tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post1832100163808174666..comments2024-03-28T17:08:40.848-04:00Comments on the daily howler: EYES WIDE SHUT: Nothing to look at, the author said!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49362383188579930842013-09-20T00:00:55.808-04:002013-09-20T00:00:55.808-04:00This website is actually nice and the viewers are ...This website is actually nice and the viewers are genuinely sharing nice thoughts. I like it.Medisoft Programhttp://www.ironcomet.com/medisoft-programnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43475796798511174942013-09-16T07:40:15.677-04:002013-09-16T07:40:15.677-04:00Nice information, many thanks to the author. It is...Nice information, many thanks to the author. It is incomprehensible to me now, but in general, the usefulness and significance is overwhelming. Thanks again and good luck!Vision Correction Surgery San Diegohttp://carlsbad-eye-care.com/ophthalmology-services/lasik-eye-surgery/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54589267113159673752013-08-14T23:36:27.997-04:002013-08-14T23:36:27.997-04:00Well, it's good that you can't believe tha...Well, it's good that you can't believe that, Trollmes. You may be so incapable of ascertaining the point about media malfeasance that you think Gore should have considered his debate treatment as a political favor, but at least you know the blogger isn't that clueless.<br /><br />CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14462894909856957302013-08-14T23:24:35.950-04:002013-08-14T23:24:35.950-04:00And I suppose Dickens could have said "It was...And I suppose Dickens could have said "It was the best and worst of times" and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich could have been something along the lines of The Little Engine That Could.<br /><br />These are the blogger's thoughts, arguments, deliberations, and conclusions. If you find them boring then why don't you go read Democratic Underground, and let the rest of us be intrigued.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60219778727355501202013-08-14T23:12:06.084-04:002013-08-14T23:12:06.084-04:00CeceliaMc,
I see your point, sort of...but isn&#...CeceliaMc, <br /><br />I see your point, sort of...but isn't that Gore/Bradley debate the worst possible example TDH could give? I mean TDH has bashed the Bradley candidacy for many years now, but on that issue even Gore himself would now favor Bradley's position over the one he had espoused back in 1999. <br /><br />I can't believe that TDH is arguing that the media should have focused more on healthcare so that Bradley would have been the Democratic nominee. So I still think that aspect of the post confuses the overall point about healthcare expenses in the US. Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41323426742983875662013-08-14T23:03:51.538-04:002013-08-14T23:03:51.538-04:00Perhaps Cecelia Mc one could argue that customer s...Perhaps Cecelia Mc one could argue that customer service is important for Amazon.com<br />without arguing that the media failure to cover differences in UPS and FedEx management and union counteroffers prior to the 1999 strike signals a societal paralysis akin to pre Republican Ireland. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72186594851715447802013-08-14T22:46:35.962-04:002013-08-14T22:46:35.962-04:00Not only is it logical to detail why the health is...Not only is it logical to detail why the health issue is of national importance while making the point that poor coverage is essentially media malfeasance, it's imminently logical.<br /><br />You might as well argue that customer service is important for Amazon,com, but concerns about a UPS and FedEx strike are a distraction.<br /><br />CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87250343851805320972013-08-14T22:30:35.672-04:002013-08-14T22:30:35.672-04:00>>> not sure of the grammar, but on subst...>>> not sure of the grammar, but on substance the runnner up to the first annual nail on head award is:<br /><br />AnonymousAugust 14, 2013 at 5:20 PM<br /><br />"I (unlike the lord of darkness) just don't act like them when I accuse them of acting like others." ['lord of darkness' mine]ty tanicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59536361970439273272013-08-14T22:19:44.682-04:002013-08-14T22:19:44.682-04:00>>> nail on head award to:
AnonymousAugu...>>> nail on head award to:<br /><br />AnonymousAugust 14, 2013 at 3:18 PM<br /><br />"I am glad to see Bob talk about the NYT's articles about health care. I just don't think reliving press coverage of a 1999 debate adds much to it, particularly when the tale is spun with such errant embellishment by a one man crusader against such spinning. <br /><br />I am glad to see Bob talk about the NYT's articles about health care. I just don't think reliving press coverage of a 1999 debate adds much to it, particularly when the tale is spun with such errant embellishment by a one man crusader against such spinning."ty tanicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-51726084836742503952013-08-14T21:40:40.951-04:002013-08-14T21:40:40.951-04:00This post can be about A) comparing US healthcare ...This post can be about A) comparing US healthcare costs to other nations' or B) why Al Gore didn't get elected. It can't realistically be about both without compromising focus (and logic). Al Gore didn't lose because reporters failed to communicate Gore's popular healthcare program. <br /><br />Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46078938500033668402013-08-14T20:45:52.926-04:002013-08-14T20:45:52.926-04:00How is it "wrong-headed and unhelpful to anyo...How is it "wrong-headed and unhelpful to anyone" for the blogger to write about what he considers to be media malfeasance in ignoring the specifics in a health care policy debate in '99, and in ignoring them now?<br /><br />The media handling of the issue may not be YOUR interest, but that doesn't make it "unhelpful" for everyone else.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12831836729568117882013-08-14T20:00:35.035-04:002013-08-14T20:00:35.035-04:00October 99 LA Times Headline:
