tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6997052397729171786..comments2024-03-28T05:37:00.890-04:00Comments on the daily howler: FIVE KEY POINTS AND ELEVEN SOLUTIONS: The New York Times and the PISA cult!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-66677008868925732462013-12-26T04:37:00.554-05:002013-12-26T04:37:00.554-05:00Very well said. These tips are really amazing. I a...Very well said. These tips are really amazing. I appreciate it for sharing them.<br /><a rel="nofollow">Drive Fixing Dorset</a>, <a rel="nofollow">Drive Jet washing Dorset</a>, <a rel="nofollow">Path Repairs Bournemouth</a>, <a rel="nofollow">Path Cleaning Bournemouth </a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12496446435644724584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65759086235410559562013-12-19T10:18:35.266-05:002013-12-19T10:18:35.266-05:00In the very same way that No Child Left Behind and...In the very same way that No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top are both major pieces of education legislation that are allegedly "aimed at improving educational outcomes." Both CITE the term research-based many, many times. But both have little or no research base to support their embedded policies, like more testing, merit pay for teachers based on students test scores, and more charter schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52931204696723707482013-12-19T10:13:13.067-05:002013-12-19T10:13:13.067-05:00The repetition just makes it all the more inane, d...The repetition just makes it all the more inane, doesn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78698132301851859572013-12-19T10:09:57.817-05:002013-12-19T10:09:57.817-05:00Thanks Anonymous for taking apart the goofy argume...Thanks Anonymous for taking apart the goofy argument(s) of a.m. adon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91331652893925758822013-12-19T10:07:21.809-05:002013-12-19T10:07:21.809-05:00This really is the crux of your comment: "tr...This really is the crux of your comment: "treating teachers like the professionals...taking their input seriously, and recognizing that they are central to education "<br /><br />When, and IF these things happen, we'll finally get to genuine education reform.<br /><br />democracyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54288645260682909762013-12-19T00:33:50.029-05:002013-12-19T00:33:50.029-05:00Physics had a lot of prestige because of the atomi...Physics had a lot of prestige because of the atomic bomb. Biology has a lot of prestige because of genetic engineering. In the nineteenth century engineering was very prestigious. Sic transit gloria mundi.<br /><br />The new NYT article summing up the opinions of readers is better. -EAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87374840128158042442013-12-18T21:08:13.277-05:002013-12-18T21:08:13.277-05:00Catchy handle there, anonymous. Did you come up wi...Catchy handle there, anonymous. Did you come up with that yourself? You've just managed to prove my point! (Or was this a clever parody post? Hard to tell) The trolls here (and I'm not necessarily accusing you of being one) frequently refuse to engage with the content of Somerby's posts (content which is by no means above criticism) preferring to participate in a massive circle jerk about how he is a hypocrite, or a closet republican (see a. m. adon below) or a repetitive curmudgeon, or a self-hating Irish, or that he is writing about the wrong things, or that the people and publications he criticizes are not worth critiquing (see my post above) or whateeeever... It. Is. Just. Plain. Tedious. Make a well supported argument or go home.cacambonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5500992955009528262013-12-18T18:41:49.384-05:002013-12-18T18:41:49.384-05:00I'd like Bob to explain that too, but I suppos...I'd like Bob to explain that too, but I suppose it may be because the editorial board is happy to expound on a subject without having any education experts on the board. It is anti-intellectualism to believe that one does not need expertise to offer opinions, that good old common sense is sufficient, no real knowledge about a subject required. If I were to guess, that would be it, given that he talks about the composition of the editorial board immediately after describing the editorial as anti-intellectual. Their mistakes re: the various tests support that description.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61349767817026784682013-12-18T18:33:59.088-05:002013-12-18T18:33:59.088-05:00So the NYT editorial is wrong. How does a major e...So the NYT editorial is wrong. How does a major editorial effort aimed<br />at improving educational outcomes qualify as "anti-intellectual'? Pointy headed liberals want to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25002731815939151692013-12-18T17:25:50.981-05:002013-12-18T17:25:50.981-05:00The only person on this site who can be characteri...The only person on this site who can be characterized as full of rage is the troll whose comments are full of profanity. That person needs to get help, soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14142730058978530692013-12-18T16:22:54.877-05:002013-12-18T16:22:54.877-05:00Name one occasion when the blogger has even mentio...Name one occasion when the blogger has even mentioned the money made by Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter et al.<br /><br />I can name dozens when he is foaming at the mouth with rage and envy for the money he thinks O'Donnell, Maddow, Dowd et al. are making.<br /><br />You don't need a Rhodes scholarship to figure out whats going on here.<br /><br />In school you can achieve high levels of excellence because profit-making is not a requirement. If your work is funded, you are only addressing your peers and not dirt farmers in Indiana. If Maddow doesn't attract viewership and gets advertisers, Maddow wouldn't be on the air anymore. And the great unwashed American public only wants to hear angry white male rage and hatred - its next to impossible for a liberal radio/TV show to be commercially viable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76575295610955177232013-12-18T16:04:19.185-05:002013-12-18T16:04:19.185-05:00Typical, blame the teachers. At the college level,...Typical, blame the teachers. At the college level, the students share blame when they fail to benefit from their education.