tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3224799276382342798..comments2024-03-28T14:33:44.704-04:00Comments on the daily howler: August interlude: What we pondered in southernmost Maine!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12227563399750083132014-08-11T18:10:11.108-04:002014-08-11T18:10:11.108-04:00I saw the Exorsist. In Boston. I threw beads. M...I saw the Exorsist. In Boston. I threw beads. My date blew beets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82198953097686406412014-08-11T13:16:16.097-04:002014-08-11T13:16:16.097-04:00The Soviet papers were hardly reliable. Yes, spook...The Soviet papers were hardly reliable. Yes, spooks never lie, or trump themselves up for their bosses.<br /><br />I love how we're supposed to think that the Soviets were a devious foe-- and then expected to take their private documents at face value.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83912991460727882242014-08-11T13:13:47.187-04:002014-08-11T13:13:47.187-04:00He also has an overt revisionist agenda about the ...He also has an overt revisionist agenda about the 60s and 70s, which I think gets him into trouble. He's intent on proving that the Right was much more powerful and effective than it really was, and that most Americans were little more than its willing stooges. If only life had been that simple back then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9920805931832233272014-08-11T13:04:41.731-04:002014-08-11T13:04:41.731-04:00The evidence against Bush was not bogus-- the docu...The evidence against Bush was not bogus-- the documents were merely icing on the cake. All of the so-called objections to them were disproved. Doesn't anyone else remember those little balls on the IBM Selectrics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19209115930704978282014-08-11T13:02:05.185-04:002014-08-11T13:02:05.185-04:00It's not true-- I was there back then as well....It's not true-- I was there back then as well. Much of the hysteria was media manufactured, too.<br /><br />Perlstein's very unreliable about the 73-76 time period. His problem is that he relies too much on the inadequate journalism of the time. That era btw was pretty exciting-- it wasn't the neurosis-fest that P makes it out to be. Things actually seemed to be getting better, and you could feel it in the air. <br /><br />Such a description though does interfere with P's revisionism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7597171604136742302014-08-11T12:54:44.884-04:002014-08-11T12:54:44.884-04:00Perlstein's a professional 60s and 70s revisio...Perlstein's a professional 60s and 70s revisionist, and so he has to be watched carefully. He has an agenda there, as outlined in his old Lingua Franca piece. He thinks the Left back then was a bunch of idiots, and that most of the history about the period has been little more than foolish sentimentalizing. Alexander Cockburn btw did a great takedown of him in his negative review of Nixonland.<br /><br />In fact, wasn't it Perlstein a few years ago who claimed that audience members of 'All in the Family' would cheer Archie Bunker when he'd make his racist jokes and comments?<br /><br />Which was not the case-- especially in LA. The most they'd do is clap in hilarity at how funny and outrageous they were. Perlstein's aim was to show that the Left back then was under the foolish impression that the "Silent Majority" was not right wing.<br /><br />Whatever, I have a big problem with his depiction of the Bicentennial. None of his anecdotes bear any resemblance to what I saw at the time. There was no preview of the Reaganesque 'Morning in America' time, or need to adopt right-wing frameworks. Quite the opposite.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18726816398890085552014-08-11T10:58:42.895-04:002014-08-11T10:58:42.895-04:00Let us be fair to BOB @ 7:54. Those words (and nu...Let us be fair to BOB @ 7:54. Those words (and numbers) were posted on January 11, 2014. They are simply a slight change from this work published a few weeks earlier:<br /><br /><strong>Rachel Maddow is a nightmare!</strong><br /><br /> <br />MONDAY, DECEMBER 16, 2013<br /><br />"Rachel Maddow is Fox: By now, there can be little doubt. Rachel Maddow is an official party-line, partisan hack. <br /><br />She’ll fill your head full of stupid shazam.<br /><br />----------<br /><br />Losers, guess what? The volume of traffic on the bridge has nothing to do with this story. Traffic across the bridge was not affected, only access to the bridge from the town of Fort Lee."<br /><br />Slowing ten million cars access to a single lane is a winner! Watching the clown shoe lady is a loser! Among those who see things others can't, credibility across the blog was not affected.ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84275013317334147482014-08-11T08:02:32.866-04:002014-08-11T08:02:32.866-04:00And to Gore's credit, "Bush went AWOL&quo...And to Gore's credit, "Bush went AWOL" wasn't a big issue because unlike the swiftboating of Kerry, he refused to do the Rovian thing -- find a couple of proxies unconnected to himself or the campaign to shout it daily from the rooftops while Gore could pretend to remain above the fray.