tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post2937463394376878506..comments2024-03-28T17:46:57.181-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Supplemental: Public school propaganda again!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12914722193872359032014-10-28T18:01:27.399-04:002014-10-28T18:01:27.399-04:00Of course it can't. Carol Costello ruined it....Of course it can't. Carol Costello ruined it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63277674884108009282014-10-28T15:19:35.992-04:002014-10-28T15:19:35.992-04:00What you care about is obvious in what you choose ...What you care about is obvious in what you choose to mock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65387950646020182702014-10-28T14:27:15.429-04:002014-10-28T14:27:15.429-04:00"If you had any sincere interest in kids your..."If you had any sincere interest in kids yourself, you would be doing something useful to benefit them, like teaching or even babysitting, instead of devoting your waking hours to attacking some guy on the internet."<br /><br />Isn't it just amazing that a person who also spends precious waking hours defending his favorite blogger can make all sorts of presumptions about how others spend their waking hours and what they truly care about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59122350885156075352014-10-28T12:56:45.961-04:002014-10-28T12:56:45.961-04:00The reappearance of the spellcasters suggests that...The reappearance of the spellcasters suggests that<br />what seems to be in your mind could also be an implication others might possibly infer. But perhaps not. Nothing ynallyaM tells us differently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63829155497876251462014-10-28T12:51:23.923-04:002014-10-28T12:51:23.923-04:00@ 11:34
Gack! We hoped for a better response. A...@ 11:34<br /><br />Gack! We hoped for a better response. Alas.<br /><br />""cherry picking," a favorite term that suggests you are KZ again" @ 11:34<br /><br />"Cherry-picking Reardon, the propagandists sold you the opposite tale." Bob Somerby<br /><br />By your logic, Bob is KZ.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-51406045488583213202014-10-28T12:41:13.713-04:002014-10-28T12:41:13.713-04:005:30 could count.5:30 could count.Aileen Overtempnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40431607608175087522014-10-28T12:03:12.371-04:002014-10-28T12:03:12.371-04:00Median years of schooling in 1920 were 8, high sch...Median years of schooling in 1920 were 8, high school graduation rate was 25%. However, I think the fact that someone didn't go to college does say something about their learning -- people who go to college tend to learn more. Maybe that wasn't what you meant to say?<br /><br />https://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/Fischer_Hout_Tables%20Figures.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21359461984741981952014-10-28T12:01:00.275-04:002014-10-28T12:01:00.275-04:00It is not very scientific to look at one essay fro...It is not very scientific to look at one essay from one student at one school at some specific time period and try to generalize about nation wide academic progress. It makes a lot of sense to at least try to quantify what is going on. It does not help you to understand to discard the only tool you have to make a judgement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30415465778221582342014-10-28T11:56:32.232-04:002014-10-28T11:56:32.232-04:005:30 can simply employ his/her clairvoyance to kno...5:30 can simply employ his/her clairvoyance to know that Howler readers would rather wrestle over Palin fight tapes than discuss educational gains of black kids. But you knew that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57516502961270400962014-10-28T11:34:46.667-04:002014-10-28T11:34:46.667-04:00@8:50 -- Somerby explained why he uses NAEP data a...@8:50 -- Somerby explained why he uses NAEP data and why OTHERS who are not him also prefer that test as a measure of student progress in the US. Choosing something is not the same as "cherry picking," a favorite term that suggests you are KZ again, despite using the Anonymous name. Cherry picking is the selective use of data to confirm or support a particular point. Selecting a test as the best available measure and then looking at the results is not cherry picking. If you think some other test is better, present your arguments. You cannot, because you are not an expert on education, have no idea about such measurements, have no reason to suggest any other test would show any different results, and exist only to attack Somerby -- no matter what he says or how he says it.<br /><br />Suggesting that Somerby has no interest in kids is just silly. If you had any sincere interest in kids yourself, you would be doing something useful to benefit them, like teaching or even babysitting, instead of devoting your waking hours to attacking some guy on the internet.<br /><br />There was an interesting book on standup comedians a few years back that suggested their motives for doing comedy are to help others by making them laugh, introducing humor into their lives. Most see themselves as serving the public in an important way, making lives better. That is entirely consistent with the service impulse of most teachers and many standups are former teachers, not just Somerby. <br /><br />You wish to portray someone who changes careers as a failure in both. That is ridiculous. The large majority of teachers leave the profession, half within the first 4 years. It is hard working with kids. Somerby's 10 years are longer than normal (average is 5 years before leaving, less in urban schools).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26828429157730075822014-10-28T11:23:52.960-04:002014-10-28T11:23:52.960-04:00We have not forgotten. Which is why we remember t...We have not forgotten. Which is why we remember that while BOB was immersed in fighting the gap, Al Gore was taking the initiative to create as a young scribe from an Ivy college working in our most corrupt and elite guild.KZoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63276432860857346402014-10-28T10:24:59.477-04:002014-10-28T10:24:59.477-04:00Bob's free trial for the robot screener seems ...Bob's free trial for the robot screener seems to have expired.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78739649099408278762014-10-28T10:24:23.793-04:002014-10-28T10:24:23.793-04:00There you go again.