<br /><br />The blogger obsesses about her dishonesty, not her salary. She is violated strongly held values (especially by teachers) when she imparts misinformation, misleads people through omission, selectively quotes or cherry-picks facts, and otherwise propagandizes instead of informing. He seems obsessed with her becauses she is capable of doing better, should be doing better and yet violates the standards of her profession. For several million dollars couldn't she be more professional? In athletics, a millionaire player loses a contract for non-performance. Why are there no similar standards for millionaire journalists? It is a fair question, in my opinion. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care whether you are informed well, as long as she is cute and entertaining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44912053103163538752013-12-18T15:51:31.551-05:002013-12-18T15:51:31.551-05:00Dear me, the vapors.
You remind me, "cacambo...Dear me, the vapors.<br /><br />You remind me, "cacambo" (and I don't understand how that handle distinguishes from "trolls anonymous") of one of those Repubs who insist on referring to the "Democrat party".<br /><br />You'll be hard put to find any self-described leftie -- as opposed to a winger like yourself -- who regards NYT as "liberal" on much of anything but social issues. The paper is a stalwart supporter of U.S. intervention abroad, has a long history of supporting right-wing dictators and military coups, was a booster for the Iraq invasion, openly despises wikileaks and Edward Snowden and is a rare and unreliable proponent of anything like "economic justice". And of course it's never employed a left-winger on its op ed page. The notion among the right that Krugman is a leftist is both hilarious or pathetic, betraying a shocking ignorance about what "left-wing" actually means.<br /><br />As for influence -- you're quite right. NYT has little or no effect on public policy, certainly much less than Fox. And it has no influence with the Democratic party.<br /><br />So, on *both* counts you're right, despite yourself: NYT is not really a liberal paper, and apart from occasional unavoidable reporting of actual news which puts the State in a unflattering light, it has little or no effect on public policy.<br /><br />This comment brought to courtesy of trolls anonymous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24417826265634822822013-12-18T15:50:58.552-05:002013-12-18T15:50:58.552-05:00Somerby is a fine, fine teacher which is why I rea...Somerby is a fine, fine teacher which is why I read his every post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45942342541754228082013-12-18T15:37:01.325-05:002013-12-18T15:37:01.325-05:00Oh my God - you don't say that what people do ...Oh my God - you don't say that what people do in real life doesn't measure up to the intellectual standards of the best schools in the world?<br /><br />Who woulda thunk?<br /><br />But thats just an explication of the blogger's swipe at Maddow's stellar credentials. Looks like a straight putdown of higher education to me.<br /><br />It is of course kool Aid drinking to point out the money allegedly being made by Maddow. If the blogger cheapens himself constantly by obsessing about that, must his fans do the same?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39141825334979294272013-12-18T15:10:04.422-05:002013-12-18T15:10:04.422-05:00He spent 10 years as a teacher. Further, people wh...He spent 10 years as a teacher. Further, people who teach are people who carry the belief that they can serve others by imparting information. So, whether writing a blog, doing stand-up, writing, or in a classroom, a person can be involved in service to others by imparting knowledge, understanding, wisdom, guidance, encouragement, etc. Someone can have the soul and motives of a teacher without ever having been in a classroom. Moms, ministers, lots of people do it. <br /><br />It is churlish to come to a blog and criticize the writing style of the owner. We are becoming a Twitter culture, where no one will read anything longer than 120 characters. Do you really need sound bites to be happy? So what if writing is repetitive. Have you tried reading War and Peace? It is majorly repetitive and yet people consider it a great work of world literature. Go figure!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59304156179941728002013-12-18T15:01:49.992-05:002013-12-18T15:01:49.992-05:00This isn't about anything objective -- it is a...This isn't about anything objective -- it is about how the students regard each other. Biology won't be at the top because physics requires more math and abstract thought, thus is viewed as harder -- more rigorous and more of a science, and thus more prestigious intellectually speaking. Chemistry, biology and other fields are seen as derived from physics. It has nothing to do with what fields are providing more jobs, making more advances, etc. Students at places like Harvard and MIT are often insecure about their own standing at a place where everyone is outstanding, so the rankings emerge from that insecurity (the need to feel better than someone else), not any reality of the world off campus. Similarly, the public attitude toward teachers is not grounded in reality but in the subjectivities of people's views about their past teachers, authority figures, and their own abilities. