tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post2839346733355376763..comments2024-03-18T23:40:21.985-04:00Comments on the daily howler: INVENTING THE OTHER: Liberally loathing!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39780522593545837732013-06-26T16:41:41.560-04:002013-06-26T16:41:41.560-04:00You mad, brah?
Look, no need for the hostility. ...You mad, brah?<br /><br />Look, no need for the hostility. I was just trying to put some context into Bob's claim that he had never in his life heard the n-word used in a derogatory way by a white person. I don't think he's being insincere, in fact I believe him. But, it shows that he hasn't been exposed to a lot of blue collar whites, because what is considered acceptable speech in that culture is much different than what is considered acceptable speech in other environs. As anyone like me who has experienced both sides of this divide knows, this is obvious. majnebnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77128474345377537522013-06-26T13:07:16.675-04:002013-06-26T13:07:16.675-04:00"Bob has obviously been confined to one side ..."Bob has obviously been confined to one side of that divide."<br /><br />Well maybe, except maybe for the part where he taught school in Baltimore...<br /><br />More seriously, what is the point of these comments? <br /><br />Your own post, even if its ridiculous dichotomy is fully accepted, implies that yes, a great many Americans would indeed never hear this slur used in their daily lives, true? <br /><br />So what's the point? It doesn't do anything for the (supposedly important) issue of Somerby's naivety or insincerity, so what's it about? <br /><br />You just have to chime in that, yeah, you've hung with some unreconstructed racists, therefore "cultural divide" something something? OK thanks, brah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39486778190914736622013-06-25T19:39:20.536-04:002013-06-25T19:39:20.536-04:00I'm 39 and have repeatedly heard the "n-w...I'm 39 and have repeatedly heard the "n-word" used by white adults, but almost exclusively by those with blue collar backgrounds. Though I am in a white collar occupation now, I worked in the construction industry for ten years and those types of racial slurs and racial jokes were quite common.<br /><br />This makes me believe even more strongly that the widest cultural divide in modern America exists between those who work at a desk with a computer and those who don't. It's really two different worlds, and per his experiences Bob has obviously been confined to one side of that divide. <br />majnebnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52503297767353711462013-06-25T16:37:11.301-04:002013-06-25T16:37:11.301-04:00He simply doesn't care what the truth is. His...He simply doesn't care what the truth is. His intent is to troll, that's all. Anything that seems likely to hold together enough to get a response is good enough for him. Wanton disregard for the truth is dishonesty. That's not to say he isn't stupid, because he plainly is -- a decent troll could come up with better arguments. But one can be dishonest AND stupid at the same time, which are the two words I'm most inclined to use for Mr. DinC. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2858787096325825092013-06-25T15:46:53.387-04:002013-06-25T15:46:53.387-04:00MacCecil,
The key word here is "purposefull...MacCecil, <br /><br />The key word here is "purposefully," a necessary ingredient in "deception." It takes forbearance in the face of ignorance, especially seemingly-willful ignorance not to jump to an accusation of dishonesty. I urge it upon you in the name of TDH.<br /><br />When Bluto asked "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" did you think he was being intellectually dishonest? deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23859641450228086502013-06-25T14:40:55.532-04:002013-06-25T14:40:55.532-04:00deadrat: I disagree that it's unfair to accuse...deadrat: I disagree that it's unfair to accuse DiC of intellectual dishonesty..<br /><br />From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:<br /><br />Intellectual honesty is an applied method of problem solving in academia, characterized by an unbiased, honest attitude, which can be demonstrated in a number of different ways, including but not limited to:<br />One's personal beliefs do not interfere with the pursuit of truth; Relevant facts and information are not purposefully omitted even when such things may contradict one's hypothesis; Facts are presented in an unbiased manner, and not twisted to give misleading impressions or to support one view over another;<br />References, or earlier work, are acknowledged where possible, and plagiarism is avoided.<br /><br />Harvard ethicist Louis M. Guenin describes the "kernel" of intellectual honesty to be "a virtuous disposition to eschew deception when given an incentive for deception."<br /><br />Intentionally committed fallacies in debates and reasoning are sometimes called intellectual dishonesty.