreliable and thus inadmissible. But there are two wrinkles. The first is that there are a number of exceptions to the general rule. Three well-known examples are excited utterance, admission against interest, and dying declaration. The law considers that people tell the truth when they are surprised into making spontaneous statements, when they say things unflattering about themselves, and when they know they're dying.<br /><br />Inadmissible hearsay: <br /><br />Q: How do you know Smith is a thief?<br />A: Jones told me Smith was a thief.<br /><br />Admissible hearsay:<br /><br />Q: How do you know Smith is a thief?<br />A: Smith told me that he stole the money.<br /><br />The second consideration is that hearsay is ruled admissible or not by the judge, but only upon objection from one of the attorneys.<br /><br />Every answer that Jeantel gave about Martin's whereabouts is hearsay to the truth of where Martin actually stood. She doesn't have any direct knowledge that Martin was leaving the "mail area." The only reason she knows that fact is that Martin told her.<br /><br />Her testimony that Martin yelled "Get off! Get off!" was hearsay but admissible under the excited utterance exception.<br /><br />Her testimony that Martin said he was being followed by a "creepy-assed cracker" was direct testimony to show that he used a racial slur but inadmissible hearsay to show that someone was actually following him. Unless Jeantel was there that night to actually see someone following Martin, she can't give direct testimony that he was followed. But she actually heard the words "creepy-assed cracker," so her testimony is direct that he said it.<br /><br />I hope I've been clear.<br /><br />(continued on deadrat's next comment)deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75477089876646703602013-07-23T23:13:17.082-04:002013-07-23T23:13:17.082-04:00It doesn't? Thousands of black teenagers are ...It doesn't? Thousands of black teenagers are murdered every year in this country. I don't see much empathy from you or most other liberals. You don't even know their names. Apparently you haven't been ginned up enough to empathize with these victims.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47877194026840161952013-07-23T22:39:31.894-04:002013-07-23T22:39:31.894-04:00Fine, here goes.
No I did not read you properly....Fine, here goes. <br /><br />No I did not read you properly. I flew off the handle after reading only some of what you wrote and I unfairly assumed that you were one of the Zimmerman attackers. I fucked up and I hereby sincerely apologize for being an asshole. Jesus, what a schmuck!<br /><br />Now that that's over with (and I do hope you accept my sincere taking responsibility for my bullshit), I still don't see any logical reason for dismissing Jeantel's description of the events as hearsay. You have established that it's admissible in court, no? And she is the only real witness with any sort of close-to-reliable clue about Trayvon's whereabouts, correct? <br /><br />So, on what rational basis do you dismiss her good-enough-for court testimony? Why would she lie or make up something like that? Remember, she says that she told TM to run to which, according to her, Trayvon told her that he was near where he was staying. Is this not far and away the most solid evidence we have for where Trayvon went while Zimmerman was on the phone with Sanford PD? Simply calling it "hearsay" does not seem to prove much at all. If it's good enough to stand up in court don't you need something more persuasive than mere labeling in order to dismiss this? <br /><br />The thing about the Piers Morgan show is that it is not court testimony but, again, why would she say something like that if it wasn't true? Doesn't this smack of someone who is damning their friend but is too stupid to know it? Since she seems to have established TM's whereabouts and thereby established that he had to have double-backed on Zimmerman instead of escaping to safety after her suggestion that Zimmerman wanted to rape him is this not in fact the best explanation for what happened that night? <br /><br />You can call it hearsay and make snide remarks about Piers Morgan but I see no reason not to listen to her. When people shade the truth it's generally to make themselves and their friends look better. When people let slip things that make them look bad or guilty, that's usually a lot closer to the truth. <br /><br />Also, let's not forget that the physical evidence strongly indicates that Martin was overwhelmingly the aggression and that Zimmerman seems far and away to have gotten the worst of it up until the gun shot.