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61168806180635135322014-08-11T07:54:21.928-04:002014-08-11T07:54:21.928-04:00But let's be fair here. Bob didn't pull &q...But let's be fair here. Bob didn't pull "Ten million cars" out of his nether regions. He actually took some initiative to look it up, and discovered that 10 million was the number of cars that cross that bridge in both directions ANNUALLY. <br /><br />Then he committed the sin that he would have been all over one of his favorite targets for, taking that annual traffic count figure and telling his rubes that that's the number of cars attempting to cross the bridge one way during a single morning rush hour. Then he further mind-reads the motorists who cross that bridge every day.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18341841116243465022014-08-10T21:37:37.238-04:002014-08-10T21:37:37.238-04:00"That strikes us as an odd thing to say."..."That strikes us as an odd thing to say." Would it be better to say Liberals whom Bob doesn't like, in their fight against the right wing, did not take the intiative in creating exxageration?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91945361001460030422014-08-10T19:16:03.800-04:002014-08-10T19:16:03.800-04:00Is you saying emergency room visits did skyrocket?...Is you saying emergency room visits did skyrocket? You think that's true? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32475277312842066242014-08-10T19:13:52.799-04:002014-08-10T19:13:52.799-04:00"Pick on". What you means by "pick ..."Pick on". What you means by "pick on". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65533569461706016922014-08-10T16:41:50.760-04:002014-08-10T16:41:50.760-04:00At its heart this is a childish post. Liberals who...At its heart this is a childish post. Liberals whom Bob doesn't like did not invent exaggeration a few years ago in order to fight the right wing.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24388998456069319742014-08-10T15:29:01.631-04:002014-08-10T15:29:01.631-04:00OMB: Harmless Hyperbole vs. Novelizing with the O...OMB: Harmless Hyperbole vs. Novelizing with the OTB <br /><br />Obvious hyperbole indeed. If he had invented a real number, that might be novelization. Let's look at an example of the latter. This is from a piece entitled: <br /><br /><strong>Question: Could the mess in Fort Lee, New Jersey have been a bungled attempt at a study?</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>"North toward home—driving up I-95:</strong> Interstate 95 runs north and south through the major cities of the eastern seaboard. Heading northbound through New Jersey and toward New York City, I-95 takes you over the GW Bridge......<br /><br />You crawl along in traffic for miles, cursing your fate and wondering if you’ll ever get to the bridge. When you finally see the bridge, you also see those now-famous access lanes from Fort Lee. <br /><br /><strong>Ten million cars from those access lanes crawl in front of you into the flow,</strong> slowing your approach from the south. Having cursed your overall fate for miles, you now start cursing those drivers."<br /><br />As you can see, if your meme is that someone you will later call "The Unreliable Wildstein" was doing something good that the nasty novelizers in the media have disappeared to fit their meme, then you can invent millions upon millions of non existent cars to support yours! ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43859867815665563572014-08-10T15:12:07.890-04:002014-08-10T15:12:07.890-04:00Anon. @ 2:01 is right, and, like poor Al Gore, Ano...Anon. @ 2:01 is right, and, like poor Al Gore, Anon. @ 7:04 is partly right. <br /><br />“my current state of consciousness...<strong>is</strong> just a feature of my brain at the present time” is a direct copy....the first time BOB used it near the beginning of the post.<br /><br />But near the end the same thought is rephrased as "<strong>is</strong> “my current state of consciousness... just a feature of my brain at the present time?” The second time the little verb has moved.<br /><br />Does that change its meaning? We don't know. We only know BOB did it and he always has His reasons. We doubt they are Clintonian.<br /><br />KZoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-3324424676560810002014-08-10T15:07:12.414-04:002014-08-10T15:07:12.414-04:00If nothing else "skyrocketed" is obvious...If nothing else "skyrocketed" is obvious hyperbole. I thought Perlstein's Nixonland was outstanding. It did an excellent job describing the political and cultural backlash in the immediate wake of the era's landmark civil rights successes. Also as a continuing theme, examples of how liberal stands on cultural issues can foment mainstream political backlash. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55632796953635633362014-08-10T14:58:52.341-04:002014-08-10T14:58:52.341-04:00Excellent work Giuseppe! You now take us to anoth...Excellent work Giuseppe! You now take us to another example of BOB's Novelization of this tale 'based on a true story.' According to the version you cite, written almost six months after the version we cited in the comment above, we find this about the birth of the "Love Story" story.<br /><br />"According to Time, Gore said that Segal "used Al and Tipper as models for the uptight preppy and his free-spirited girlfriend in Love Story." <strong>So was born the silly story</strong> that has—incredibly and foolishly—helped define presidential politics over the course of the past fourteen months."