<br />MacCecilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-68716669981337019322013-06-25T13:26:58.293-04:002013-06-25T13:26:58.293-04:00MacCecil, consistent (rigidly) and persistent (cea...MacCecil, consistent (rigidly) and persistent (ceaselessly) DAinCA may be, but I think it's unfair to accuse him of intellectual dishonesty. I think he believes what he posts. And it's not as if he doesn't understand the concept of due diligence, it's that for him belief <i>is</i> due dilignecedeadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-16054327952263801962013-06-25T13:01:02.785-04:002013-06-25T13:01:02.785-04:00Anonymous on 6/25/13 @ 7:52A, DAinCA may not have ...Anonymous on 6/25/13 @ 7:52A, DAinCA may not have many friends among the commenters on TDH, but in the wide world he does, and in fact, their name is legion. They think in lockstep and write in the same voice. A few minutes with the google will reveal their unanimity about the incident at IUPUI: "convicted of discrimination," "guilty of harassment."deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22659983837868899642013-06-25T12:45:17.337-04:002013-06-25T12:45:17.337-04:00While I've heard a few racial jokes in my life...While I've heard a few racial jokes in my life, when I was a kid, the most derogatory jokes I heard were aimed at people of Polish ancestry. I was told quite a few by people who didn't know my mother's folks came from Poland, I didn't react because the guys telling them seemed to be cretins. But then a friend of my kid brother told a really bad Polish jokes involving misuse of outhouses to my mother. She didn't get angry. She instead dryly commented that the last time she heard the joke the protagonist was Irish (the kid's ethnic group). He reacted in disbelief and shock and ran home to tell her mother, who came storming over to bawl out my mother for daring to suggest a demeaning joke could be told about the Irish. Apparently the ethnic jokes tellers can dish it out but can't take it. A great life lesson!JimHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31693994062463932432013-06-25T12:01:09.354-04:002013-06-25T12:01:09.354-04:00One incident (which you've grossly misrepresen...One incident (which you've grossly misrepresented) is not "about how colleges and universities deal with accusations of racial harassment. Looking at the bright side, you ARE very consistent and persistent in demonstrating your intellectual dishonesty.MacCecilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-27906036520137917202013-06-25T07:52:59.533-04:002013-06-25T07:52:59.533-04:00"...It got DaInCA so worked up he actually th..."...It got DaInCA so worked up he actually thinks he has friends."<br /><br />[/fixed that for you]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-90328352219245407952013-06-25T01:44:54.779-04:002013-06-25T01:44:54.779-04:00Quaker in a Basement, Of course there's more t...Quaker in a Basement, Of course there's more to the story: a clueless co-worker of the hapless reader filed a complaint and found an equally clueless university administrator to make a fuss. "Convicted'! "Guilty of Racial Harassment"! What actually happened to the reader? No disciplinary action. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. The administrator put a letter in the guy's employment file, the ACLU stepped in and demanded the letter's removal, and the University caved and issued a letter of apology.<br /><br />There's no dumb and lazy like school administration dumb and lazy. Unless it's media dumb and lazy, as TDH likes to point out. But it wasn't all a loss. It got DaInCA so worked up he actually thinks he has liberal friends. deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25227708579164945112013-06-25T01:26:14.497-04:002013-06-25T01:26:14.497-04:00Easy, Anonymous on 6/25/13 @ 12:42A, we own everyt...Easy, Anonymous on 6/25/13 @ 12:42A, we own everything.<br />deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67579856573164735292013-06-25T01:14:02.477-04:002013-06-25T01:14:02.477-04:00Anon and Anon - your comments about the legal syst...Anon and Anon - your comments about the legal system may be correct. However, the comment in question is not about the legal system or the court system. It's about how colleges and universities deal with accusations of racial harassment.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2249533888366889122013-06-25T00:42:40.202-04:002013-06-25T00:42:40.202-04:00And ignore all the evidence that shows the legal s...And ignore all the evidence that shows the legal system actually treats black people far more harshly than white people. David in CA has found this one case, plus his imaginary "liberal" friend, that say otherwise. White people have it so hard. How do they persevere against all the discrimination? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7116425702395338362013-06-25T00:37:39.357-04:002013-06-25T00:37:39.357-04:00Look out, white people. Black people will loot yo...Look out, white people. Black people will loot you through the court system. So says David in CA, who, between picking shit out from between his teeth, cites as evidence one case which was overturned on appeal. Live in fear of black domination of the legal system! They're coming to get you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77647243353406177492013-06-24T21:26:27.432-04:002013-06-24T21:26:27.432-04:00What else do you want, Quaker? Despite having don...What else do you want, Quaker? Despite having done nothing at all wrong, the student was convicted. I might add that book was not outlandish. In fact, it was in the school library. <br /><br />After intervention by FIRE and the ACLU, his conviction was overturned. And, after the case got national publicity, the Dean eventually apologized.