tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post8925770759778451831..comments2024-03-29T06:44:19.414-04:00Comments on the daily howler: What did America’s children do?<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79801609648280761432018-07-17T05:33:52.290-04:002018-07-17T05:33:52.290-04:00ديكورات الجبس شركة سحر اللمسات<br /><br /><a href="https://lmsatt.com/%D8%AC%D8%A8%D8%B3-%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF/" rel="nofollow"> ديكورات الجبس </a>شركة سحر اللمسات <br />mohamedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07120109660850003707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5250250681475840732012-08-01T02:24:48.743-04:002012-08-01T02:24:48.743-04:00Incredible, this really is gorgeous. Think about a...Incredible, this really is gorgeous. Think about all of the studying as well as composing you could do this... Frosty in the winter however.Buy Diablo 3 goldhttp://www.vipdiablo3.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18236422248279808452012-06-12T12:29:02.852-04:002012-06-12T12:29:02.852-04:00Yeah, if you want to avoid being parodied you migh...Yeah, if you want to avoid being parodied you might want to not provide such a rich vein of material!<br /><br />"No one is racist anymore, or at least if they are, we can't prove it and certainly shouldn't comment on it."<br /><br />"Bob's written post after post about how liberals should never call anyone racist because it just makes them mad and then they won't listen to the liberals' keen ideas about how to make society work better. He's also written extensively about how we can never know what motivates anyone to do anything, no matter how much of a resemblance their actions might bear to those of a person motivated by racism (Zimmerman) or homophobia (Romney). So I've decided to take him at his word. Yes, there was slavery, but it was 100 years ago and we fixed it. So what causes these children of today to not measure up? Oh, poverty, you might say. But what causes that? Isn't everyone equal now? Haven't all barriers been erased?"<br /><br />If you're gonna write thick horsecrap stuff like that, you're gonna get mocked for your thickness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91995523556744136092012-06-12T10:53:54.915-04:002012-06-12T10:53:54.915-04:00It's not "clever" to notice how idio...It's not "clever" to notice how idiotic you've been.<br /><br />The Anonymous Idiot, hardly a fantasy, is spot on.<br /><br />You're clearly hurt. Wah!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59709928839445399022012-06-10T19:33:00.999-04:002012-06-10T19:33:00.999-04:00Shorter Anonymous Idiot:
I am so very clever! I ...Shorter Anonymous Idiot:<br /><br />I am so very clever! I have nothing to do! Any criticism of Bob Somerby is an offense against humanity!<br /><br />If nobody criticizes Bob Somerby, I will post my Shorter contribution in advance! Because you never know! There are so many anti-Somerby miscreants in this world, one can't be too careful! Besides, I'm so very clever! Everyone says so! Nothing gets by me! I get my rocks off summarizing my fantasy of other people's posts! It's so very rewarding!<br /><br />The Shorter Anonymous IdiotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14894694688650301322012-06-10T01:42:56.174-04:002012-06-10T01:42:56.174-04:00Anonymous @ June 9, 2012 12:13AM, a standard-issue...Anonymous @ June 9, 2012 12:13AM, a standard-issue progressive and thereby a scholar in American social history, sardonically writes:<br /><br />>>>>>><i>Bob's written post after post about how liberals should never call anyone racist... So I've decided to take him at his word. Yes, there was slavery, but it was 100 years ago and we fixed it. So what causes these children of today to not measure up? Oh, poverty, you might say. But what causes that? Isn't everyone equal now? Haven't all barriers been erased?</i><<<<<<br /><br />This follows by a couple of years Bob Somerby having discussed some relatively recent social history in his <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:U-yRI5XvKZIJ:www.dailyhowler.com/dh093010.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" rel="nofollow">September 10, 2010</a> edition of the <i>Daily Howler:</i><br /><br />>>>>><br /><br />“Forty years ago, American students were first?” [“education reporter” Rehema] Ellis led with this amorphous claim, suggesting that the state of the schools has greatly declined since that golden age. But at what were American students first? Ellis didn’t explain. But in the context of elementary and middle school test scores—in a discussion of low-income students—this was an astonishing claim, a claim which reinvents brutal history.<br /><br />How bizarre was Ellis’ claim? Forty-three years ago, in 1967, Jonathan Kozol published his famous book, <i>Death at an Early Age.</i> He described the year he spent teaching fourth grade in a low-income Boston school.<br /><br />Kozol’s book won the National Book Award during the golden age cited by Ellis. Chapter 2 started like this:<br /><br />******<br /><b>KOZOL (page 9):</b> <i>Many people in Boston are surprised, even to this day, to be told that children are beaten with thin bamboo whips within the cellars of our public schools and that they are whipped at times for no greater offence than for failing to show respect to the very same teachers who have been describing them as niggers.</i><br />******<br /><br />Oh, that glorious era! Indeed, Kozol started his opening chapter with some of the most memorable persuasive writing of that or any day. This was his real-time account of an age when, according to NBC News, “American students were first:”<br /><br />....“American students were first,” Ellis said, referring to that past glorious age—an era when children like Stephen were whipped, insulted and handed strings of substitute teachers, when the national test scores of kids like Stephen reflected this ludicrous treatment. Truly, for six-figure players like Ellis, there is no lie too vast to recite in service to corporate scripts....<br /><<<<<CMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481861530761114492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12197025460938036032012-06-09T20:37:02.004-04:002012-06-09T20:37:02.004-04:00Shorter comments:
