tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post7870419382384202129..comments2024-03-29T09:31:19.088-04:00Comments on the daily howler: WHERE THE DEPLORABLES ARE: Survey says!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30715357174294116502018-08-18T04:14:27.500-04:002018-08-18T04:14:27.500-04:00Sharing nih bro Obat lipoma tanpa operasi also Oba...Sharing nih bro <a href="https://bit.ly/2nKpunn" rel="nofollow">Obat lipoma tanpa operasi</a> also <a href="https://bit.ly/2MhqVIt" rel="nofollow">Obat penumbuh jaringan kulit dan daging</a> write <a href="http://www.khasiatqncjellygamat.com/cara-mengobati-benjolan-di-depan-telinga-kanan-dan-kiri-secara-alami/" rel="nofollow">Obat benjolan di depan telinga kanan dan kiri</a> reading <a href="https://caramengatasitelatdatangbulansecaraalamidancepat.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Obat telat datang bulan</a> listening <a href="https://caramengatasisudahlamatidakhaidamenoresecaraalami.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Obat untuk atasi sudah lama tidak haid</a> running <a href="https://obatkeloiddiwajahtradisional07.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Obat keloid di wajah</a> next <a href="http://www.penjualprodukberkahwalatra7.com/2018/08/cara-mengobati-nyeri-tumit-kaki-kanan.html" rel="nofollow">Obat nyeri tumit kaki kanan dan kiri</a> going <a href="http://www.pengobatanherbalalternatif.com/cara-menyembuhkan-luka-usus-radang-usus-secara-total/" rel="nofollow">Obat luka usus</a> worry <a href="http://obatpenyakitpadaparu-paru.com/cara-mengobati-limpa-yang-bengkak-secara-alami-sampai-tuntas/" rel="nofollow">Obat limpa bengkak</a> more <a href="http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/obat-benjolan-seperti-bisul-di-bibir-vagina-terampuh/" rel="nofollow">Obat benjolan seperti bisul di bibir vagina</a> Thank you so much...Hani Handayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01748094929226874237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79805112235552164762017-09-28T12:59:34.037-04:002017-09-28T12:59:34.037-04:00Telling potential voters that the reason they supp...Telling potential voters that the reason they support Trump is because they hate women. Or that they are racist. Or that they are insensitive to handicapped people. Surely at least some (many?) of Trump supporters are racist or insensitive. However, making these statements is not going to change the opinions for all those other Trump supporters whose choice is not based on racism. In fact, it is likely they will offended that you think they are racist and will not be open to your extremely logical and important reasons why they should not vote for Trump. Not politically smart. Then we lose.Dave the Guitar Playernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33178602537158030112017-09-27T13:01:03.041-04:002017-09-27T13:01:03.041-04:00Anon 4:33 - Try to stay focused. Bob's opinion...Anon 4:33 - Try to stay focused. Bob's opinion about Nazis doesn't matter. This is a media blog. He points out that very large segments of society have lost faith in the media and their inaccurate reporting on how many people support Nazis is a good example, don't you think?Dave the Guitar Playernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46631131437777244222017-09-25T21:15:29.156-04:002017-09-25T21:15:29.156-04:00Enjoy feeling bad for no good reason.Enjoy feeling bad for no good reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44319359432894613132017-09-25T19:58:32.833-04:002017-09-25T19:58:32.833-04:00Thanks very much for the link, Anon. It sounds to...Thanks very much for the link, Anon. It sounds to me like total BS, but I seriously appreciate seeing an example of what social "scientists" say to each other.David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09068188536758619565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41933595609182021202017-09-25T19:07:48.661-04:002017-09-25T19:07:48.661-04:00We just finished a two-term presidency. How does t...We just finished a two-term presidency. How does that make us a mess?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47995246460575078842017-09-25T18:51:02.564-04:002017-09-25T18:51:02.564-04:00I'll put my foot on your cheek,I'll put my foot on your cheek,Gregnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28187077603466395542017-09-25T18:26:44.180-04:002017-09-25T18:26:44.180-04:00Bob, you've gotten lost in the weeds. We know ...Bob, you've gotten lost in the weeds. We know that your point is that "our side" needs to drop the identity politics. Okay, we get it. But how?Gloucon Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05218027862578514587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2152595030564407842017-09-25T18:16:32.192-04:002017-09-25T18:16:32.192-04:00I'm saying we, Democrats, are a total mess. A...I'm saying we, Democrats, are a total mess. And we are not honest with ourselves about even being a mess not to mention the reasons behind it. Instead of taking responsibility, we turn our focus to Republicans etc. Other messes out there. I guess I am saying we need to take responsibility for our inability to elect a president or majorities. We need to take responsibility for Trump and the class divide and the deteriorating country and culture. It's not totally our fault but we have to take responsibility for letting it get this far out of hand. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25179913277084173752017-09-25T17:10:21.565-04:002017-09-25T17:10:21.565-04:00@3:43 You sound like you're constipated again,...@3:43 You sound like you're constipated again, Greg. It's worrisome. Try some prune juice, perhaps?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9683029483182604322017-09-25T16:45:44.150-04:002017-09-25T16:45:44.150-04:00It IS serious, anon 3:14pm, but it isn't that ...It IS serious, anon 3:14pm, but it isn't that "we are a total mess and not honest with ourselves about it.". (Are you really one of "us"?)