tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6942580247530420633..comments2024-03-19T04:03:14.637-04:00Comments on the daily howler: For liberals only: Do we want to be serviced this way?<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20032926642875550602012-12-14T11:35:09.078-05:002012-12-14T11:35:09.078-05:00I hope you email James Risen and inform him of his...I hope you email James Risen and inform him of his knob-polishing. He is under the fantasy that he is doing investigative reporting. <br /><br />Also you should let Greenwald know that his contributions have added nothing. <br /><br />It must be nice in the bubble there, Bob. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28942241252735400642012-12-14T10:38:03.229-05:002012-12-14T10:38:03.229-05:00"I think the topic was..."
Which goes t..."I think the topic was..."<br /><br />Which goes to show how well you pay attention.<br /><br />The topic was never "whether Rice was misleading" but whether her remarks were accurately represented by a stupid and craven press.<br /><br />To understate things greatly, they weren't.<br /><br />Your contributions have added nothing, as always.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26491629946636241622012-12-14T10:34:03.417-05:002012-12-14T10:34:03.417-05:00Yes, I'm right.
Your "Somerby didn't...Yes, I'm right.<br /><br />Your "Somerby didn't say what I want, therefore he fell for Rice's deception" schtick is without merit.<br /><br />More pathetic still is your continued "not agreeing with my baseless conspiracy theorizing equals uncritical support for Rice" knob-polishing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31190663196687719312012-12-13T11:49:23.923-05:002012-12-13T11:49:23.923-05:00You're right, sort of. TDH has not expressed a...You're right, sort of. TDH has not expressed any opinion on Rice's sad, sad, dismay at how readily available heavy weapons were in post-revolutionary Libya. And TDH never will. <br /><br />Of course, I never said that TDH had opined on that. My point was that TDH was ignoring at least one way in which Rice's statements were misleading-- I think the topic was whether Rice was misleading on the TV shows back in September. <br /><br />TDH has demonstrated a number of ways in which Rice's comments have misconstrued. Ok, fine. But TDH has neglected to examine the ways in which Rice was indeed attempting to mislead, and instead became an advocate for Rice, cheering for Obama's support for her as in the link above. <br /><br />I hope you're thrilled by furthering Rice's career. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24789089190861832132012-12-13T10:24:04.179-05:002012-12-13T10:24:04.179-05:00In other words, you've been asked, repeatedly,...In other words, you've been asked, repeatedly, to bring a quote that supports your bullshit. <br /><br />You can't.<br /><br />In an equally surprising development, the sun rose in the east this morning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77361772813943025502012-12-13T10:21:51.782-05:002012-12-13T10:21:51.782-05:00No, of course.
Contrary to your seemingly endless...No, of course.<br /><br />Contrary to your seemingly endless fantasy, TDH has never expressed any opinion on Rice addressing "the sources of heavy weapons available in Benghazi."<br /><br />You got nothing, but you won't shut up -- In other words, business as usual for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49131517906291244092012-12-12T23:43:56.732-05:002012-12-12T23:43:56.732-05:00So you're saying that TDH does agree that Rice...So you're saying that TDH does agree that Rice was misleading about the sources of heavy weapons available in Benghazi, but that it is irrelevant to TDH coverage of her being mis-paraphrased about other things?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4315455300286622522012-12-12T23:22:45.040-05:002012-12-12T23:22:45.040-05:00That link doesn't do what you want it to.
You...That link doesn't do what you want it to.<br /><br />You're still making sh!t up, no surprise.<br /><br />Give us the quote: Somerby commenting on whether, in your words, "the US had been covertly supplying weapons to militants in Benghazi."<br /><br />Put up or shut up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84956788518494845052012-12-12T17:51:18.738-05:002012-12-12T17:51:18.738-05:00http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/11/this-too-j...http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/11/this-too-just-in-from-kevin-drum.html<br /><br />Yeah, I'd say TDH fell for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-6080642170030083802012-12-12T17:47:13.481-05:002012-12-12T17:47:13.481-05:00Gee, I (annon 12:37) just got back to the howler c...Gee, I (annon 12:37) just got back to the howler comments from yesterday and read til's response to my first post. First, fwiw worth I'm not a Maddow worshiper, I barely watch her and when I do I find her glib and not all that informative. I think some of Bob's complaints about here are spot on. But in this instance I think he's making way too much out of very little. Let's repeat what she said:<br />"One of them is Karl Rove, who famously on election night tried to convince Fox News-watching Americans that Mitt Romney had not really lost Ohio."<br />I don't think that's a wildly wrong description of Rove that night. He was trying to convince the other's at Fox that this was not over already, that Romney might still win Ohio. <br />"That could not be. Not when he, Karl Rove, had spent $390 million raised from conservative zillionaires to make sure that never happened." <br />I think quite obviously Maddow is engaging in mockery here, suggesting that for Rove the Ohio outcome was not something he could easily swallow, especially after convincing a lot of wealthy folks that he,Rove would help win it for Romney. I think it's clear from both the words and the inflection if you hear her say them that this is not intended as a verbatim quote of Rove, that she is mocking him for his reaction to Ohio results that would be hard for him to take. Is that too tricky an idea out there for you Maddow haters ? Bob needs to spend his energy on more important things than this nit. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69852740632514373992012-12-12T14:39:00.878-05:002012-12-12T14:39:00.878-05:00TDH fell for it?