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72120313911387699032013-12-18T14:43:36.370-05:002013-12-18T14:43:36.370-05:00he is not a teacher. he is an ideologically conse...he is not a teacher. he is an ideologically conservative political blogger who uses either the media in general as a way to bash liberals, or the medias handling of test scores as a way to bash liberals. <br /><br />each column should stand for itself. it should not depend on what he said in some previous column or what some book he praised in a previous column said. <br /><br />further, he should not have to be interpreted by his supporters as to what he really meant. he should say what he really means. he also should not meander like he does, but instead be concise and to the point if really is confident in what he is saying.<br /><br />sheeesh! talk about just making noise here.a. m. adonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36262832888825821112013-12-18T14:21:54.113-05:002013-12-18T14:21:54.113-05:00"Physics is at the top, followed by other sci..."Physics is at the top, followed by other sciences, then social sciences, then humanities." This reflects the value hierarchy of the 1950s. Now biology would be at the top. Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034269198524567445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-29441421345426872632013-12-18T13:31:02.227-05:002013-12-18T13:31:02.227-05:00At MIT there is a hierarchy among students based o...At MIT there is a hierarchy among students based on their majors. Physics is at the top, followed by other sciences, then social sciences, then humanities. This doesn't reflect the talent or intellectual ability of the students (because they all met MIT's rigorous admission standards) but rather the values among students. These stories about how education is the major poor students flock to reflect that kind of status hierarchy among students. For admission to graduate training in education, a person must not only have academic skills but also personal qualities that would make a person well-suited to work with children. There are quite a few engineering, science, math, economics, and political science majors who might flunk that entrance criterion. Because it isn't on their radar as a desirable trait, they are not even aware they lack important qualifications for the field. When education schools admit candidates, they don't only screen for academics but also for extracurriculars and personality. When gpa/test scores are not the only criterion for admission, the inclusion of other qualities will weaken the correlation between grades/scores and admission, making it seem like less qualified candidates are being admitted. Is it true? I'm not sure it has been studied explicitly -- please post a source if you know of one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52994637720441166042013-12-18T13:24:08.273-05:002013-12-18T13:24:08.273-05:00Repetition doesn't improve your comment.Repetition doesn't improve your comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48495265743113388942013-12-18T13:22:01.776-05:002013-12-18T13:22:01.776-05:00Yes, this is why he has so often praised Kozol'...Yes, this is why he has so often praised Kozol's "Savage Inequalities" which is about funding disparities.<br /><br />There is political conservatism and personal conservatism. Nearly all teachers are personally conservative because we spend our lives transmitting culture to children, socializing them to succeed in society and guiding them toward successful lives. One cannot do that without conserving important values. There is another kind of teacher who inspires young people to disrupt the status quo, pursue creativity (which works at the fringes of normative standards), and break new paths. Only a few teachers are of that kind and they too are relatively conservative (for rebels) because they are working within the system they wish to change, and largely encourage children to do so as well. That is not the same as being politically conservative, which these days means to be living in an alternate reality, anti-science, opposed to tolerance for those with different sexual or religious practices, etc. That is not very consistent with what most teachers believe and hardly what Somerby advocates here on a daily basis.<br /><br />You may not be a troll. Maybe you work on Maddow's staff or are an intern for Dowd. Maybe you are just mentally disabled with too much time on your hands and preoccupied with a supposed grievance against Somerby (he called you out once for heckling his stand-up show). It doesn't matter what your motives are, you are clearly just making noise here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60895596712528682052013-12-18T13:11:55.384-05:002013-12-18T13:11:55.384-05:00nitpicking. somerby doesnt say it word-for-word bu...nitpicking. somerby doesnt say it word-for-word but he implies that the funding disparity, which the times points out the systemic reason for, is not as big a factor as the times would have it. (thereby supporting those living in the wealthier school districts.)<br /><br />and you are the troll, not me, because you support a troll, somerby, a systemic troll, because he misrepresents himself as a liberal when he is, i suspect, a secret conservative.a. m. adonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74752173206794763292013-12-18T13:11:18.623-05:002013-12-18T13:11:18.623-05:00nitpicking. somerby doesnt say it word-for-word bu...nitpicking. somerby doesnt say it word-for-word but he implies that the funding disparity, which the times points out the systemic reason for, is not as big a factor as the times would have it. (thereby supporting those living in the wealthier school districts.)<br /><br />and you are the troll, not me, because you support a troll, somerby, a systemic troll, because he misrepresents himself as a liberal when he is, i suspect, a secret conservative.a. m. adonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87862210801861885472013-12-18T13:08:34.157-05:002013-12-18T13:08:34.157-05:00But, but, the NYT is not really a liberal paper, a...But, but, the NYT is not really a liberal paper, and no one reads it anyway...<br /><br />Above comment brought to you by trolls anonymous.cacambonoreply@blogger.com