<br /><br />Although the case against him never made much sense to me from day one, I was for a time, quite willing to believe that Zimmerman was the bad guy provided some sort of convincing evidence was shown. Near as I can tell it never was. Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74212218781042426592013-07-23T21:40:50.098-04:002013-07-23T21:40:50.098-04:00The unnecessary death of a teenager does not requi...The unnecessary death of a teenager does not require "ginning up" to solicit empathy.gcwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07990785263482839943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70158927564655424862013-07-23T21:32:21.282-04:002013-07-23T21:32:21.282-04:00No, you don't hate to be rude, otherwise you w...No, you don't hate to be rude, otherwise you wouldn't resort to it so quickly.<br /><br />Your post strongly hinted that it was about what Somerby wrote: It wasn't a response to anything anyone specifically wrote, since you quoted no one and didn't reply to any post. "Bob" is the only person you mentioned.<br /><br />Clearly, using The Internets isn't your strong suit, so you're forgiven, but at least I won't pretend I hate being rude to you, you stupid prick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-50685887798315833392013-07-23T20:54:14.415-04:002013-07-23T20:54:14.415-04:00And the guns, fighting, drugs, suspensions, and ev...And the guns, fighting, drugs, suspensions, and eviction by his mother?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89804227679119876422013-07-23T20:15:36.941-04:002013-07-23T20:15:36.941-04:00Anonymous @ 6:21P,
"No Limit NIggas" is...Anonymous @ 6:21P,<br /><br />"No Limit NIggas" is a rap song. Parents about their kids' generation's music and white people about race -- setting the zero on the clueless scale for decades. deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-66239667907053547422013-07-23T20:06:48.241-04:002013-07-23T20:06:48.241-04:00HB,
Speak of the devil and he appears before you ...HB,<br /><br />Speak of the devil and he appears before you in commentary.<br /><br />Nothing satisfies me more than the groveling of ignoramuses, so thank you in advance for that.<br /><br />I'll pretend that after the groveling, nothing satisfies me more than being corrected by ignoramuses, so I'll claim to look forward to your pointing out the conspicuous holes in my argument.<br /><br />But let's save some time and effort: My argument requires neither the villainy of Zimmerman nor the illegality of anything he did. My argument requires neither the sainthood of Martin nor the legality of anything he did. You claim to be looking for me, but your previous comments lead me to believe that you've mistaken me for others. Perhaps I just look suspicious, lurking around TDH in the rain in my hoodie, peering into other people's comments.<br /><br />Let the groveling begin.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65376566481035057052013-07-23T19:57:01.174-04:002013-07-23T19:57:01.174-04:00Anonymous @ 1:50P,
At the risk of turning into TD...Anonymous @ 1:50P,<br /><br />At the risk of turning into TDH, we have a witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman (as identified by the color of their clothing) but who didn't see any blows. I think we can take it as a given that Martin struck Zimmerman.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64476780329974236822013-07-23T19:01:03.433-04:002013-07-23T19:01:03.433-04:00"Must these people earn their social badges o..."Must these people earn their social badges on the backs of the public?"<br /><br />Apparently.Stoeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57172660584380903702013-07-23T18:27:13.321-04:002013-07-23T18:27:13.321-04:00Anonynmous at 6:26 PM
You owe me a beer.Anonynmous at 6:26 PM<br /><br />You owe me a beer.Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78533119072271670642013-07-23T18:26:22.642-04:002013-07-23T18:26:22.642-04:00Nope, not from when he said OK. From the time he ...Nope, not from when he said OK. From the time he said "he's running" before he left his car (to which the dispatcher asked for more information as to which way he was running)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37305661526719083222013-07-23T18:26:22.341-04:002013-07-23T18:26:22.341-04:00Oh, Anonymous at 4:11.
Oops, I missed you.
