tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6020112637223757375..comments2024-03-28T20:27:03.808-04:00Comments on the daily howler: At long last, the New York Times bends to our will!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22647944406830617392013-08-09T00:47:56.295-04:002013-08-09T00:47:56.295-04:00Thank you very much on your pleasant pointers you’...Thank you very much on your pleasant pointers you’ve shared on this page.<br /><br />Looking for billing services? Visit:<br /><a href="http://www.ironcomet.com/medisoft-program" rel="nofollow">Medisoft Program</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61441329656974481852013-06-03T20:47:56.018-04:002013-06-03T20:47:56.018-04:00I disagree with you, mch. We don't need to att...I disagree with you, mch. We don't need to attract people into becoming physicians. There are plenty of qualified foreign doctors out there who want to come to the US, but are prevented from doing so because of restrictions written into our trade agreements with other countries. If we allowed more foreign doctors to emigrate to the US that would help drive doctor salaries (and health costs) down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8000333561433604952013-06-03T18:23:03.386-04:002013-06-03T18:23:03.386-04:00Dave in Cal, I don't think your free market mo...Dave in Cal, I don't think your free market model, of driving prices down through competition, is relevant here if only because the number of people who are qualified to become physicians is always going to be very small (relative to population). To attract some percentage of these qualified people, you have to pay them well. Not all of them obscenely well, just most of them reasonably well (most physicians are not paid anywhere near what people imagine them to be, and since so many years of training precede salaries of more than, say $30-$40,000/year, they often need to earn more than you might expect in their relatively few high-earning years, if they are to pay off their debts and save for retirement and such). mchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32505267678786807092013-06-03T17:02:47.324-04:002013-06-03T17:02:47.324-04:00Hieronymous is correct, except he forget to put &q...Hieronymous is correct, except he forget to put "liberals" in quotation marks.majnebnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38728290405647303482013-06-03T16:03:21.064-04:002013-06-03T16:03:21.064-04:00Yeah, It's always the 'liberals' fault... Yeah, It's always the 'liberals' fault!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61486076414555541252013-06-03T13:38:19.765-04:002013-06-03T13:38:19.765-04:00No, no click for you, spam troll!No, no click for you, spam troll!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-68302667065613126362013-06-03T11:34:06.422-04:002013-06-03T11:34:06.422-04:00Americans don't know how bad their healthcare ...Americans don't know how bad their healthcare situation is because liberals don't want to tell them. Liberals are much more interested in calling people racists, misogynists, homophobes, islamophobes, etc. than explaining to the public why our policies are superior to those of conservatives. Then we're angry when white people vote Republican. Way to go, liberals. Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-85411774323507376742013-06-03T11:29:50.405-04:002013-06-03T11:29:50.405-04:00Unions can be over-demanding but paying workers a ...Unions can be over-demanding but paying workers a decent wage to afford a decent life style (money in the bank, home ownership, fun stuff like vacations, etc.) is not the same thing as having a healthcare system where Americans pay 2-3 times the amount of any other nation on earth but ranks a lousy 35th in quality of care. <br /><br />Virtually all of the increase in GDP has gone to the top 10 percent. Everyone else has remained stagnant or are falling further behind. I'd call that looting. Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-56135727918831990652013-06-03T10:29:07.725-04:002013-06-03T10:29:07.725-04:00We have a great medical system IF you have good in...We have a great medical system IF you have good insurance through your employer or IF you are wealthy. If you are uninsured or if you have crappy insurance with huge deductibles then you will have lousy sporadic health care. In the other advanced democracies, the governments negotiate for lower drug prices, their drug costs are as much as 50% cheaper than in the US. Our per capita medical costs are much higher than the other advanced countries but our medical outcomes are not two or three times better. We have the highest infant mortality rate amongst the wealthy countries and US longevity is not as long as in the other advanced countries. People do not go bankrupt from medical costs in Germany, Sweden, Canada, Norway, Austria, Finland, Denmark or Australia, for example. But in the US, millions are at risk of going bankrupt from medical costs. About 50%+ of personal bankruptcies in the US are due to medical costs.giuseppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13445832057107337104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61144241949593739172013-06-03T09:23:46.796-04:002013-06-03T09:23:46.796-04:00If you are a right wing union hater, then of cours...If you are a right wing union hater, then of course unions are evil. giuseppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13445832057107337104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78155502533271392482013-06-03T09:17:59.230-04:002013-06-03T09:17:59.230-04:00Talk to the Americans who are bankrupted by medica...Talk to the Americans who are bankrupted by medical expenses, even those with insurance.giuseppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13445832057107337104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13146768356637708622013-06-03T05:44:34.971-04:002013-06-03T05:44:34.971-04:00We need Eco and Eso (C. G. Jung and Rudolf Steiner...We need Eco and Eso (C. G. Jung and Rudolf Steiner). Read more on my blog (please click on my nickname).Eso-Policierhttp://www.esopolice.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82603857784139980432013-06-03T00:36:37.314-04:002013-06-03T00:36:37.314-04:00A lot of people say this, but it's based on co...A lot of people say this, but it's based on conflating America with the American government. Health care costs are indeed eating up more and more of the federal budget. They also eat up quite a bit of state government budgets, because of Medicaid and employee healthcare. <br /><br />But, America the country isn't being bankrupted by healthcare costs. We spend almost 18% of GDP on healthcare, which leaves 82% for everything else. The US GDP is high enough so that 82% is plenty to cover items other than healthcare.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55567288447510836492013-06-02T19:16:44.285-04:002013-06-02T19:16:44.285-04:00Healthcare costs are bankrupting America!Healthcare costs are bankrupting America!