tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post9078063942296307868..comments2024-03-29T11:46:33.453-04:00Comments on the daily howler: He's one of the three most important logicians!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64934969417807126392022-06-22T11:24:53.207-04:002022-06-22T11:24:53.207-04:00Maybe you have to be educated to find his anti-int...Maybe you have to be educated to find his anti-intellectualism offensive, or his constant nitpicking of female and black writers, or his unattributed borrowing from authors or his misogyny or his constant apologies for right wing atrocities (Roy Moore) or his ongoing bigotry. I assume he is amusing if none of that bothers you, and you din’t mind sophistry and mangled stats. Why don’t you just skip the comments so you can enjoy him untarnished?<br /><br />How would you know what is tongue in cheek?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57570101096565913762022-06-22T10:09:15.744-04:002022-06-22T10:09:15.744-04:00Yes we all know Somerby can do no right! When he ...Yes we all know Somerby can do no right! When he posted a short message that he was taking the day off, it was picked apart and criticized. Any and all references are scrutinized in ways that aren't even in context. Tongue-in-cheek comments are taken literally and extrapolated upon wildly. But I guess people need to pass the time somehow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44464039214131801702022-06-22T09:27:50.453-04:002022-06-22T09:27:50.453-04:00Yes, as noted previously, Somerby thinks that no e...Yes, as noted previously, Somerby thinks that no effort should have to be expended to understand something complex and technical. Being unimpressed by something that should be impressive to you, is a sign of stupidity and ignorance. <br /><br />People who are not academics may be potential philosophers, but they would have to expend the effort to understand. Expending such effort would make them no longer members of the general public but experts in what they are studying. Then Somerby would be unimpressed with them too.Not a rodenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216459357112547141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24659147129181217172022-06-22T09:24:09.795-04:002022-06-22T09:24:09.795-04:00There is a difference between cognitive science (e...There is a difference between cognitive science (especially computational modeling of cognitive processes) and psychology (which is 90% clinicians). Psych majors don't study Godel, even in grad school.<br /><br />It is odd that Somerby keeps mentioning Aristotle, when Aristotle has no practical relevance to modern life and got as much wrong as he did right in his natural philosophy (corrected by Isaac Newton, among others). Not long ago, Somerby was complaining that philosophy has no relevance, which is also wrong, given that philosophy majors go on to become lawyers and ethicists (now a career path in medicine and other fields making life and death decisions). Not a rodenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216459357112547141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9194192701585727922022-06-22T09:13:16.961-04:002022-06-22T09:13:16.961-04:00Over at Kevin Drum's blog there are a bunch of...Over at Kevin Drum's blog there are a bunch of people in the comments who are demonstrating that they understand Godel and find value in his work. Better books for understanding Godel's theorem are mentioned. This is what a more intelligent discussion of Godel, one that takes his work seriously (unlike Somerby) looks like.Not a rodenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216459357112547141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22955847348616188812022-06-22T05:02:58.143-04:002022-06-22T05:02:58.143-04:00Being a little cynical one might say Bob isn't...Being a little cynical one might say Bob isn't that impressed with Gödel. Maybe closer to the point, Bob isn't impressed with other writers who are impressed with him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33399185964153858592022-06-22T04:58:29.078-04:002022-06-22T04:58:29.078-04:00This cuts both ways. When Bob says "nobody&qu...This cuts both ways. When Bob says "nobody"reads an author, and you say that you study him in academia, you are defending academics as people. <br /><br />However, Bob is something of an egalitarian, or at least stresses even handedness. To him, the exclusion of the general public from reading Gödel (with maybe some exceptions due to the 1999 book) is the priority. In essence, he is saying that people who are not academics are also potential philosophers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31187569949461634392022-06-21T22:05:11.280-04:002022-06-21T22:05:11.280-04:00I learned about Aristotle in high school Western C...I learned about Aristotle in high school Western Civ, but that’s only because A is more popular than G. <br /><br />Otherwise, psychology majors wouldn’t have to wait till graduate school to pretend to understand him. Ceceliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162272807640653299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84296948879739768462022-06-21T21:49:45.100-04:002022-06-21T21:49:45.100-04:00Only people who took a humanities course in colleg...Only people who took a humanities course in college know who Aristotle is. I’d bet there are more computer science majors these days. Is greatness among thinkers really a popularity contest, as Somerby suggests?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28000395886165328462022-06-21T19:54:06.702-04:002022-06-21T19:54:06.702-04:00I think you’re seriously having difficulties with...I think you’re seriously having difficulties with being too literal as to “nobody” and that the reference point was Aristotle. Ceceliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162272807640653299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-85791292894027782062022-06-21T19:48:08.555-04:002022-06-21T19:48:08.555-04:00Are you seriously having difficulty with the diffe...Are you seriously having difficulty with the difference between “no one” and “a number of people greater than zero?” I became aware of Gödel via a popular book called “Gödel Escher and Bach.” You are really something, Cecilia. mhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2303347299993448872022-06-21T19:29:00.982-04:002022-06-21T19:29:00.982-04:00This is choice:
“No one has ever heard of Frege,...This is choice: <br /><br />“No one has ever heard of Frege, or of Gödel either. "<br /><br />This is untrue. Godel was taught in the first class in modeling in my graduate program.”Ceceliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162272807640653299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30310763096235276712022-06-21T19:27:17.152-04:002022-06-21T19:27:17.152-04:00So, I guess Bob didn’t watch the hearings.
What a ...So, I guess Bob didn’t watch the hearings.<br />What a surprise. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75988066728037794082022-06-21T19:08:21.606-04:002022-06-21T19:08:21.606-04:00"No one has ever heard of Frege, or of Gödel ..."No one has ever heard of Frege, or of Gödel either. "<br /><br />This is untrue. Godel was taught in the first class in modeling in my graduate program. His theorem is important to computer science. Others have said the same thing here. Somerby doesn't listen and he imagines that his own ignorance encompasses "everyone," which is very far from the truth.<br /><br />It is a waste of time to continue to discuss Somerby's obsessions, each time they roll around. Instead, lets ask why Somerby is so invested in taking obscure but important scholars and telling us that no one cares about them or their work. What does Somerby get out of doing this? <br /><br />Yes, it is anti-intellectual and it does undermine the idea that there is such a thing as expertise -- even though the technology that surrounds us must convince at least some people that knowledge has contributed to our lives in various ways, some incredibly important. But why does Somerby seem to pick men who were considered insane in their later years? Is this some sort of defense mechanism now that he hiself is reaching old age without much to show for his life? If so, that is something to work out with a therapist. Maligning people like Godel, who made important contributions, just makes Somerby seem small, and kind of sad. It does nothing to diminish Godel, except among people as ignorant as Somerby is.Not a rodenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216459357112547141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32775067644414296922022-06-21T17:47:57.104-04:002022-06-21T17:47:57.104-04:00They can't be proven or disproven within the s...They can't be proven or disproven within the system. However, they are constructed in a way that, from outside the system, we can see that the statement is true. The statement is "This statement cannot be proven"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-6058825681697635842022-06-21T16:47:38.170-04:002022-06-21T16:47:38.170-04:00"...there are true propositions about the nat..."...there are true propositions about the natural numbers that can be neither proved nor disproved..."<br /><br />Hmmm. There are statements that are neither provable nor disprovable. It seems to us, dear Bob, that there is no reason to call them "true", in this context. That's the whole point. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com