Have you forgotten that four ...There you go again.<br /><br />Have you forgotten that four decades ago, Bob taught kids before he left the classroom to further their interests through stand-up comedy?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70327770577339156752014-10-28T09:37:42.631-04:002014-10-28T09:37:42.631-04:00Good to see Laura Zamora is not a robot.Good to see Laura Zamora is not a robot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14930045699183219042014-10-28T09:36:20.700-04:002014-10-28T09:36:20.700-04:00Good morning Anon @ 8:32 AM. What questions have ...Good morning Anon @ 8:32 AM. What questions have been addressed? By whom?<br /><br />Can you explain how 9 year olds can score as well as 11 year olds from a previous generation on a test that 11 year olds never took?<br /><br />Can you explain why, when 17 year olds taking the NAEP long term trends test showed no significant improvement over the last twenty years, BOB uses progress from the forty years ago as his standard?<br /><br />We are happy to note that the long term trends test has shown progress for kids aged 9 and 13 in the last eight years after a period of stagnation. Perhaps that will be reflected among 17 year olds taking the Gold Standard test in years to come. It has not to date. Anyone who prides themselves on insisting on high standards of "journalistic proof" in others should admit that simple fact instead of ignoring it, excusing it away, presenting other statistics in their juciest form, then accusing others of cherry picking. <br /><br />Finally, can you explain why you think we have less interest in children than BOB? He has none. We do.ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82825479503149270862014-10-28T08:50:11.823-04:002014-10-28T08:50:11.823-04:00So it doesn't bother you that Somerby cherry-p...So it doesn't bother you that Somerby cherry-picks one standardized test out of many and calls that the "gold standard" then further cherry-picks the data within that one test until he gets the result he wants?<br /><br />Of course it doesn't bother you. It beats thinking for yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17695094545048432662014-10-28T08:32:48.907-04:002014-10-28T08:32:48.907-04:00No matter how many times these questions are addre...No matter how many times these questions are addressed, KZ keeps coming back with them, as if raising them for the first time, as if no one had responded. This wastes everyone's time, especially since KZ has no sincere interest in kids but seeks only to harm Somerby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-88297814463760876942014-10-28T00:43:37.101-04:002014-10-28T00:43:37.101-04:00The fact that someone didn't go to college cir...The fact that someone didn't go to college circa 1927 says nothing about the person's brains or learning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-163313333352087672014-10-27T23:28:26.570-04:002014-10-27T23:28:26.570-04:00One would think that gains at age 9 that are lost ...One would think that gains at age 9 that are lost by age 17 would raise some very serious questions in the mind of a serious analyst of data.<br /><br />What is happening to these kids between 9 and 17? And the answer may not be just the education system.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78713045626220645982014-10-27T23:09:31.993-04:002014-10-27T23:09:31.993-04:00OMB (Cherry Picking and Grinnin with Boxcar BOB)
...OMB (Cherry Picking and Grinnin with Boxcar BOB)<br /><br />So today we have BOB making an accusation of cherry picking because two op-ed writers quote a professor's study accurately from 2011 but left out something he said two years later in a different article.<br /><br />This from the same saint of journalistic accuracy who deliberately <strong>left out parts of the same sentence</strong> in his last post to make it appear worse than it was. <br /><br />OK BOB. Let's see what you and the Professor left out.<br /><br />"Where are we getting our data? We’re referring to the basic data which have emerged from the National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP), the federal testing program which began in 1971,"<br />says BOB establishing his authority. Then he quotes Professor Reardon is an effort to use NAEP data to "dispel myths."