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13067301181246609062013-06-02T19:12:45.972-04:002013-06-02T19:12:45.972-04:00Yes. And yes.Yes. And yes.Matt in the Crownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02083162679471045642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12861451858699343712013-06-02T19:12:12.359-04:002013-06-02T19:12:12.359-04:00Yes. And yes.Yes. And yes.Matt in the Crownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02083162679471045642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84983016120422454132013-06-02T19:11:55.039-04:002013-06-02T19:11:55.039-04:00I agree mch that more subsidization of medical edu...I agree mch that more subsidization of medical education would be good. In addition, more medical education would be good. That is, if the government created a bunch of new medical schools, we'd eventually have a greater supply of medical practitioners. Because of supply-and-demand, the greater supply would drive down charges. <br /><br />Also, there would be more total medical care available. After all, the amount of medical care received by Americans is equal to the total amount of care provided by medical practitioners. The Obama reform approach didn't create any additional pool of medical care.<br /><br />Setting a up a bunch of med schools is a very expensive, difficult undertaking. But, in the long run, I think it would be cheaper and more effective than the actual Health Reform Act that was passed.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22554851575481964112013-06-02T17:57:51.407-04:002013-06-02T17:57:51.407-04:00Just to note that for once (well, maybe twice or t...Just to note that for once (well, maybe twice or thrice by now) I agree with Dave in Cal.<br /><br />Would also note that the NYT story hints at many other complexities in the cost of health care. E.g., doctors in Germany being underpaid, even when you take into account that they don't have the med school debts our doctors do (which, in the long run, is a problem for Germany's excellent healthcare system). There are no easy answers here, but our system is clearly very very broken. One problem is the amount of debt our doctors must accrue in getting educated (in contrast to other developed countries, which subsidize medical education much much more), which leads them to think more in terms of monetary rewards than they might otherwise. <br />mchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69085509032454200942013-06-02T17:52:58.462-04:002013-06-02T17:52:58.462-04:00Imagine that: the comments section of the New York...Imagine that: the comments section of the New York Times (with a readership that is more liberal than the average American) on an article that is critical of the healthcare system is filled with comments from people who are ... critical of the healthcare system (none of the comments talks about quality, by the way, just cost and availability). Shocking. <br /><br />I've been having the healthcare discussion for almost twenty years. In that time the only people I've ever heard say that the quality of care offered overseas was equal to what they have here is people who actually lived overseas and used their services. And even then (I currently live in Utah, where lots of people serve a two year mission in foreign countries for their church), lots of people believe that the quality of care here is superior to where it is anywhere else, even though they've lived overseas. No amount of data or evidence I present changes their mind. But don't take my word for it, have the discussion yourself. In the event that you are on conversational terms with non-liberals, talk to them and see what they say. Keep price out of it, and focus on quality. tilhttp://til.tknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33913697051493422042013-06-02T16:45:10.415-04:002013-06-02T16:45:10.415-04:00Also worth reading:
http://blogs.reuters.com/davi...Also worth reading:<br /><br />http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/09/11/a-tale-of-two-healthcare-plans/hardindrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05275899305949454964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21939351628476760462013-06-02T14:56:47.217-04:002013-06-02T14:56:47.217-04:00I agree with Bob. My colonoscopies are billing Me...I agree with Bob. My colonoscopies are billing Medicare + Insurance around $3000. And, the doctors own the clinic. So, the high cost means that the doctors are making a lot of money -- probably a lot more than doctors in countries where the procedure is cheaper.<br /><br />I don't like the word "looting", simply because an American worker in some field gets paid more than foreign worker. By that definition, lots of Americans are "looters": university professors and administrators, movie actors, professional athletes, lawyers, accountants, computer programmers, etc. US workers generally get higher pay than average foreign workers. Are we all looters? <br /><br />Furthermore, if, higher-paid workers are "looters", then are labor unions evil because they fight for higher pay? David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53761179736369802042013-06-02T14:22:16.765-04:002013-06-02T14:22:16.765-04:00"Ask just about any American, and they will t..."Ask just about any American, and they will thump their chest and proudly say we have the best healthcare in the world."<br /><br />Well, the commenters in the comments after the article aren't saying that. Instead there is story after story of lack of insurance, insurance that doesn't cover enough of the cost, overpriced procedures, people simply not going to the doctor because they can't afford to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38028621459515221562013-06-02T12:35:44.664-04:002013-06-02T12:35:44.664-04:00"...even though numerous studies have conclud..."...even though numerous studies have concluded that Americans do not get better care."<br /><br />Ought to have been bolded as well. Ask just about any American, and they will thump their chest and proudly say we have the best healthcare in the world. They might -- might -- be dimly aware that it's more expensive; they probably know that many people don't have access to regular healthcare at all, but they are absolutely certain that the people who do have healthcare, are getting better healthcare than they would get anyplace else, so it's all a fair tradeoff. Attempts to cover more people will, so goes the mindset, result in degrading that wonderful standard of quality. Where that notion comes from is probably a combination of nationalistic chauvinism, and propagandistic tales of long waiting times for common procedures in countries with "socialized" medicine, and people from other countries coming here to pay for procedures they could get for "free" at home, because they know we would o the procedures better. If you want to do something about healthcare, pound on the costs, yes, but you also have to pound on the fact that what we get, even for those of us with coverage, is no better than what is provided in other developed countries, regardless of what they pay. tilhttp://til.tknoreply@blogger.com