tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post2268189286308175866..comments2024-03-19T04:03:14.637-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Coates keeps offering original thoughts!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22817318383771211672013-06-20T00:56:42.216-04:002013-06-20T00:56:42.216-04:00As a teacher I'd just say, yes, at some point,...As a teacher I'd just say, yes, at some point, "disruptive students" may have to be removed from the group for the benefit of others. But, you know, in the meanwhile, these "disruptive" ones are our students, too: real people with real needs and desires, and as a teacher, you serve them equally. (In fact, some of the "disruptive" ones may be the most creative and promising in terms of their contributions to the larger group, over time). So, what to do? Every teacher struggles with such questions all the time (well, very nearly all do). That's what makes it a challenging profession.<br /><br />Emma seems to have learned from the "disruptive" ones, and I suspect that a few of them learned from her, too. mchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-35081763874813560412013-06-19T21:54:06.119-04:002013-06-19T21:54:06.119-04:00The crappy schooling Collier describes is hardly u...The crappy schooling Collier describes is hardly unique to predominantly African-American schools, so I don't see what it has to do with Moynihan or Ta-Nehisi's defense of him. (And Ta-Nehisi maybe ought to look beyond Moynihan's published books to his speeches, interviews and his political career before he so completely exonerates him from the racial stereotyping and bias charges against him.)<br /><br />It's largely a problem of schools in poor neighborhoods, but certainly not exclusively. I went to a large almost exclusively white suburban high school in a solidly middle class town in the Northeast, supposedly a very good one, and what Collier describes is what I encountered in most of my classes.<br /><br />I vividly remember my 12th grade English teacher who had us diagramming sentences and writing "precis" of each chapter of the simplest but heavily bowdlerized Dickens we were given to read.<br /><br />And yes, I aced them all pretty much, got into a high quality college on the basis of that-- and crashed and burned my first year because I didn't have any of those study skills, either. I managed to graduate, but just barely.<br /><br />So let's be a little careful here about attributing this sad situation to race, OK?<br />gyrfalconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47709369956600391522013-06-19T18:08:02.995-04:002013-06-19T18:08:02.995-04:00good take bob. thanksgood take bob. thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7628400374344632482013-06-19T16:42:24.828-04:002013-06-19T16:42:24.828-04:00I'll buy what Bob said, except for one quibble...I'll buy what Bob said, except for one quibble. I think a part of the problem is due to certain aspects of today's educational methods. Here are three examples:<br /><br />1. Bob himself has mentioned the lack of textbooks appropriate to students whose reading skills are substantially below their age and grad level. Such texts ought to be available.<br /><br />2. Disruptive students. The WaPo article says, "But motivated students said they can get lost in classrooms dominated by disruptive students or students who are years behind and struggling with the basics." I believe it's relatively difficult to eliminate disruptive students today. To take an extreme example, one of the books in the "Little House on the Prairie" series describes a (male) teacher using a horse-whip to drive away some young men who are trying to disrupt the class.* I don't recommend allowing teachers to use weapons, but IMHO teachers could use more ways to prevent disruptive students from hampering their teaching.<br /><br />3. It's too hard to get rid of bad teachers. A particular teacher, Mr. B, greatly damaged my daughter in 2nd grade. I learned later that various parents groups had fought to get Mr. B fired. Their only "success" was to get him moved away from their children's elementary school to a different school in the same system. After many years of gross incompetence, Mr. B was finally fired when it was discovered that he was a pederast and had sexually abused some of his young students. (BTW he was teaching racially mixed classes. I was told that he was molesting black boys, although he himself if white.)<br /><br />*Farmer Boy had the horse-whipping scene in the third chapter, with background on it in the first two chapters. The "slim, pale, young" teacher is taught by Almanzo's father how to handle a horsewhip so he could keep five big thugs in line. These boys, BTW, were criminal 16 or 17 year old bullies and "everyone was afraid of them. ...They boasted that no teacher could finish the winter term in that school, and no teacher ever had." It is mentioned that one of the teachers they beat "died of it later." <br /><br />http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=297735David in Calnoreply@blogger.com