<br /><br />Here's a quote from an <a href="http://thefire.org/article/9294.html" rel="nofollow">article written by Samson:</a><br /> <br /><i> that didn't stop the Affirmative Action Office of Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis from branding me as a detestable Klansman. <br /><br />They didn't want to hear the truth. The office ruled that my "repeatedly reading the book . . . constitutes racial harassment in that you demonstrated disdain and insensitivity to your co-workers." <br /><br />A friend reacted to the finding with, "That's impossible!" He's right. You can't commit racial harassment by reading an anti-Klan history. <br /><br />For months, I felt isolated and dejected. Yet I knew that most of the faculty, staff and students at Indiana University were good people. The campus is a growing, thriving part of Indy, where people of all colors and religions come to study. <br /><br />But the $106,000-a-year affirmative-action officer who declared me guilty of "racial harassment" never spoke to me or examined the book. My own union - the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees - sent an obtuse shop steward to stifle my freedom to read. He told me, "You could be fired," that reading the book was "like bringing pornography to work." </i><br />David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70337776956878859412013-06-24T19:25:47.936-04:002013-06-24T19:25:47.936-04:00Surely there's more to the story, David.Surely there's more to the story, David.Quaker in a Basementnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8099503574453041052013-06-24T19:24:32.377-04:002013-06-24T19:24:32.377-04:00And let's forget what being accused of being p...And let's forget what being accused of being pink by Joe McCarthy did during the 50's. Ray DeLagartonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77270129685362806772013-06-24T17:51:27.479-04:002013-06-24T17:51:27.479-04:00A dramatic example of the principle my friend enun...A dramatic example of the principle my friend enunciated was the case of Keith John Sampson, a student-employee at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI) who was <a href="http://thefire.org/case/760.html" rel="nofollow">found guilty of racial harassment</a> for merely reading the book <i>Notre Dame vs. the Klan: How the Fighting Irish Defeated the Ku Klux Klan</i> during his work breaks. <br />David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-412992450381986852013-06-24T17:44:09.448-04:002013-06-24T17:44:09.448-04:00Holy crap. I'm ten years younger than Deen and...Holy crap. I'm ten years younger than Deen and Somerby, and even before I moved to Alabama from DC I heard racists jokes in public and use of what is now known as The N-Word by adults. Down here in Alabama (much closer to Deen country) it is not at all uncommon for white people, when they think they are in sympathetic company, to tell jokes and use the word in a BUSINESS setting, not just in private. <br /><br />I used to watch the Food Network when it was about teaching cooking instead of celebrity chefs and competitions. Could never stand Deen's show, or cooking, but not sure she is being fairly treated (but then, I'm also not paying much attention to it).martinmcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22718520946157368022013-06-24T15:52:58.395-04:002013-06-24T15:52:58.395-04:00I'm sure your "liberal friend Gary" ...I'm sure your "liberal friend Gary" is about as liberal as Mickey Kaus. And about as real as Mickey Mouse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25353991537783788282013-06-24T15:41:18.539-04:002013-06-24T15:41:18.539-04:00My liberal friend Gary is a Professor at Northwest...<i>My liberal friend Gary is a Professor at Northwestern University. Gary told me once that if someone was accused of something racial by a black person, s/he would always be found guilty of some wrongdoing. I hope that standard hasn't spread to the world of TV.</i><br /><br />1) Bullshit. 2) There's little danger of this alleged "standard" being applied in the case of Ms. Deen. Her accuser is white.Quaker in a Basementnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-71943859535353363092013-06-24T15:30:53.334-04:002013-06-24T15:30:53.334-04:00One point for Ray. Minus one point to Kenny for re...One point for Ray. Minus one point to Kenny for reading-comp fail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54152948518399821382013-06-24T15:17:37.992-04:002013-06-24T15:17:37.992-04:00My liberal friend Gary is a Professor at Northwest...My liberal friend Gary is a Professor at Northwestern University. Gary told me once that if someone was accused of something racial by a black person, s/he would always be found guilty of some wrongdoing. I hope that standard hasn't spread to the world of TV.<br /><br />There have been ugly examples in the past when an accusation pretty much meant a conviction. One was the witch trials, another was Stalin's reign. I hate to think that today's society in any way resembles these awful periods.David in Calnoreply@blogger.com