tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post7124950566219149509..comments2024-03-28T18:17:57.067-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Krugman’s assessment of Affordable Care!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42320665121601389382014-04-08T07:42:55.310-04:002014-04-08T07:42:55.310-04:00Do not forget that Obama is the first Democratic n...Do not forget that Obama is the first Democratic nominee for president to get over 50 percent of the popular vote since Jimmy Carter -- and Carter got 50.1 percent.<br /><br />Obama is also the first Democrat since FDR to do it twice.<br /><br />So his skills as a politician are quite formidable.<br /><br />That said, I also get the impression that he is far more interested in the judgment of history than in the judgment of the Republican noise machine. Remember, he was pulling the nation's first national health insurance plan through Congress as he was dealing with an economy on the brink of global collapse.<br /><br />I think that history will judge him quite kindly.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75889476536176553682014-04-08T05:48:27.647-04:002014-04-08T05:48:27.647-04:00Dean Baker does discuss the high cost of medicine ...Dean Baker does discuss the high cost of medicine in the US on a pretty regular basis, however he is a fairly lone voice--unfortunately. He has a book that can be read online for free which addresses what he calls loser liberalism and how to correct these so called free markets which aren't free at all, but rigged by policies which abet the looting by big corporations, policies such as patent monopolies to name just one way in which the medical industry redistributes money upward. There are other ways to pay for research and development without the looting.<br /><br />GWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25286326015543454602014-04-08T00:34:15.490-04:002014-04-08T00:34:15.490-04:00When he ran the chart a while back it had an extra...When he ran the chart a while back it had an extra country in it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75214601886010723642014-04-07T19:39:30.437-04:002014-04-07T19:39:30.437-04:00Your triangle refers to the cost of the product, q...Your triangle refers to the cost of the product, quality of the product and speed with which the product can be produced. In the case of health care legislation, the term "cost" refers to the cost to create the program, not the cost to deliver health care services by that program once created. You have confused the two. If health care costs remain high, that means the quality of the legislation was poor and the system was poorly designed (e.g., of poor quality), not that it cost more to produce that legislation. So, I think this is not a particularly good model of what happened.<br /><br />I agree that the Republicans will criticize whatever is presented by Obama and that their criticisms will have little merit because they don't care whether make stuff up, as long as it is negative. Obama has never mastered the rapid response technique employed by the Clintons to deal with the Republican noise machine. He lets memes get established and then cannot dislodge them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-16562213806911474062014-04-07T19:31:22.123-04:002014-04-07T19:31:22.123-04:00@4:05 Because this is a game to you and not a dis...@4:05 Because this is a game to you and not a discussion of an important issue affecting us all, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17723168815993534902014-04-07T19:25:52.393-04:002014-04-07T19:25:52.393-04:00When the trolls here stop attacking Somerby for no...When the trolls here stop attacking Somerby for no good reason, I promise to (1) get a name, and (2) stop attacking people who behave like trolls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25716362677183991182014-04-07T17:30:27.848-04:002014-04-07T17:30:27.848-04:00Why don't you all just get names?Why don't you all just get names?<br /><br />M. Carpenternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87517111209497669392014-04-07T17:28:58.755-04:002014-04-07T17:28:58.755-04:00One lengthy screed? It would have multiple parts a...One lengthy screed? It would have multiple parts and several "epilogues."<br /><br />In fact, Bob could have used it for the next 16 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-51850560935817036022014-04-07T17:19:41.369-04:002014-04-07T17:19:41.369-04:00Hey TDH readers. Guess what fact Bob diappeared fr...Hey TDH readers. Guess what fact Bob diappeared from this post?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17104233450053446762014-04-07T17:18:36.778-04:002014-04-07T17:18:36.778-04:00You are 4:45 and 3:17. Who else are you? Because...You are 4:45 and 3:17. Who else are you? Because I am<br />3:05 and 3:49 and I am sick of being attacked by you for no good reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63848277604498588372014-04-07T16:55:42.661-04:002014-04-07T16:55:42.661-04:00"No major Democratic candidate has ever propo..."No major Democratic candidate has ever proposed 'single-payer.' "<br /><br />Can you imagine the lengthy screed Bob would pen if Matthews or Maddow ever said anything so objectively false? Let's collectively hold our breath for Bob's correction. