tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post747279761752841369..comments2024-03-29T11:52:34.305-04:00Comments on the daily howler: The platinum coin and the death of the west!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74081877558594742042013-01-10T23:55:47.475-05:002013-01-10T23:55:47.475-05:00This is exactly the reality and problem:
" b...This is exactly the reality and problem:<br /><br />" but the overwhelming majority are not."<br /><br />And Krugman's writing needs to be translated for ordinary citizens. Not dumbed down. But into language that can be understood without a glossary for ordinary citizens with a highschool education.<br /><br />And unfortunately so few among the liberal world make the effort. <br /><br />For additional explanation on this problem, Joe Bageant wrote at length about liberal/urban/progressive elite failing to recognize their elitism and their failure to connect or communicate clearly to make any discourse possible with the working class.<br /><br />Sam Gunschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40572565069813484462013-01-10T23:44:45.215-05:002013-01-10T23:44:45.215-05:00If it is your take that Bob obsesses over the 2000...If it is your take that Bob obsesses over the 2000 election, you are clueless; you cannot see the forest for the trees.<br /><br />Horace FeathersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61080278296045033982013-01-09T19:35:18.439-05:002013-01-09T19:35:18.439-05:00There are 12 presidents the regional fed banks. S...There are 12 presidents the regional fed banks. So far, you've got one on your side. Apparently, that one is somehow more important than the rest. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75128179565200878062013-01-09T16:35:41.334-05:002013-01-09T16:35:41.334-05:00And worse still, your comments every day.And worse still, your comments every day.Matt in the Crownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02083162679471045642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69103230969318419812013-01-09T14:37:32.571-05:002013-01-09T14:37:32.571-05:00The Murdoch media doesn't "give as much w...The Murdoch media doesn't "give as much weight to a nonsensical claim from extremists if they have money backing as to a carefully reasoned, correct explanation", they give it much more exposure, and to the exclusion of alternate viewpoints. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26084285148085801312013-01-09T12:39:00.245-05:002013-01-09T12:39:00.245-05:00Bob Somerby sez that Obama can't explain minti...Bob Somerby sez that Obama can't explain minting a coin to address the debt ceiling issue in way that the public can understand.<br /><br />That's probably true.<br /><br />But, Bob, it's no argument.<br /><br />Neither could Obama explain what backs ordinary US currency in a way the public could understand.<br /><br />Neither could Obama explain how Social Security relates (or doesn't!) to the US fiscal deficit, in a way the public could understand.<br /><br />You are right Bob -- Obama can't explain the coin.<br /><br />But the point generalizes: <br /><br />Our discourse is so debased that very little can be explained without the sort of falsifications and simplifications that render the explanations lies.<br /><br />(In this case, shamefully, Bob Somerby uses his platform to *contribute* to the debasement of the discourse by referring to the coin as "magic." But then public enlightenment isn't Somerby's goal on this issue.)<br /><br />So, the public can't understand much. OK, given.<br /><br />But it doesn't then follow that action shouldn't be taken.<br /><br />Unless, like Mr. Somerby, one has forgotten how thinking works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21347730656247282932013-01-09T12:30:42.266-05:002013-01-09T12:30:42.266-05:00The speech is easy:
"My fellow Americans, to...The speech is easy:<br /><br />"My fellow Americans, today I have engaged in an unusual legal technicality to prevent the United States from defaulting on its financial obligations. This technicality -- the minting of a one trillion dollar platinum coin -- is an extreme and peculiar step that will only work temporarily, and that I would never have chosen to take under ordinary circumstances. But it will prevent us from being in legal default on our debt until the give-and-take of the democratic process provides a real solution." From there, switch to urging the Republicans to simply pass an increase in the debt ceiling and work through the normal legislative budgeting process to achieve their goals on changing the country's fiscal direction. "If they have the votes, they should pass the bills, and if they don't have the votes, they should compromise. But they should not continue to try to skip out on paying the bills that we have already agreed to in existing budget legislation."Herb Mallettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00733851301791453856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40563784655083110062013-01-09T12:17:24.284-05:002013-01-09T12:17:24.284-05:00Yep, SH. And, for these same reasons, try explaini...Yep, SH. And, for these same reasons, try explaining to certain people that torture doesn't work.