tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post5962657318866361343..comments2024-03-28T18:44:29.358-04:00Comments on the daily howler: MAY LOOK LIKE PLUTOCRAT BIAS: Halloween monsters stood on the stage!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49448089212180429332015-11-11T08:53:07.099-05:002015-11-11T08:53:07.099-05:00Bob plans to be as thorough in his coverage of thi...Bob plans to be as thorough in his coverage of this two week old event as he was with PBS coverage of the Iowa State Fair, which he chose to feature rather than the August 6 debate on FOX.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33363025025438503312015-11-10T18:31:28.950-05:002015-11-10T18:31:28.950-05:00Although there may not be simple ways to solve com...Although there may not be simple ways to solve complex problems, there are simple ways to make complex problems worse. E.g., invading Iraq or overthrowing the government of Libya or throwing additional troops into Afghanistan. There are also complex ways of making a complex situation worse, such as enacting a poorly designed health care system. Also, there are complex, expensive ways of doing little or no good, such as the US and UN approach to mitigating CO2 emissions by an amount that will have only a negligible impact on global warming.<br /><br />I do not expect the government to solve complex problems. I will vote for the candidate who I hope will make fewer problems worse. David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-410830603945870512015-11-10T18:07:52.855-05:002015-11-10T18:07:52.855-05:00My guess is Corby read the article instead of watc...My guess is Corby read the article instead of watching the tape of the remarks at the top. Politico did a better job of paraphrasing Kasich than Somerby did of novelizing his remarks, but the link takes your to a video clip of the actual remarks coming straight out of the candidates mouth.<br /><br />It is a pity the troll spotters (spouters?) Somerby is left with as readers are willing to engage in vulgar accusations without checking material that can be verified.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14789794664781893442015-11-10T15:54:39.458-05:002015-11-10T15:54:39.458-05:00Yes, it is very comforting to think that complex p...Yes, it is very comforting to think that complex problems have simple explanations.<br /><br />Like that stupid "general public" believes "stupid stuff" because journalist aren't doing a good job.<br /><br />In the Information Age. When there have never been as many voices available as there are today.<br /><br />And it is hilarious to read a blogger -- one of those voices who couldn't be heard at all -- yearn for the good ol' days of a handful of "gatekeepers" controlling what voices we read and hear.<br /><br />Good ol' days, in fact, that never really existed.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5811314652385086492015-11-10T15:27:32.267-05:002015-11-10T15:27:32.267-05:00"Human" demonstrates all the qualities o..."Human" demonstrates all the qualities of the audience which cheered Ted Cruz. The lazy liberal tribalist described by Bob Somerby based on his experience with his own readership.<br /><br />Corby, on the other hand, has proven he will not only fall for Somerby's tales, he has the energy to further them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31093959667028462812015-11-10T14:31:17.499-05:002015-11-10T14:31:17.499-05:00"Maybe the audience wouldn't believe stup..."Maybe the audience wouldn't believe stupid stuff if the moderators did a better job."<br /><br />BINGO!<br /><br />Also, maybe the general public wouldn't believe so much stupid stuff if journalists did a better job.<br /><br />"That's absurd, leave our wonderful journalists alone, you mean old Somerby," retort the trolls.Humannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21991290708261905382015-11-10T13:07:08.075-05:002015-11-10T13:07:08.075-05:00Inquisitor -- just like 1984 Newspeak.
I agree t...Inquisitor -- just like 1984 Newspeak. <br /><br />I agree these aren't debates. They aren't candidate forums either or beauty pageants. Why shouldn't a well-prepared moderator attempt to get a candidate to clarify an answer or ask the follow-ons the public would want to know? Why shouldn't they function as competent journalists?<br /><br />Maybe the audience wouldn't believe stupid stuff if the moderators did a better job.Corbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-11804276419900252352015-11-10T13:02:53.023-05:002015-11-10T13:02:53.023-05:00From the Politico story cited:
"Kasich went ...From the Politico story cited:<br /><br />"Kasich went on, saying, "We got one person saying we ought to have a 10 percent flat tax that will drive up the deficit in this country by trillions of dollars" and there's another challenger in the field who "says we ought to take 10 or 11 [million] people and pick them up — I don't know where we're going to go, their homes, their apartments — we're going to pick them up and scream at them to get out of our country. That's crazy. That is just crazy."<br /><br />Sounds to me like he is referring to tax cuts and budget proposals. That he only mentions one as a specific example of his general complaint about conservatives (note the title of the piece) does not exclude the others with similarly messed up plans. The growth rates and loopholes and spending cuts are part of the whole package being proposed by this year's candidates. Someone who wholesale calls them crazy (referring to "conservatives" is implicitly referring to these, even if not explicitly listing them one by one, as Kasich actually did with respect to the 10% tax cute and consequent trillions in deficit.<br /><br />Excessively literal again. Any reason you aren't following CMike's suggestion to use a nym? We all know who you are anyway.