Gore Skewers Bradle...October 99 LA Times Headline:<br /><br />Gore Skewers Bradley Health Insurance Plan<br />Politics: In tactical shift, vice president brands rival a left-leaning 'insurgent,' ridicules proposal as 'throwback.'<br /><br />By 2002, Gore was calling for single-payer, but back when he was campaigning for President his stated views were quite different. <br />http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1115-07.htm<br /><br />To the extent that this TDH post calls for more media attention to the costs and effectiveness of healthcare by analyzing international data, this is a very good post. The tie-in back to 1999 is a distraction at best and wrong-headed at worst--it's unhelpful to anyone. Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17559268750319965932013-08-14T18:20:11.644-04:002013-08-14T18:20:11.644-04:00That's the way to start. Then you move on to p...That's the way to start. Then you move on to programs that give consumers the same tax incentives that businesses receive so that they can own their policies rather than their employers, and then watch the garment rending commence.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48832186758769822262013-08-14T18:15:46.134-04:002013-08-14T18:15:46.134-04:00If you were indeed concerned about the media and a...If you were indeed concerned about the media and about issues you wouldn't be nitpicking Bob and the other commenters here.<br /><br />TDH talks about health care and it's coverage and that's not good enough for the guy who wanted substance.<br /><br />As it stands, you're solely interested in finding fault with this blog. That's all you're here for.<br />CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32591288548318552202013-08-14T17:22:05.364-04:002013-08-14T17:22:05.364-04:00Well, it is more descriptive than their position w...Well, it is more descriptive than their position when the bill was before Congress, which was "Let's start over with a clean sheet of paper."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79610991400214176592013-08-14T17:20:25.136-04:002013-08-14T17:20:25.136-04:00Sorry CeceliaMC. I could care less what degree of ...Sorry CeceliaMC. I could care less what degree of partisanship Bob Somerby does or does not show. I share a great deal of contempt for the same media characters he does. I just don't act like them when I accuse them of acting like others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69172907150798798782013-08-14T17:14:35.829-04:002013-08-14T17:14:35.829-04:00When comparing numbers at that level, you need to ...When comparing numbers at that level, you need to be sure that the conditions are comparable. If one population buys fleets of Mercedes and another buys fleets of Chevys that does not demonstrate that it costs more to build a care in one area than another - only that one population chooses to purchase higher-level autos. If one population gets into many more accidents than another, their cost of autos and repairs will go up - and once again says nothing about the relative cost of building autos.<br /><br />To have an honest comparison between nations, you need to look at many factors, including trade-offs between care and neglect, and rates of injuries and illnesses. Just assuming that everybody is the same is not likely to result in accurate or meaningful comparisons.FuzzyFacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16954689009569716785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5400627715761644932013-08-14T16:25:31.167-04:002013-08-14T16:25:31.167-04:00The Republicans HAVE a position on healthcare in t...The Republicans HAVE a position on healthcare in the US, and I quote, "Obamacare is a train wreck." Period.gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38735868859593240172013-08-14T15:39:48.046-04:002013-08-14T15:39:48.046-04:00No, you're not very glad, Poo-poo. Otherwise ...No, you're not very glad, Poo-poo. Otherwise a foray into how seriously the subject of health care (and the candidates' positions) was treated by the media would garner a more measured reaction reaction than 'yeah, the media sucks at informing us about our candidates and our national issues, but you hotdogged it on Gore."<br /><br />Then you go on to diss the commenters here.<br /><br />Unless, this dog starts throwing around partisan insults you just aren't going to let him rest.<br />CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21235180411021028132013-08-14T15:18:15.280-04:002013-08-14T15:18:15.280-04:00Anon
I think I have heard your reaction describe...Anon <br /><br />I think I have heard your reaction described before:<br /><br />"In what kind of world does a.... <strong>commenter</strong>.... sit quietly by while famous old howlers like these get repeated to the public? Answer: In a colonial world, where the wisdom of the people is constantly undermined by the fatuous favorite tales of a whole gang of old Cotters."<br /><br />CecliaMc<br /><br />I am glad to see Bob talk about the NYT's articles about health care. I just don't think reliving press coverage of a 1999 debate adds much to it, particularly when the tale is spun with such errant embellishment by a one man crusader against such spinning.<br /><br />If either of you have anything factual to rebut me with other than my offense of pointing out the drool on the codger's bib, let me know.