When?
When did TDH opine on the...TDH fell for it?<br /><br />When?<br /><br />When did TDH opine on the question of whether US acts had led to Libyan militants being armed?<br /><br />Never. Nor have any of your detractors affirmed or denied this.<br /><br />Gain some cred: quit making sh!t up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44565113091921829802012-12-12T12:08:18.268-05:002012-12-12T12:08:18.268-05:00No, mis-paraphrasing her words is not ok. And I do...No, mis-paraphrasing her words is not ok. And I don't think she's a bad person. She is an ambitious career diplomat and politician. One would be foolish to take her words at face value. <br /><br />Seriously, when Rice said that it was unfortunate that heavy weapons were readily available in Benghazi, did you interpret that to mean that the US had been covertly supplying weapons to militants in Benghazi? In fact, that turned out to be the truth on the matter. Of course, Rice wasn't lying to say it was unfortunate, she was just misleading in the way that professionals in her situations often do. TDH fell for it.<br /><br />I agree with Greenwald's take on Rice. Her statements about Benghazi shouldn't disqualify her for the Secretary of State position, it's the fact that she hasn't been against any military interventions for the last 15 years that's disturbing. But that will likely be true of any nominee...still, I don't see why TDH should help her or any one else evade accountability for these interventions when they go awry. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14610445652514544592012-12-12T11:31:30.998-05:002012-12-12T11:31:30.998-05:00"[Rice] has looked that way for many years&qu..."[Rice] has looked that way for many years"<br /><br />In Other Words: Rice is a bad person, therefore mis-representing her words on Beghazi is OK!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-58192441380316113422012-12-12T11:28:37.709-05:002012-12-12T11:28:37.709-05:00til FTW!!
100% spot-on description of the Maddow...til FTW!! <br /><br />100% spot-on description of the Maddow-worshipers' "thought" process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31017155054938410922012-12-12T06:36:31.601-05:002012-12-12T06:36:31.601-05:00When Rove was saying the margin was 900 votes, the...When Rove was saying the margin was 900 votes, the Fox scroll on the bottom of the screen was saying the margin was 30,000 votes. It wasn't a difference of opinion, Rove was making up numbers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-86910051155486583822012-12-11T21:28:05.765-05:002012-12-11T21:28:05.765-05:00There was a whole kabuki with Florida in 2000 - it...There was a whole kabuki with Florida in 2000 - it seemed to matter to partisans that Gore never officially had a lead so never had post-election momentum, etc. To me, Rove was playing this sort of Inside Baseball - it was important to the GOP script in case things went to a recount that the media didn't necessarily give anything away to the Obama team.<br />My take on the GOP strategy - including the voter suppression tactics - is that the GOP was counting on a closer race going into recounts - where they could move as many Democratic voters as possible onto provisional ballots - which then, in states where the process was controlled by the GOP, they could find a way to throw them out or otherwise shut the whole thing down with them being counted - ala Florida 2000.<br />Rove is a political player and veteran of the process. I think it is very shallow to impugn his motives without considering the first and foremost. And I think it is extremely blind of the media to ignore the Inside Baseball posturing and jockeying and process tinkering that goes on - that stuff matters - as we saw in Florida 2000 - and which the GOP was prepared to go to the mat in Ohio (and other places) in 2012. Rove was just doing his job and playing along to the script.Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-15957703643851796572012-12-11T21:04:42.941-05:002012-12-11T21:04:42.941-05:00So it isn't what Rove and Maddow SAID, it'...So it isn't what Rove and Maddow SAID, it's what people feel they meant to say, or feel they wanted to say, or feel they might have wanted to say, or meant to say differently, but didn't, so we'll just say they said whatever we want them to say. And everyone knows what they felt they wanted to say <br />(but didn't), so we can all just move along now. tilhttp://til.tknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20242635131883924982012-12-11T19:48:03.175-05:002012-12-11T19:48:03.175-05:00Yeah, dumb old Greenwald....and chickenshit to boo...Yeah, dumb old Greenwald....and chickenshit to boot!