<br />There are many other factors contributing to the "mess", a mess I would suggest the country as a whole finds itself in, not just "us". <br />It's not just that Democrats lose, but that conservatives win. Are there structural issues there? Are there underhanded tactics being pursued?<br />Do you think the Repubs are any less screwed up than any other group,<br />just because they are winning elections? Do you think the election of Trump represents a triumph for them? Are their tanking approval ratings and<br />legislative incompetence examples of success? Are the Repubs honest with themselves, let alone with us?<br />When you refer to "we", do you mean all liberals, as Somerby likes to do, or just media figures, or...?<br />And Somerby's one-sided critique doesn't really advance liberal causes. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17047635623692669482017-09-25T16:44:47.025-04:002017-09-25T16:44:47.025-04:00Neo-Nazis have their own Attorney General in Jeff ...Neo-Nazis have their own Attorney General in Jeff Sessions. That's not powerless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-86148066618448447042017-09-25T16:33:21.535-04:002017-09-25T16:33:21.535-04:00It amazes me that Somerby is obsessing over these ...It amazes me that Somerby is obsessing over these percentages in surveys while there are people out marching and demonstrating who obviously support Nazi and white supremacist views and who show enthusiasm for Trump at the same time. They appeared at his rallies and they wave Trump signs at their own events. <br /><br />The only issue here is whether these people exist in the Democratic party in the same numbers as among Republicans. Why isn't Somerby obsessing about what % might be independents? Support for white supremacist and neo-Nazi views is more prevalent on the right. It was a phenomenon of fascism in the 1930s & 1940s and not part of communism, for example. People with such views do not find a home on the left, ideologically or in terms of followers. <br /><br />Somerby seems to be trying to muddy those waters. Why? Is this some kind of plan to make people believe that the left and right are too similar to differentiate? Is he trying to tar both parties so that Bernie can step in as savior? Is he just a spoiler for the Russians, trying to stir up distrust of our political process? I don't understand what his purpose is here and he certainly has no point to be made beyond some odd nitpicking of cherrypicked surveys. <br /><br />What is going on here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49014433072384012902017-09-25T16:22:56.342-04:002017-09-25T16:22:56.342-04:00You make me sick with your high and mighty facts.You make me sick with your high and mighty facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77997447904479903852017-09-25T16:07:05.016-04:002017-09-25T16:07:05.016-04:00Here is a pretty typical example of how sociologis...Here is a pretty typical example of how sociologists talk about racism:<br /><br />https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/matthewclair/files/sociology_of_racism_clairandenis_2015.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-445314675822182432017-09-25T15:59:38.506-04:002017-09-25T15:59:38.506-04:00There exist extreme views among some black people ...There exist extreme views among some black people who agree that segregation is better and support the ideas of white nationalists that separate states should exist. There also exist people who are unfamiliar with the term white nationalists and may not know what it means, and people who are not taking the survey seriously and responding randomly to the questions. <br /><br />You can get small minorities of people to agree that the earth is bigger than outer space, that they are not human beings, and so on. This happens any time you give a survey and is part of the territory.<br /><br />Do you know for sure that this was administered as a phone survey? Seems unlikely if it has been conducted for 40 years. <br /><br />I don't think it is surprising that the 65+ group most strongly disapproved of neo-nazis because they are the ones who remember WWII and its aftermath. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-50833198982713634442017-09-25T15:51:36.297-04:002017-09-25T15:51:36.297-04:00Somerby says: "We don't agree on how you ...Somerby says: "We don't agree on how you determine if someone is a racist. There's no established way to form such a judgment"<br /><br />He only says this because he knows nothing whatsoever about social science, about racism, or about the people who study it.<br /><br />Philosophy concerns itself with definitions of things. Social science does not define phenomena -- it operationalizes them. That term "operationalize" means that you describe precisely how you will measure something and you then refer to that measurement as what you are studying. So, instead of defining anger, I would describe how I will measure anger and observe it in the world, and that will be what I mean by "anger" whenever I refer to it. So it is with racism. Researchers define how they measure it and that measurement becomes the thing that is then studied.<br /><br />Researchers have been studying racism for a long time now, and they certainly know how to measure it.<br /><br />But Somerby doesn't understand anything about how social science works empirically. So he pretends that the inability of philosophers to agree on what racism is extends to the sciences, who do not wait for that perfect definition, but study what exists in the world, using the a variety of measures that can and do capture the phenomenon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63347678074808986942017-09-25T15:43:27.384-04:002017-09-25T15:43:27.384-04:00I'll take my knee bone to your lip.I'll take my knee bone to your lip.Gregnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18641726757183505092017-09-25T15:14:45.024-04:002017-09-25T15:14:45.024-04:00I see what you mean but it is serious in that Demo...I see what you mean but it is serious in that Democrats are losing elections to complete fools. That's very serious that we can't beat someone as goofy and loutish as Trump. It's important to address and talk about the fact we are a total mess and not honest with ourselves about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76616496420715553092017-09-25T14:44:40.307-04:002017-09-25T14:44:40.307-04:00Stop beating a dead horse. There are more serious ...Stop beating a dead horse. There are more serious issues to discuss. Alan Snipeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05070460889011106908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89960271840093609352017-09-25T14:38:11.271-04:002017-09-25T14:38:11.271-04:00"More often, we're just too lazy, too dum..."More often, we're just too lazy, too dumb and too unskilled to have examined the full data sets."