tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3169775281786369477..comments2024-03-28T17:53:29.993-04:00Comments on the daily howler: The Hungarian Revolution, 1956!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55325171324133904832022-03-03T19:10:12.603-05:002022-03-03T19:10:12.603-05:0012:18 he is drawing a line from the Hungarian resi...12:18 he is drawing a line from the Hungarian resistance that ended through violence, to Ukraine, because Somerby does not like the current methods of dealing with Putin (neither does Putin!), Somerby is a lost soul, it may be hard for you to see because you may be in the same boat. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59910467835363572832022-03-03T13:18:28.142-05:002022-03-03T13:18:28.142-05:00If it were to go nuclear, it would be by the Russi...If it were to go nuclear, it would be by the Russians since Ukraine agreed to give up their nuclear weapons when they declared their independence, in exchange for commitments made by Russia that their sovereignty would be respected.<br /><br />Yes, there has been an ongoing civil war on the eastern border, instigated from the get-go by the Putin regime. But don't worry, he was just concerned about the "ethnic Russians". That will be , to quote Hitler, his final demand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4767185141027508382022-03-03T12:25:34.787-05:002022-03-03T12:25:34.787-05:00anon 11:18 - nuclear war ok, if that's what it...anon 11:18 - nuclear war ok, if that's what it takes? mh - did you know that there has been an ongoing civil war in the Ukraine between the central government and breakaway Russian supported and pro-Russian rebels? AC/MAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55212049455571792302022-03-03T12:20:40.764-05:002022-03-03T12:20:40.764-05:00mh, you're being ridiculous.mh, you're being ridiculous.ac/manoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25079450526856160062022-03-03T12:18:13.228-05:002022-03-03T12:18:13.228-05:00AC/MA - anon 6:01 - where in this post does TDH wi...AC/MA - anon 6:01 - where in this post does TDH wish for, or even hint at wishing for, suffering or brutalityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-88346707510816439622022-03-03T11:18:36.989-05:002022-03-03T11:18:36.989-05:00If you decide ahead of time that nothing will work...If you decide ahead of time that nothing will work to deter a dictator, then of course, why try anything at all? Just let Hitler have Europe -- we don't live there. Meanwhile, members of the Russian army are refusing to fight, there are protests in the streets of Russia, oligarchs are having their yachts confiscated which may motivate them to complain to Putin, and no one is buying Russian oil. But David thinks nothing will help, so he argues that we stand by and do nothing? Or what? <br /><br />We live in a world where people have learned that there is strength in numbers when many people stand together, even when they are not themselves militarily powerful. We do not live in a world where dictators run roughshod over their people because the world stands by and lets them do it. The world David suggests exists with Russia. <br /><br />This kind of defeatism and unwillingness to stand by allies is what allowed Germany to absorb countries until the West worked up the backbone to stop him. I think David is expressing an America First rationale, but appeasement only leads to greater problems later on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30435118121157498982022-03-03T11:08:01.942-05:002022-03-03T11:08:01.942-05:00"but we wish our mother had taught us to make..."but we wish our mother had taught us to make a more forward-leaning effort to welcome this stranger from half a world away."<br /><br />Yes, no doubt, everything Somerby wishes were different in his life is attributable to his mother's failure.<br /><br />1. Why make a special effort to befriend a Hungarian refugee?<br />2. Why should his mother have to tell him to do such a thing?<br />3. What does it matter how well such a child adjusted to America, all those years ago? <br />4. What is the point of this sappy nostalgia about Hungarian refugees when Somerby wasn't even close enough to that child to decide to interact with him?<br /><br />The many refugees who come to our Southern border seeking asylum are similarly fleeing dangerous conditions in their own countries. Has Somerby ever given a thought to their needs or plight in all the time he has been writing here? Not that I can recall. Is refugee status different when it involves Hungarians than when it is a child coming from Central or South America? <br /><br />Somerby apparently wishes he had been nicer to his Hungarian classmate, but to what end? He cannot find it in his heart to recognize or understand what is happening to others who leave their homelands. Instead, he romanticizes the child he knew while dismissing the Ukrainian struggle as more war as usual and "sucks to be you, Ukrainian friends, but nothing to be done, nothing to talk about, just Putin doing his thing." <br /><br />Easy to see Somerby taking this same attitude toward what is happening in his own neighborhood in Baltimore, and shrugging away racism, concluding that it sucks to be black, but it was ever thus and will continue no matter what anyone does, so "sucks to be you, little black child." If he hadn't been preoccupied with his mother's failures, he might have done something to help them, in some vague way, 50 years ago. He no doubt wishes his mother had forced him to help them too, but she didn't, so she is crap, not Somerby as he muses beneath his pear tree and won't cooperate with his neighbor who wishes to rake up some leaves. It sounds like Somerby is ripe for assisted living, since he can't muster the strength to care about things he vaguely realizes he should care about -- if his mother had been the right sort of mother and not moved him to California.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37274548305611327182022-03-03T10:57:06.347-05:002022-03-03T10:57:06.347-05:00I had a Hungarian refugee child in my classes in M...I had a Hungarian refugee child in my classes in Middle School too. So what? <br /><br />This invasion of Ukraine is happening now and it is not provoked by any rebellion in Ukraine. It is Putin's cold-blooded attempt to take over a neighboring country. The parallels are to Hitler, not Hungary.