<br /><br />Only the TDH faithful can see the light on Rice. To everyone else she looks like Greenwald portrays her and has looked that way for many years. <br /><br />Maybe I read the last line of the above post incorrectly; maybe saying Rice was "mis-paraphrased" was supposed to be a climb-down from the previous TDH line on Rice. Is the new line just that although she was intentionally misleading on those TV shows, she was still mis-paraphrased? <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5814041240525406672012-12-11T16:28:05.020-05:002012-12-11T16:28:05.020-05:00Greenwald is useful but always has a holier than n...Greenwald is useful but always has a holier than now axe to grind, like a Counterpunch chatterbox. His waiting until Hitchens died to take him on was deeply chickenshit. Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288008924419574934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63662173279738600492012-12-11T16:26:33.323-05:002012-12-11T16:26:33.323-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288008924419574934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72962501598056064462012-12-11T16:25:40.542-05:002012-12-11T16:25:40.542-05:00Siorry, but there is no evidence whatsoever for wh...Siorry, but there is no evidence whatsoever for what you are saying here. Her statements were perfect -- perfect -- for the state of the knowledge that could be disclosed at the time. Her warnings about the preliminary nature of the information were persistent and unmistakable, and she expressly acknowledged the possibility of an al Qaeda role. <br /><br />Greenwald, who normally is very careful, is simply wrong in what she said. The is no "TDH" line." It is unquestionably correct. There is no room in the actual facts for an alternative interpretation.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49109513918204223802012-12-11T16:24:25.810-05:002012-12-11T16:24:25.810-05:00This is an embarrassing Daily Howler post and you ...This is an embarrassing Daily Howler post and you are correct, Annom. To be precise, She might have said "tried to delay the bad News that Romney had lost Ohio", but her statement is still true and almost everyone is familiar with this moment and knows what She was talking about. It should be clear to Daily Howler readers that Bob has a nasty grudge against Maddow and it leads him to do this kind of terrible work. Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288008924419574934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43263980700820459442012-12-11T16:17:07.798-05:002012-12-11T16:17:07.798-05:00The transcript doesn't do justice to Rove'...The transcript doesn't do justice to Rove's reaction. Of course, he used his words carefully, but he clearly was trying to hold on to his belief that Romney would win. This was not some dispassionate disagreement with the timing of the call. He was clearly upset at the content of the call. <br /><br />While exaggerated, if you actually watched it, you would have to say Maddow's description of Rove's reaction was a reasonable one for someone who never would hide her dislike for Karl Rove and who is trying to undermine his influence as much as possinble. Nobody was getting played. But The Script about Maddow must be maintained and refreshed every day or two.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-15010954839531621162012-12-11T16:14:13.595-05:002012-12-11T16:14:13.595-05:00It's disappointing that Bob would focus on thi...It's disappointing that Bob would focus on this one minor part and trivial comment about Rove in Maddow's well documented report about how the conservative fundraising circle jerk has become nothing more than a racket to fleece the rubes. I thought her report was excellent, with numerous examples. The kind of reporting you would see nowhere else on cable news.mmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17069555083386666502012-12-11T16:01:09.209-05:002012-12-11T16:01:09.209-05:00Greenwald has proven himself a keen and critical o...Greenwald has proven himself a keen and critical observer of powerful politicians. Like our host at this blog, Greenwald is willing to criticize members of both parties and has little patience for tribalism in politics. <br /><br />TDH's line has been that we can't be certain that Rice was intentionally misleading us about Benghazi because her statements were so conditional and qualified. Now that we know that Rice was well aware of the sources of weapons available in Benghazi, that defense is absurd. She supported arming the rebels and then pretends that "stuff happens." <br /><br />It may well be true that some or even many pundits and broadcasters did not accurately convey the nuances of Rice's Benghazi statements. And that is indeed a shame. But that doesn't mean that what she said wasn't intended to deflect criticism from her and the Obama campaign--it seems that it was carefully crafted to make it hard to see how any responsibility should fall on her and her colleagues. That's misleading. <br /><br />Would TDH have spent so much time attacking John Bolton's critics had he given some misleading interviews? I hope not. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com