<br /><br />So what Maureen "invented" in the New York Times was "born" in Time magazine in its telling less than half a year later. <br /><br />Of course there is more fun in both the BOB post we cited and the one you cited. But we will save that, perhaps for later.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30280268733015768562014-08-10T14:08:14.430-04:002014-08-10T14:08:14.430-04:00The evidence against Bush was bogus. That's en...The evidence against Bush was bogus. That's enough to make you doubt the accusation, but it's not enough to prove that it's false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18258032210222567412014-08-10T14:05:30.931-04:002014-08-10T14:05:30.931-04:00Innocent people were falsely accused. That doesn&#...Innocent people were falsely accused. That doesn't show that guilty people weren't truly accused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30878535562319594622014-08-10T14:04:33.479-04:002014-08-10T14:04:33.479-04:00Hiss was convicted of perjury, not espionage. How ...Hiss was convicted of perjury, not espionage. How do you know his trial was fair?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-86503923703664643892014-08-10T14:01:38.694-04:002014-08-10T14:01:38.694-04:003:34 copied and pasted. No word was changed. The w...3:34 copied and pasted. No word was changed. The whole sentence, with ellipsis, was moved intact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9962033866168934612014-08-10T13:46:15.275-04:002014-08-10T13:46:15.275-04:00From The Daily Howler, 25 May 2000:
Had Segal use...From The Daily Howler, 25 May 2000:<br />Had Segal used the Gores as models? Partly yes and partly no, but Gore hadn't made the claim to begin with. Segal told Henneberger that Gore had been one of two models for the Oliver Barrett part (Jones had been the other model), but Tipper had not figured in the characterization of Barrett's girl friend, Jenny Cavilleri. Had the story ended there—with Gore half right and Gore half wrong—it would be incredible to think that this pointless event could have gotten ten seconds attention. But in fact, Tumulty and Berke told Henneberger that Time had slightly misstated what Gore had said. What had Gore actually told the scribes?<br />http://www.dailyhowler.com/h052500_1.shtmlGiuseppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03418801372998968620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-69402750409772792092014-08-10T13:41:27.429-04:002014-08-10T13:41:27.429-04:00How about the ridiculous exxageration that anythin...How about the ridiculous exxageration that anything Steve Donoghue wrote "helped ignite" anything other than BOB's post?<br /><br />ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78315803853340465752014-08-10T13:35:56.045-04:002014-08-10T13:35:56.045-04:00Well, Anonymous @ 11:15 it is a good thing you cho...Well, Anonymous @ 11:15 it is a good thing you chose the "essence" to have been true. <br /><br />It is hard to grasp how an election was decided on the two myths cited, since the Love Story myth and the National Guard myth pertained to two candidates who opposed each other. Unless you hold to the theory that belief in both myths caused enough people to votes for Nader in both Florida and New Hampshire. That latter psosibility has not, as we all say, been journalistically disproven, so DinC may not be just acting in good faith, but right!KZoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9364410312169267282014-08-10T13:25:34.430-04:002014-08-10T13:25:34.430-04:00OMB ( Oh, for a chance to discuss Novelization &am...OMB ( Oh, for a chance to discuss Novelization & the OTB)<br /><br /><br />Segal did not corroborate that Gore and his Harvard roomate "were indeed the models..." Gore did not mention Jones was a model for "Ollie" Barrett IV. But, since this post alleges novelization by Rick Perlstein, it might be fun to discuss others who have "novelized" events to fit their meme.<br /><br />Unless otherwise challenged, we will simply state as fact that throughout his tale of "The War on Gore" very few others saw or tell tales about, "new kid" war correspondent BOB has novelized like a bodice-ripper contract scribbler over the last fifteen years.<br /><br />We begin with Part 2 of BOB's a first series on the topic, back in 1999. We chose it because of the ironic choice of a verb by the OTB in this early telling.<br /><br />"The Love Story nonsense began in late 1997—<strong>invented by a Maureen Dowd column</strong>—and in the aftermath of that piece, Melinda Henneberger wrote a lengthy story on the topic for the Sunday New York Times (12/14/97). No one has ever disputed the facts she reported; pundits have simply preferred to ignore them." OTB 12/6/99<br /><br />http://www.dailyhowler.com/h120699_1.shtml<br /><br />What, dear readers, do we presume BOB meant when he said Maureen was the one, through a column, who "invented" the Love Story "nonsense"? Did she take the initiative in creating<br />the "Al Gore was Segal's inspiration"? Or does BOB<br />mean the "nonsense" part was Dowd's invention? <br /><br />Be careful which answer you choose dear reader. Neither leads to a pleasant place...if you hold OTB high in your esteem. ZKoDnoreply@blogger.com