<br /><br />This invasion is very real for the Ukrainian people. It is not some misty nostalgia for those who remember the tanks that imposed martial law on Hungary 70 years ago, in the aftermath of a different war.<br /><br />What is wrong with Somerby? You don't oppose a dictator with territorial ambitions by shrugging and saying that this sort of thing always happens, so who cares and why bother doing anything about it!<br /><br />At the very least, if Somerby does regard the Ukraine as a historical part of the Soviet Union, this should be described as civil war, since the Ukraine doesn't see itself that way at all. But this is nothing to shrug off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33686641641446561352022-03-02T23:11:43.116-05:002022-03-02T23:11:43.116-05:00mh -- I wish I agreed with you, but I see things m...mh -- I wish I agreed with you, but I see things more pessimistically. Since you posted, one Ukrainian city did surrender to the Russians. I don't think Europe, the US, and much of the world are really determined to stop Putin. They're committed to heavy sanctions, but if Russia is willing to suffer the sanctions, as Putin appears to be, then they will defeat Ukraine by means of their brutal bombing attacks.David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-87214805876432420722022-03-02T20:39:57.895-05:002022-03-02T20:39:57.895-05:00Did you know that Hitler took a beating in the lib...Did you know that Hitler took a beating in the liberal world back in 1942, but now liberals view Germany as a close ally?<br /><br />Just like with Hungary, those liberals sure are a fickle bunch, I tell you. <br /><br />It’s all anthropology now…er, what was that Comrade Putin?<br /><br />I imagine the Ukrainians don’t view everything as “all anthropology”. What a ridiculous and destructive idea. mhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937133532381705347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63999338559750279822022-03-02T20:34:37.082-05:002022-03-02T20:34:37.082-05:00“this is the cultural and historical framework wit...“this is the cultural and historical framework within which Putin is working as he prepares to put the Ukrainian resistance down.”<br /><br />Things seem to be different vis a vis Ukraine. Europe, the US, and much of the world seem determined to stop Putin. <br /><br />And I find it odd to say “Ukrainian resistance”. I believe pretty much the entire country refuses to accept an illegal and insane act of aggression by Putin. “Resistance” calls to mind something like the French resistance, except they were resisting the Vichy government, which had capitulated to Hitler. <br /><br />No part of the Ukraine government has capitulated. mhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937133532381705347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-88543383784095789072022-03-02T20:33:46.156-05:002022-03-02T20:33:46.156-05:00“Back then, the Hungarian revolutionaries were see...“Back then, the Hungarian revolutionaries were seen as heroes for their resistance to Soviet power. “<br /><br />“Were seen as…”. Were they heroes? Why can’t or won’t Somerby make this kind of judgment? Can anyone not see them as heroes, outside of Soviet apologists?mhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937133532381705347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26969419871801128312022-03-02T20:19:03.016-05:002022-03-02T20:19:03.016-05:00“Today, Hungary is taking a beating in liberal cir...“Today, Hungary is taking a beating in liberal circles for what are perceived to be the autocratic tendencies and behaviors of its prime minister, Viktor Orban. “<br /><br />Somerby, the “disinterested” observer cannot of course be bothered to form an opinion of Orban.<br /><br />Unlike people like Carlson and Dreher, who pay homage to him. <br /><br />And, on a similar note, Hitler was seen as a genocidal maniac. mhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937133532381705347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-90775539258152429642022-03-02T20:00:12.766-05:002022-03-02T20:00:12.766-05:00I remember when they put military recruiters in my...I remember when they put military recruiters in my public school. They also put them up in the impoverished part of town, although they recruit pretty well with relatives of existing members too. <br /><br />In other words, here was an institution that was supposed to be about expanding your mind telling you that you also have the option of being a grunt for hire.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65798889530157493712022-03-02T18:01:37.550-05:002022-03-02T18:01:37.550-05:00Somerby apparently wishing for some brutality to a...Somerby apparently wishing for some brutality to attenuate the effective sanctions and worldwide ostracizing of Putin and his cronies.<br /><br />Turns out those sanctions Trump refused to enforce were significant, thus the importance of getting him elected, from Putin's pov. <br /><br />Trump and his supporters - his voters and his fellow autocratic-minded leaders, know only hate, understand only hate, spew hate like the rest of us breathe. Frankly, it is sad, very sad. That's what people are saying. But not Somerby, he'd rather wish for suffering to avoid eating crow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67342689111004732722022-03-02T16:09:43.513-05:002022-03-02T16:09:43.513-05:00Actually, as we remember, the 1956 Hungarian upris...Actually, as we remember, the 1956 Hungarian uprising was more like a Hungarian civil war. Pro-western students and the professional classes vs Hungarian communists, mostly the working class. And then the Warsaw pact troops came and put an end to it. <br /><br />And, you're right, dear Bob: the current Ukrainian troubles are somewhat similar. It started as a civil war, with the pro-western clique allied with ethnocentric nationalists seizing power by a coup in 2014. Trying, for 8 years now, to subdue coal-mining regions in the east. And now the tables have turned. We'll see what happens. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com