Yes, Collins is groaningly wron...Shorter comments:<br /><br />Yes, Collins is groaningly wrong. <br /><br />But I don't like Bob pointing that out.<br /><br />So I pretend there is another problem here:<br /><br />I pretend Bob has implied both that unequal educational outcomes must be due to racism and that there is no racism.<br /><br />Yes, this makes me an idiot.<br /><br />The Anonymous IdiotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28713556801419633482012-06-09T17:54:33.885-04:002012-06-09T17:54:33.885-04:00AnonymousJune 9, 2012 12:13 AM:
There are still...AnonymousJune 9, 2012 12:13 AM: <br /><br />There are still racists obviously. It's frustrating - I hear what you're saying but Bob is saying that playing the racist card is really bad politics for us on the left and perhaps should be avoided.steve riederernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37975128826652545972012-06-09T16:44:08.822-04:002012-06-09T16:44:08.822-04:00I don,t think so since schools are forbidden to as...I don,t think so since schools are forbidden to ask about legal status. Another factor that may impact Hispanic student achievement is a home environment in which three languages, Spanish , English, and an indigenous language like Mixtec or Otomi are mixed freely with no ral native or first language for the children. In my experience as an ESOL teacher, children from homes where an indigenous language is spoken have very limited oral language and literacy skills, even after three to four years of formal education in English. It is not unusual for us to find through testing that the English and Spanish language skills of a third grader from an indigenous background hover around kindergarten level. We do not have the resources to assess fluency in Mexican indigenous languages, but interviews with parents and the kids indicate that these children can understand some of what is spoken between the parents in the indigenous language but cannot speak it themselves. Bob doesn't seem too interested in factors like home environment which might partly explain lower Hispanic achievement since it's not a topic he can rant about on his blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76866455322329567632012-06-09T14:34:18.653-04:002012-06-09T14:34:18.653-04:00Someone would also need to write how Dubya never s...Someone would also need to write how Dubya never said "Nigeria" when he said Saddam was trying to buy uranium from Africa, even though the British intelligence report, already debunked long before the words came out of his mouth, to which Dubya clearly referred, had clearly said "Nigeria."<br /><br />That would explain how the bad guy in the whole Valerie Plame thing was not Scooter Libby or his boss, Dick Cheney, but Joe Wilson, Plame's husband, who brought all this on, while Dubya's State of the Union speech that made the case for "preemptive war" was pure as the driven snow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83180356191715470022012-06-09T13:59:04.264-04:002012-06-09T13:59:04.264-04:00Could someone please write a story in a major news...Could someone please write a story in a major news outlet that explained that NAEP scores were going up, some of Bain's episodes were "looting," and that it was wrong to be mean to Al Gore for wearing the wrong colored suit? Maybe that would snap Bob out of the fugue state he appears to have lapsed into for the past several years. Like "Awakenings," only with punditry instead of L-dopa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10179859269139068282012-06-09T08:22:37.284-04:002012-06-09T08:22:37.284-04:00The cause-effect chain between past laws and custo...The cause-effect chain between past laws and customs and present achievement gaps is much stronger for blacks than for Hispanics, who did not suffer repeated family breakups due to slavery and who were not barred from learning to read and write. The first cause, coupled longstanding economic discrimination may explain why black children have always been more likely to grow up in single-parent homes with a higher risk of poverty. The second reason may partly explain why black children have access to fewer books compared to white children of the same SES.<br /><br />Hispanics are a different case. Their historical experiences with discrimination have been no worse than those of Asians, yet the latter excel every other group, including whites. This points to other reasons for Hispanic underachievement. One reason is parental educational attainment. Hispanic immigrants are less educated than Asians because a porous border makes it feasible for the very poorest Mexicans and Central Americans to enter the US to live,work,and raise children. The illegal status of the parents and some older children makes I very hard for these families to improve their living standards. Some Asian families live here unlawfully,too, but they cam ebetter educated and with assets since they had to qualify for some kind of visa like a tourist or student vis in order to board the airplane. A $30,000 journey hiding in a container ship crossing an ocean versus a $2,000 trip hiding in a vehicle crossing the Tijuana-San Ysidro border outs a better life out of reach of the poorest Asians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64390431475942457002012-06-09T00:13:09.757-04:002012-06-09T00:13:09.757-04:00Bob's written post after post about how libera...Bob's written post after post about how liberals should never call anyone racist because it just makes them mad and then they won't listen to the liberals' keen ideas about how to make society work better. He's also written extensively about how we can never know what motivates anyone to do anything, no matter how much of a resemblance their actions might bear to those of a person motivated by racism (Zimmerman) or homophobia (Romney). So I've decided to take him at his word. Yes, there was slavery, but it was 100 years ago and we fixed it. So what causes these children of today to not measure up? Oh, poverty, you might say. But what causes that? Isn't everyone equal now? Haven't all barriers been erased?