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01774630447390127429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89167690134498655622013-01-09T12:09:10.126-05:002013-01-09T12:09:10.126-05:00Your concern for the nation is duly noted, DinC, b...Your concern for the nation is duly noted, DinC, but there are lots of people who share your climate-denying/lowering taxes raises revenues/Bain Capital was doing the missionary work of capitalism, etc. views. That doesn't make them correct.<br /><br />And since you're great reader of Krugman, you will have seen his blog post today, where he explores the unwillingness of some -- apparently on a moral basis -- to concede that sovereign currencies aren't built around the intuitive principles which govern, say, the family budget; and that cries for return for the gold standard are based far more in prejudice, than economic principles. You view money as an absolute measure of sacred value, rather than as a social convenience. So anyone who challenges your orthodoxy is a heretic and a criminal.<br /><br />The high interest rates and inflation you and Mr. Lacker been predicting for years hasn't, of course, occurred. But you won't budget on your views, because you're convinced that high inflation is the just outcome and comeuppance for a fiscal policy which violates the law of the sacred. That you simply don't understand what money is never occurs to you.<br /><br />So when your prediction don't pan out, it's reality which is wrong!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61380300571503222872013-01-09T11:10:35.886-05:002013-01-09T11:10:35.886-05:00Gravymeister,
And this is all Maureen Dowd's ...Gravymeister,<br /><br />And this is all Maureen Dowd's and Gail Collins' fault? And the fault of hosts of cable TV shows that only Bob and a few shut-ins watch?<br /><br />I am saying that we are awash in information and sources, and the hard work of people who do a very good job of explaining issues in cogent, clear ways. Bob sits upon his throne and calls some of those people dumb, or makes vast generalizations about whole classes of people such as The Professors, some of whom actually explain things quite well.<br /><br />The generalizations on this site, the grinding of axes, the lack of supporting evidence for many arugments, the indulging of pre-conceived notions --- not to mention the relentless hurling of insults from a man who, with a straigtht face, tries to promote mutual respect among disagreeing parties --- are breathtaking.<br /><br />Ain't the blogosphere grand!Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44707601679178384782013-01-09T11:08:17.924-05:002013-01-09T11:08:17.924-05:00You say "stimulate inflation and weaken the d...You say "stimulate inflation and weaken the dollar" as though those were bad things. Inflation is almost zero -- deflation is the danger right now. And a weakened dollar would increase exports, stimulating growth here in the US.<br /><br />Of course, neither major political party will tell you these things. That's why the platinum coin idea is annoying them so much.Tom Allennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-35258521828161565792013-01-09T11:06:45.627-05:002013-01-09T11:06:45.627-05:00Rebutting Republicans' nonsense is not as easy...Rebutting Republicans' nonsense is not as easy as Bob makes it sound. Most of their arguments are carefully tailored to be over-simplistic and to appeal to what many people think is common sense; "the government budget is just like a family budget" "the Trust Fund is just pieces of paper", etc. Countering these things often requires going into technicalities which may be too complex or too subtle for most people. The media give as much weight to a nonsensical claim from extremists if they have money backing as to a carefully reasoned, correct explanation.<br /><br />Certain arguments get no traction, apparently for "ideological" and/or nationalistic reasons. The obvious solution to the excessive costs of health care is some kind of centralized system as in all other advanced countries (not Obamacare, which is certainly not simple), and the fact that such systems are cheaper is hardly a secret, but apparently the prejudice against "socialism" and in favor of "free-markets" can't be overcome - this prejudice just causes people to ignore the facts.<br /><br />By the way, Krugman's columns usually are not only forceful but straightforward with a strong political element - they are carefully designed to appeal to a general, non-technical audience. His blog posts get into more technical and sometimes questionable things. skeptonomisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14867814619333835249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23846527054302310322013-01-09T10:59:19.129-05:002013-01-09T10:59:19.129-05:00Incidentally yesterday's New York Times report...Incidentally yesterday's New York Times reported that one member of the Fed’s policy-making committee shares my worries:<br /><br /><i>Mr. Lacker, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond, has warned repeatedly that the central bank’s extraordinary efforts to stimulate growth are ineffective and inappropriate and, worst of all, that the Fed is undermining its hard-won ability to control inflation. </i><br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/business/a-bold-dissenter-at-the-fed-hoping-his-doubts-are-wrong.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=2&David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36617011046481869802013-01-09T10:57:56.572-05:002013-01-09T10:57:56.572-05:00Confused;