<br /><br />PPPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9345793347046392542013-08-14T14:57:04.318-04:002013-08-14T14:57:04.318-04:00"You are right Bob. Liberals have said little..."You are right Bob. Liberals have said little about the abysmal performance of the press back then. The press is saying too little about the high cost of health care now. And your readership, it would seem by commentary volume measurement, would rather flap their gums and assert that a trial proved Trayvon Martin stalked George Zimmerman for four minutes than talk about this issue."<br /><br />Translation: Yeah...Yeah..Who cares if you talk about liberal concerns such as health care and corporate media collusion, you still aren't talking smack about Republicans.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87474509498249810392013-08-14T14:39:49.612-04:002013-08-14T14:39:49.612-04:00"And your readership, it would seem by commen..."And your readership, it would seem by commentary volume measurement, would rather..."<br /><br />YAWN!<br /><br />By Poo Poo volume measurement, a lot less of your Poo Poo is what this readership would actually like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77976533811413313032013-08-14T14:37:05.143-04:002013-08-14T14:37:05.143-04:00Actually, the "total spending on health care&...Actually, the "total spending on health care" numbers quoted above -- and the large insurance premium payments by made by insureds and employers -- tell us that procedures *do* actually cost so much more in the US.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48039940176085529422013-08-14T14:34:56.803-04:002013-08-14T14:34:56.803-04:00Poo Poo Platter (Serving the same Dump-lings sinc...Poo Poo Platter (Serving the same Dump-lings since 1999)<br /><br />Well, where to start with this rehash of Somerby's special sauce, the horrible treatment of Al Gore by the press after his debate with Bill Bradley back in a previous century.<br /><br />First, let us note for the historical record, for those who believe in polls, that Al trailed Bill by more than the margin of error in New Hampshire going into the first debate which somehow today managed to become a focal point of a post about a current NYT series. Despite the savage depiction of him by the elite media, he won the New Hampshire primary and went on to be the Democratic nominee. He even went on to win the General election at the ballot box. <br /><br />(Second, Mr. Somerby engages in quite an enormous amount of the old media spinning himslef when he describes that evening in October of the prior millennium thusly:<br /><br />"the first Gore-Bradley debate, <strong>which turned on the basic structure of American health care:</strong><br /><br />The event was actually formatted as a town hall. And neither Gore nor Bradley did much to offer a debate on the structure of American health care. Many issues were discussed in response to audience, rather than press, questions. <br /><br />Gore managed to turn a question into a point of attack on Bradley's health care proposal, which more closely resembled universal health insurance coverage than did Gore's plan. The issue in the debate was whether Bradley's proposal cost more than he estimated and would, as Gore charges, devour the entire budgetary surplus.<br /><br />Even if covered in full by every pundit following the "debate", what was discusssed had nothing to do with the structure of American health care nor the issue of high cost raised in the excellent Blumenthal articles.<br /><br />You are right Bob. Liberals have said little about the abysmal performance of the press back then. The press is saying too little about the high cost of health care now. And your readership, it would seem by commentary volume measurement, would rather flap their gums and assert that a trial proved Trayvon Martin stalked George Zimmerman for four minutes than talk about this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91153431595220664712013-08-14T13:40:28.380-04:002013-08-14T13:40:28.380-04:00The price quote was from a hospital. A major facto...The price quote was from a hospital. A major factor in that is very simply that quoted hospital prices are fantasies, with no real connection to the amount that hospitals expect to collect.<br /><br />The vast majority of hospital patients do not pay their own bills; they are paid, and more importantly, negotiated by insurance companies or the government, both of which have their own ideas of how much they are willing to pay - and the hospitals know that they have to accept those rates.<br /><br />So the obvious problem is the people without insurance, who actually do receive bills with the hospital numbers. Naturally, many of them panic, look for ways to raise the cash, or in some cases, sue. $18 per Tylenol is common.<br /><br />But the hospitals know that they will not collect those numbers. <br /><br />A very instructive blog post some months ago described how one person responded. He knew he couldn't pay the bill (around $10,000, I think), and kept putting off dealing with it. Naturally, he expected a collection agency to come after him.<br /><br />What actually happened, though, was that a year-and-a-half later, the hospital billing department asked him if he would be willing to settle the bill for about $150. Naturally, he lept at the chance.<br /><br />Much more commonly, those in the know negotiate with hospitals, offering some much smaller amount to settle the bills, and usually successfully. But you have to know that you can do it, and how. Hospital bills are not like almost any other debt. Most people with insurance never have to deal with them.<br /><br />So the bottom line is that the hospital charge sheet is a fantasy document, and it is simply not the case that procedures actually cost so much more in the US. The problem is that the hospitals ASK for so much more, with no expectation that they will get it, and yet sometimes they do because the system requires patients to know more than they should have to.FuzzyFacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16954689009569716785noreply@blogger.com