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-29839789206313857212012-06-08T23:55:28.137-04:002012-06-08T23:55:28.137-04:00If you are going to criticize can we at least see ...If you are going to criticize can we at least see the data. One of the things I like about Krugman is that he presents the evidence for his claims.Pinkybumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14966880596265799283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22039135203298041342012-06-08T22:11:48.098-04:002012-06-08T22:11:48.098-04:00Good idea. Can that be done? Are the data availa...Good idea. Can that be done? Are the data available by that kind of demographic break?Frednichnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60446233194538942082012-06-08T20:09:05.267-04:002012-06-08T20:09:05.267-04:00A fair number of Hispanic students in Texas are t...A fair number of Hispanic students in Texas are third and fourth generation Americans who may not speak much Spanish, but a majority of Hispanic students in many other states like North Carolina and Kansas are the children of immigrants. Even if we gave free green cards to every immigrant without one,these deserving kids would still lag behind because of little or no academic support at home from non-English-speaking parents with low educational attainment. Since Bob is a fan of data disaggregation, perhaps he could see if there is any difference in achievement between Hispanic children born to US citizens and those born to immigrants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17333842480977436902012-06-08T19:50:59.772-04:002012-06-08T19:50:59.772-04:00Ummm, I think the primary tragedy he is referring ...Ummm, I think the primary tragedy he is referring to is slavery, and the effect it had on literacy among blacks (as he has said repeatedly). I don't think anyone is claiming that "no one is racist anymore." If you can find some evidence to back that up in the Howler archives, please share.cacambonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-613541448764720912012-06-08T19:16:46.857-04:002012-06-08T19:16:46.857-04:00The student population in Texas is heavily black a...<i>The student population in Texas is heavily black and Hispanic. Due to the tragedies of American history, this tends to bring down overall scores in the state ...</i><br /><br />Do explain about these tragedies, Bob, and how they affect the performance of these deserving children today. Because no one is racist anymore, or at least if they are, we can't prove it and certainly shouldn't comment on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-71323699006859793752012-06-08T17:06:42.942-04:002012-06-08T17:06:42.942-04:00Agreed, Gail Collins is a clown.
But where do you...Agreed, Gail Collins is a clown.<br /><br />But where do you get the idea that Republicans aren't "evil, incompetent or just plain stupid"? <br /><br />They sure are, and that's the biggest problem we have in this country. It wouldn't matter that Collins was a clown, if we didnt need her, or a writer in her space, to call the Republicans to account.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53832136281590922752012-06-08T14:48:26.587-04:002012-06-08T14:48:26.587-04:00Not having read the book (and not intending to eit...Not having read the book (and not intending to either!), I'll bet it's just a variation on a theme that the left loves so much, that Republicans and/or conservatives are either evil,incompetent or just plain stupid. While the book's blurb notes that she has "visited" Texas, I'm also willing to bet that most of the "research" for this epic tome (288 pages)was conducted in the luxy confines of her Morningside Heights apartment.<br /><br />While fans of her work will no doubt lap this up, like the various "studies" produced by liberal groups "proving" that Republicans, conservatives and Fox News viewers are either uneducated, ill-informed or suffering from some form of brain malady, this work will very quickly fade into well-deserved obscurity.TobyTuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05598549743757103132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4748117385252506312012-06-08T13:46:14.163-04:002012-06-08T13:46:14.163-04:00http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/lets-b...http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/lets-blame-the-unions/<br /><br />April 9, 2012<br /><br />Let’s Blame the Unions<br />By Paul Krugman<br /><br />A good article in the Times about the terrible state of Texas schools * — followed by a truly awful comment thread, in which many readers rush to blame, you guessed it, teachers’ unions.<br /><br />Folks, this isn’t an article about New York, where three-quarters of public-sector workers are unionized. It’s about Texas, where only one in five public workers belongs to a union. Blaming unions for the problems of Texas is like, well, blaming Jews for the problems of Japan: there aren’t enough of them to matter.<br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br />* http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/us/for-texas-schools-a-year-of-doing-without.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-3602134556063960482012-06-08T13:43:50.478-04:002012-06-08T13:43:50.478-04:00I had already looked at the Texas testing scores a...I had already looked at the Texas testing scores and was impressed. Even Paul Krugman sometime in the past made a foolish remark about education test results in Texas as compared with those of Wisconsin. Krugman was wrong, but never corrected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-34929068783453811692012-06-08T13:41:43.206-04:002012-06-08T13:41:43.206-04:00Important criticism, indeed, since it plays to ste...Important criticism, indeed, since it plays to stereotypes and the stereotypes need to be torn up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com