Yes the information is out there, and y...Confused;<br /><br />Yes the information is out there, and yes many "average" citizens are well informed, but the overwhelming majority are not.<br /><br />Understanding what is going on takes work, and people are already working too hard just to make ends meet.<br /><br />Imagine this if you will:<br />Every registered voter in the US reads all the bills up for votes in Congress until he or she understands them clearly.<br /><br />Then the voters write down what effect the bills will have on them personally.<br /><br />Then the voters look up how their elected officials voted, and use that information at the next primary and general elections.<br /><br />"Ain't gonna happen', you say?<br /><br />You're right. It ain't gonna happen. gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42555760018253572082013-01-09T10:46:52.906-05:002013-01-09T10:46:52.906-05:00I agree with Bob that the minting of the magical c...I agree with Bob that the minting of the magical coin would would sound like a crazy idea to most voters. <br />Also IMHO it would souond like a crazy action to many holders of American dollars. The dollar maintains its value only through faith. The bizarre action of minting a $1 trillion coin could shake that faith.<br /><br />American money today has no value, except what people assign to it. You can't exchange it for a certain amount of gold or silver, as was true in the past. American money retains its value because of faith that it will continue to retain the same value. That faith is fairly reasonable IMHO because the dollar has been moderately stable. It hasn't fully held its value. Inflation has averaged around 3% since we went off the gold standard. That's more inflation than is desirable, but it's something we can live with.<br /><br />However, minting a trillion dollar coin could shake that faith. If President Obama can mint a $1 trillion coin, then the next President could mint a $10 trillion coin. If unlimited new dollars can be created so easily, then holders of dollars will worry that large amounts of new dollars <i>will</i> be created.<br /><br />Krugman says that under current economic conditions, huge increases in the monetary base (reserves plus cash) aren’t inflationary at all. He may be right. But, if Obama succeeds in unilaterally increasing the money supply, any future President could use that power at a time when such action would be inflationary. I think the fear of further uniateral increases in the money supply would stimulate inflation and weaken the dollar. <br /><br />David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33385240354988031742013-01-09T10:39:18.432-05:002013-01-09T10:39:18.432-05:00Bob has it right. Republicans come up with some no...Bob has it right. Republicans come up with some nonsensical talking point, and then rather than attacking and rebutting that point, liberals try to talk around it, or come up with an alternative talking point, or change the subject. Never to they stand up and take that point in a frontal assault with plain talk that will reach voters.<br />Jayhawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00756807802218022043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84420098084196491042013-01-09T10:02:19.716-05:002013-01-09T10:02:19.716-05:00Oh, please, there are plenty of media outlets, inc...Oh, please, there are plenty of media outlets, including the NYT and various radio networks, magazines, and such, that explain all of this stuff just fine and clearly. Give me a G-D break. We the People are too busy watching reality TV or Dancing with the Stars, or whatever. <br /><br />Nevertheless, I have read and heard plenty of clear and cogent explanations of all of this issues, and heard plenty of callers to radio programs --- "average Joes and Janes" who pay attention to issues --- able to grasp this stuff and pose thoughtful questions.Confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33544128740965331822013-01-09T09:57:28.318-05:002013-01-09T09:57:28.318-05:00You are right that we haven't explained the de...You are right that we haven't explained the debt ceiling situation to the American public. For one thing, the fact that the debt ceiling doesn't curtail spending, and that it's the Congress (not the president) who authorizes the spending.<br /><br />Nevertheless, Paul Krugman shouldn't be faulted for not explaining that in this article, obviously written for the eyes of people who already understand these things. The dumb clucks you are talking about won't be reading Krugman.<br /><br />We are in this pickle because Obama and the Dems haven't explained this well enough to overcome years of Republican BS. But it's pretty much too late now to accomplish anything with proper explanations. The president - or Congress - has to act. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01774630447390127429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19252892563090115222013-01-09T09:56:16.370-05:002013-01-09T09:56:16.370-05:00Here's "street level politics," Bob:...Here's "street level politics," Bob:<br /><br />Regardless of what Obama does, Fox News et al will go batshit crazy.<br /><br />As to minting the coin in particular, NO ONE ELSE OUTSIDE OF THE FOX-ET-AL WORLD WILL CARE!<br /><br />Just as no one outside of a few thousand viewers care about, or watch, or even know, Maddow, Shultz, etc. Or Dowd or Collins for that matter.<br /><br />Lastly, at the "street level," few if anyone still obsesses over a lost (or stoken) election 13 years ago.Confusednoreply@blogger.com