<br /><br />"The average 9-year-old today has math skills equal to those her parents had at age 11, a two-year improvement in a single generation." Professor Reardon, quoted by BOB to prove cherry picking.<br /><br />There is just one problem here. The NAEP has never tested 11 year olds. Never. Ever. There is no way you can compare today's 9 year old test scores to the scores of 11 year olds who never took the test.<br /><br />But BOB, who proved he is slicker than a polecat when inventing cherries about Poles and their test scores, committed a bigger Howler with the earlier part of the quote he chose to highlight:<br /><br />"In fact, average test scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the so-called Nation’s Report Card, have been rising—substantially in math and very slowly in reading—since the 1970s."<br /><br />No BOB, and no Professor Reardon, they haven't. <br /><br />Test scores in reading for 17 years olds, you know, the kids who are finishing their time in our public school system, are statistically the same today as they were in 1971. Test scores for white students are statistically the same as they were in 1975. Between 1975 and 1988 there were were significant reading test score gains for both black and Hispanic 17 year olds. But since that time there have been no such significant gains. None.<br /><br />But what about math, you ask? (Probably not. At this point you are checking the color of Maddow's clown shoes as you plummet beside her off the GW Bridge).<br /><br />The average 17 year old's test score showed a modest 7 point improvement from 1978, the year of the first math test, to 1992.<br />In the last twenty years they have fallen a point. White kids? Hispanics, Blacks? The former showed modest improvements from 1978 to 1992, but no significant gains since. Minority kids showed big gains until 1992, but no significant gains since.<br /><br />What does this mean? It means BOB can present this quote knowing it is true: <br /><br />"according to our most reliable data, students today are performing better in reading and math than their counterparts forty years back."<br /><br />But he cannot say the kids nearing completion of their elementary and secondary schooling are showing any statistically significant improvement at all in the last half of those forty years. None.<br /><br />And that is what BOB leaves out. He is, dear readers, a very dishonest reporter of education testing facts. <br /><br />" ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4141297091660757452014-10-27T21:57:25.211-04:002014-10-27T21:57:25.211-04:00There is a reason why college professors grade ess...There is a reason why college professors grade essays and not actuaries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-6154320365153484172014-10-27T20:37:22.364-04:002014-10-27T20:37:22.364-04:00You mean your fingers and your mouth aren't yo...You mean your fingers and your mouth aren't your only lying body parts? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-49477998690078612542014-10-27T19:13:58.462-04:002014-10-27T19:13:58.462-04:006:54 can simply employ his/her clairvoyance to com...6:54 can simply employ his/her clairvoyance to come up with the answer, just as he/she knows what most people do and that "you know that". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-56207468054134509522014-10-27T19:06:07.841-04:002014-10-27T19:06:07.841-04:00Really? You got data about the number of Howler re...Really? You got data about the number of Howler readers left, and their reading/commenting habits?<br /><br />Love to see it. Been trying to find some, but TDH traffic has fallen so low, Alexa no longer tracks it.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76282581234891886652014-10-27T18:56:36.773-04:002014-10-27T18:56:36.773-04:00I really wonder about these tests. My father-in-la...I really wonder about these tests. My father-in-law was a decent, but not outstanding student. He never went to college. He worked as a draftsman. My wife found some old high school essays of his that didn't all get A's, circa 1927. To us, his essays looked worthy of a college student today. So, what should I believe: the NAEP tests or my lying eyes?David in Calnoreply@blogger.com