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12583732952089551202014-04-07T16:53:27.508-04:002014-04-07T16:53:27.508-04:00I am 3:17 and I am heartily sick of trolls and any...I am 3:17 and I am heartily sick of trolls and anyone who gives aid and comfort to them. I define a troll as someone who is more interested in attacking Somerby than in discussing the ideas in his posts. @3:49 came across as another insincere parody of Somerby's style raising inane questions irrelevant to anything in the post. I have yet to revise that impression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72640907857109324712014-04-07T16:50:36.111-04:002014-04-07T16:50:36.111-04:00@3:53, as I said earlier, I think it hinges less o...@3:53, as I said earlier, I think it hinges less on whether these folks were major candidates than on the definition of single payer. I suggested the various definitions available using Google and I don't think the plans of some of the people mentioned fit those definitions very well.<br /><br />But if he did goof up in that one statement, I don't think it affects the rest of his post much. I tend to agree that the job of reforming health care is less than half done. It seems like a pretty obvious complaint to me and I don't understand the noise level in the comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52470010243692244902014-04-07T16:43:36.852-04:002014-04-07T16:43:36.852-04:003:17's has made up his own unique definition o...3:17's has made up his own unique definition of troll, which seems to be anbody who disagrees with him. He might solve his problem by finding a dictionary of Internet terms.gyrfalconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64405228709415362022014-04-07T16:40:08.248-04:002014-04-07T16:40:08.248-04:00It's a bit early to be making all these pronou...It's a bit early to be making all these pronouncements. One of the major effects -- reduced administrative costs when providers almost always know immediately who will pay them and when -- will not be fulfilled until we get close to universal coverage. lots of things are going to shake out, but it will take time.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10042570476316045772014-04-07T16:21:41.601-04:002014-04-07T16:21:41.601-04:00"Praise from a troll ... ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz..."Praise from a troll ... ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20558443460215586952014-04-07T16:05:50.267-04:002014-04-07T16:05:50.267-04:00Yes, note the game that Bob and his fans play.
No...Yes, note the game that Bob and his fans play.<br /><br />Not only do they get to define "major candidate," but they also get to define "single payer."<br /><br />Thus, not FDR (his was tied to Social Security, but he dropped it to get SS through), Truman, Johnson, or more recently Kerrey, Edwards or Kucinich and their plans fail to fly through the shifting goal posts of "single payer" or "major candidate."<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17598180934405098392014-04-07T15:53:38.358-04:002014-04-07T15:53:38.358-04:00Well to each his own 2:54. But what does his marr...Well to each his own 2:54. But what does his marriage to a<br />younger person have to do with Somerby and other Third Way types trying to dismiss real progressives as major candidates?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13146643975517104272014-04-07T15:50:40.564-04:002014-04-07T15:50:40.564-04:00Even more convenient to pick Libya. But pardon me...Even more convenient to pick Libya. But pardon me. I must have been thinking of their activities inside the US when I said drug running.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1203310067208630662014-04-07T15:49:16.063-04:002014-04-07T15:49:16.063-04:00Pardon me 3:17. You seem to be attacking everyone...Pardon me 3:17. You seem to be attacking everyone who comments here. Including me. Do you think it is a good idea to call everyone but yourself a troll?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64052871741936785632014-04-07T15:19:25.463-04:002014-04-07T15:19:25.463-04:00Couldn't you have offered praise without knock...Couldn't you have offered praise without knocking Somerby? Praise from a troll is worth exactly nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25383100884210077762014-04-07T15:17:20.963-04:002014-04-07T15:17:20.963-04:00You are making that assumption but it is not neces...You are making that assumption but it is not necessarily true. You would need to go back to the source of the figures, which TDH has cited previously but not today. As I recall, they came out of a previous Krugman article, but I may be wrong about that. That source should explain how they calculated the numbers. The reason why I believe it does not include insurance is that it is used to make cross country comparisons to nations where people do not have insurance costs, as we do. If you truly care about this, send an email to Somerby and ask him where the figures come from (or perhaps take one of the figures as a search term and Google it).<br /><br />If you want to be treated more courteously, I suggest trying to sound less like a troll and more like someone interested in discussion rather than playing "gotcha" with Somerby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49271457140236075702014-04-07T15:11:44.112-04:002014-04-07T15:11:44.112-04:00NoNoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-557919534761165482014-04-07T15:11:19.307-04:002014-04-07T15:11:19.307-04:00They were running weapons, not drugs.They were running weapons, not drugs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12039477630547114302014-04-07T15:08:48.831-04:002014-04-07T15:08:48.831-04:00Excellent points. Somerby should spend some time ...Excellent points. Somerby should spend some time in your world. He could have said this much more clearly as you have done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com