Well...Oh, Anonymous at 4:11.<br /><br />Oops, I missed you. <br /><br />Well, OK then. You tell me where Trayvon was during those four minutes, especially since Rachel Jeantel put him at his father's girlfriend's place while on the stand. You tell me how he got all the way back to meet GZ over two largish condo buildings away. <br /><br />Please. Let me see your explanation. OK? Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54883974747218828962013-07-23T18:21:18.563-04:002013-07-23T18:21:18.563-04:00No, most do not have names like NO_LIMIT_NIGGA and...No, most do not have names like NO_LIMIT_NIGGA and discuss illegal firearms transactions, fighting, drugs, ditching school, being kicked out of their homes by their mothers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61490032030512344952013-07-23T18:09:52.315-04:002013-07-23T18:09:52.315-04:00A couple of days ago, Joe Scarborough went on an e...A couple of days ago, Joe Scarborough went on an error-filled tirade about the Zimmerman verdict that should serve as a touchstone for self-serving pandering ginned-up 'moral outrage' that declares the entire universe irrelevant next to some half-baked narrative.<br /><br />Must these people earn their social merit badges on the backs of the public? CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47138288384713614942013-07-23T17:49:31.610-04:002013-07-23T17:49:31.610-04:00Anon. 5:40P. I wrote @ 4:07P "The condescensi...Anon. 5:40P. I wrote @ 4:07P "The condescension at this site...". No mention of Somerby (except for his preemptive insult). I hate to be rude but, again, to repeat, cognition is not your strong suit. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30102464259370303692013-07-23T17:42:44.651-04:002013-07-23T17:42:44.651-04:00I don't much care what your "right wing s...I don't much care what your "right wing sites" have been doing, Jeeves.<br /><br />I do know what the mainstream, much more listened-to, newspapers and TV programs have been doing. I think it's reasonable to suppose they've been more influential. Somerby hasn't been wrong about them. <br /><br />Does the malfeasance of the mainstream bother you? Or should we join you in worrying more about smaller gutter sites?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64997148354838621752013-07-23T17:40:01.322-04:002013-07-23T17:40:01.322-04:00The condescension at this site toward black parent...The condescension at this site toward black parents sure isn't coming from Somerby, or else you could point it out, Anonymous 4:07, right?<br /><br />He's been talking about asshole "leaders" like Ben Jealous.<br /><br />I agree. <br /><br />I feel sorry for anyone who's getting parental advice based on the nonsense Jealous has been spewing regarding the Martin/Zimmerman case. Happily, I don't *know* for a fact that anyone has been listening to Jealous. <br /><br />But I do know Jealous has been awful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76237046131696655472013-07-23T17:35:18.661-04:002013-07-23T17:35:18.661-04:00Because THEY ALL talk constantly about weed, fight...Because THEY ALL talk constantly about weed, fighting, school suspensions, skipping school, right 5:25?<br /><br />What they text about tells you nothing, nothing at all. Kids are all alike.<br /><br />Wtvr dad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14854649929062435842013-07-23T17:30:01.394-04:002013-07-23T17:30:01.394-04:00Nothing Trayvon was up to whether it was buying an...Nothing Trayvon was up to whether it was buying and selling guns or making purple drank has much to do with the facts of the case. But a "scared kid" does something different with their 4 minutes than what he did. A dissed or bored kid that is on the violent and thug end of the spectrum does exactly what he did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54584062370237623842013-07-23T17:29:18.511-04:002013-07-23T17:29:18.511-04:00So Hi, Zimmerman wasn't exactly trying to get ...So Hi, Zimmerman wasn't exactly trying to get back to his vehicle during those four minutes from saying OK until he was allegedly viciously attacked? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47509030234754666552013-07-23T17:25:01.692-04:002013-07-23T17:25:01.692-04:00Anon @ 4:49
Thanks for reafffirming my point that...Anon @ 4:49<br /><br />Thanks for reafffirming my point that you have not spent any time dealing with texts involving teenagers of any race.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com