<br /><br />And why would you want to do it anyway; clearly it's a 'garbage in - garbage out' exercise... <br /><br />Like you said yourself a few days ago: it's all the narrative, facts don't matter.<br /><br />As for the neo-Nazis (even real, but mostly imagined, "neo-Nazi" being the favorite liberal slur these days) - they are, clearly an underdog group, with no political power, being attacked from all sides. And people tend to sympathise with the underdog, especially the one who stands firm in the face of hysterical and overwhelming pressure. C'est la vie...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78315829496031670032017-09-25T14:21:07.277-04:002017-09-25T14:21:07.277-04:00It was a stupid political move that she admitted a...It was a stupid political move that she admitted as was the example she provided in her book to justify the stupid claim also stupid and ignorant. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42607122260305278152017-09-25T14:19:36.337-04:002017-09-25T14:19:36.337-04:00The survey results are kinda hard to believe. 5% o...The survey results are kinda hard to believe. 5% of black people have a strongly favorable opinion of white nationalists? Really?<br /><br />A couple of things I would note.<br />1. this is a fairly long survey, so somebody was on the phone being asked questions for 10-15 minutes.<br />2. there are obvious opportunities for either trolling or confusion.<br />3. somewhat surprisingly the age group 65+ had the highest percentage of those who strongly disapproved of neo-nazis and white supremacists. I am thinking this age group was voted "least likely to troll".<br /><br />Of course, the surprising results may be repeatable.Dr. Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47780383388689232032017-09-25T14:09:28.827-04:002017-09-25T14:09:28.827-04:00"As for Clinton, she's adamantly refusing..."As for Clinton, she's adamantly refusing to say that her offhand remark last fall was unwise and unhelpful, full stop."<br /><br />Clinton has said exactly this in both interviews and in her book. She even said it shortly after she made her remark and it was blown up into a huge issue by Trump with a major assist from the media. No one listens to what Clinton says, certainly not Somerby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22675724155838355742017-09-25T14:04:58.311-04:002017-09-25T14:04:58.311-04:00I wish Somerby would read his comments because I h...I wish Somerby would read his comments because I hate being as repetitious as he is.<br /><br />1. Clinton didn't cite only that one question and she didn't base her remark on just that question either. She used that question as an EXAMPLE, hence her words: "for example" immediately preceding discussion of that question. The survey itself contains a number of other related questions that Clinton also discussed but Somerby omits, pretending she only mentioned one. He even italicizing the word one above.<br /><br />2. Somerby says:<br /><br />"We'll only say that "creative" questions of this type—"inkblot, Rorschach-style survey questions—may tend to generate much more heat than light."<br /><br />The survey questions on race are not particularly creative. They have face validity, in the sense that they measure what someone would think they measure, racial attitudes and beliefs.<br /><br />Somerby would really get upset about the kinds of questions that have little face validity, such as "Door knobs tend to have germs." used to measure whether someone might make a good fire fighter or not. Those depend only on the fact that good fire fighters tend to answer such a question a particular way, but the question itself has nothing to do with fire fighting.<br /><br />An inblot test or projective test is an entirely different matter. First, such a test is not an objective test and it is not scored using numbers the way a survey is. Secondly, it presents an ambiguous image that allows a responder to project internal thoughts and feelings onto the image. A person tells a story about the image and by doing so, unintentionally reveals things he or she may not even be aware of. You could test for racism this way, but this is nothing like the kind of question on that survey. Early inblot texts depended on psychoanalytic theory and sought subconscious conflicts during therapy. Not so much anymore. Inkblot tests have very little to do with psychological testing these days.<br /><br />But Somerby readily confuses psychology and sociology here. The survey is sociological, or maybe social psychology (in the hands of a social psychologist). Somerby is criticizing it by referring to psychological instruments, developed for very different purposes and used differential in different kinds of studies.<br /><br />That doesn't bother Somerby. He plunges ahead with perfect ignorance, blasting away at things he doesn't want to acknowledge. And why is he resisting the idea that Republicans are more overtly racist than Democrats? It is placing him in the position of being an ersatz climate denier only with respect to social issues. And just as denying reality when it comes to mother nature has consequences, so does denying social reality, because people won't put up with this shit forever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com