<br />Corbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10432512925536836642015-11-10T13:02:14.086-05:002015-11-10T13:02:14.086-05:00Not bad Anonymous @ 12:37, except we all keep igno...Not bad Anonymous @ 12:37, except we all keep ignoring a few fairly pertinent things. <br /><br />These are not "debates."<br /><br />The Bob/Corby view projects the moderator to play the role of Inquisitor/Rebutter.<br /><br />But other than that, and the minor fact that the candidates are addressing an audience that believes the current President is a Kenyan born Muslim trying to take away their guns, Somerby and Corby are making a logical proposal.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8558422901365034262015-11-10T12:52:29.461-05:002015-11-10T12:52:29.461-05:00You'd think, with over two weeks to review it,...You'd think, with over two weeks to review it, Bob Somerby would realize Governor Kasich wasn't referring to budget plans when he called the <strong>election</strong> "crazy." <br /><br />http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/john-kasich-critiques-gop-2016-candidates-215233<br /><br />That said, if you had to rate this statment by Bob Somerby as true or false, you'd have to say it was mostly false:<br /><br />"Those <strong>budget proposals</strong> were "crazy," Candidate Kasich had said. He referred to the <strong>tax cuts</strong>, which were giant; to the <strong>spending cuts</strong>, which were invisible; to the <strong>projected growth rates</strong>, which were clownish; and to <strong>the loopholes</strong> the candidates said they would dump, which kept disappearing under questioning in a type of voodoo.<br /><br />Kasich <strong>might have referred to the distributional effects of these tax plans too</strong>, in which millionaires and billionaires would see their tax bills massively slashed.<br /><br />Kasich called the election "crazy". He called the proposal to abolish Medicaid and Medicare "crazy". He called the plan to deport 10-11 million people "crazy."<br /><br />He did NOT call any budget proposal crazy. He did NOT refer to spending cuts, growth rates, or loopholes. <br /><br />And not only did he NOT refer to distributional effects of taxes, he only referred to one tax plan, a 10% flat rate.<br /><br />We'd have to say Somerby is either a novelist into Magic Realism or has so many loose screws and wires that they may never have been installed in the first place.<br /><br />Tomorrow: Point by Point raised by Kasich and how moderators addressed them in debate.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7252690256958562912015-11-10T12:37:49.109-05:002015-11-10T12:37:49.109-05:00OK, so the questioning session goes like this:
MO...OK, so the questioning session goes like this:<br /><br />MODERATOR: Your tax plan will blow a huge hole in the deficit.<br /><br />CANDIDATE: No it won't. Growth will make up for it.<br /><br />MODERATOR: Never happened in 30 of trying without blowing a hole in the deficit.<br /><br />CANDIDATE: Yes it has.<br /><br />MODERATOR: No it hasn't.<br /><br />CANDIDATE: You're a liberal! And you're biased!<br /><br />SOMERBY: Look how hapless that moderator was!<br /><br />DAVE IN CAL: Three cheers for Candidate! He sure did put that liberal moderator in his place!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-90550444476492796892015-11-10T12:07:18.924-05:002015-11-10T12:07:18.924-05:00The last I heard, the economy was slowing down, be...The last I heard, the economy was slowing down, becoming sluggish. All of the proposed budget plans assume that lowering taxes on the rich would stimulate economic growth. However, the amount of growth is pulled from thin air because there are no studies suggesting that any growth would occur, much less the astronomical rates essential to these plans. Republicans pretend that their assumption that lowering taxes stimulates the economy has never been tested. That is untrue. There have been analyses of the growth produced by tax relief and none of them justify these assumptions at the heart of all of the Republican tax plans. So, it isn't just the amount of the cuts that is problematic but the assumptions about growth of our economy. <br /><br />Debate moderators need to not only challenge the cuts but also the growth rates projected by the candidates. When they only challenge the cuts, the candidates turn around and state that the growth will make up the deficit. THAT factually incorrect statement needs to be challenged too. Corbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57075331934961332352015-11-10T11:42:59.344-05:002015-11-10T11:42:59.344-05:00So, Bob's general point is correct: my party i...So, Bob's general point is correct: my party is batshit insane.<br /><br />FTFYmmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69565540753981212882015-11-10T11:38:43.069-05:002015-11-10T11:38:43.069-05:00Technical note: Bob says that when comparing Bush&...Technical note: Bob says that when comparing Bush's tax cut with the current proposals, one should adjust for inflation. Actually, one should adjust for a combination of population growth, inflation, and economic expansion. Alternatively, one could adjust using GNP or using amount of income tax collected.<br /><br />That adjustment would be around a factor of 2. The current Republican proposals around 4 times as large as Bush's. So, Bob's general point is correct: the current proposals are much larger than Bush's.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55556994662267154802015-11-10T11:30:09.944-05:002015-11-10T11:30:09.944-05:00That old demon "plutocrat bias" is a na...That old demon "plutocrat bias" is a nasty fellow. Thank heavens he never appeared on the sprawling campus of Howler U. before November 5, 2015 or the poor analysts might have been frightened away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91101050712733517742015-11-10T11:18:32.977-05:002015-11-10T11:18:32.977-05:00"Tomorrow: Minute by minute with Harwood, Qui..."Tomorrow: Minute by minute with Harwood, Quintanilla and Quick"<br /><br />Sigh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com