tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3620443669609973428..comments2024-03-29T00:25:24.008-04:00Comments on the daily howler: THE ROLE OF THE GAPS: In fourth grade!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-80813399958994148262014-06-12T01:30:26.813-04:002014-06-12T01:30:26.813-04:00Anonymous @10:57P,
I'm not trying to help TDH...Anonymous @10:57P,<br /><br />I'm not trying to help TDH, and I'm not trying to hurt him. Your namesake at 11:58A has told himself and us a story that TDH has portrayed Gates as a billionaire trying to force his own crackpot idea (i.e., common core) on pubic education. This isn't so, and to find that out, the two of you need only go back and read what TDH has written. Why do you think I put quotation marks around "the perfect mark" and "got conned"? In other words, this is not a matter of believing what words TDH has written. It's actually what he wrote.<br /><br />Now you've extended the story: you complain that I've made out that the Gates foundation is part of a conspiracy (and a "grand" one at that). I'm not (and certainly TDH isn't). All of this is right out in the open. TDH even praises Layton for describing how everyone up and down the political spectrum is taking the "swag."<br /><br />There's no charge (neither mine nor TDH's) that Bill and Melinda are demons who themselves conjured up the mephitic incantations called "Common Core" and who funded a grand conspiracy to force it upon public schools. You've made this up. TDH thinks that Gates knows nothing about public schools, and that he got conned into spending his money to push a flawed program.<br /><br />Now he's certainly right that Gates knows nothing from experience about public schools. And maybe TDH is right or maybe he doesn't have a single clue when he talks about the flaws in the Common Core.<br /><br />If you want to explain this cluelessness, I, for one, would be happy to listen. For your made-up stories, not so much.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52252404480798715492014-06-12T00:15:56.863-04:002014-06-12T00:15:56.863-04:00Who said anything about Common Core? You cannot h...Who said anything about Common Core? You cannot have a standard without a test of some sort to meaure whether it has or has not been met. This is true when determing whether a piece of lumber meets a quality standard or a fourth grader meets a geometry standard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-81302213583169058832014-06-11T23:47:41.223-04:002014-06-11T23:47:41.223-04:00We applaud BOB for attempting to answser the first...We applaud BOB for attempting to answser the first question in his Supplemental post. In our view he did not, but your results may equivocate. Nobody has even taken on the second. Did nobody out there suffer through the series on the PISA cult?<br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67234144860641359312014-06-11T23:16:41.488-04:002014-06-11T23:16:41.488-04:00My point precisely.My point precisely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57968362663128429992014-06-11T22:57:05.879-04:002014-06-11T22:57:05.879-04:00Deadrat, you've made a lot of feeble attempts ...Deadrat, you've made a lot of feeble attempts to re-write Somerby to deny that he doesn't have a single clue of what he is talking about.<br /><br />But "TDH . . . makes Gates out to be a rube, "the perfect mark," who "got conned" by educationists" takes the cake.<br /><br />And if you truly believe that is what Somerby is saying, then you aren't helping him. In fact, you've just made him look even more ignorant and that is indeed a high bar to clear.<br /><br />Whatever demon you need to turn Bill and Melinda Gates into to suit your flailing argument of a grand conspiracy to force uniform standards upon our nation's schools, making them out to be Ma and Pa Kettle getting fleeced by the city slickers is really laughable.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-90264383910893506262014-06-11T22:48:45.837-04:002014-06-11T22:48:45.837-04:00No, Common Core doesn't mandate testing, or ho...No, Common Core doesn't mandate testing, or how it is done. No Child Left Behind did that.<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91991613356532271712014-06-11T20:16:41.613-04:002014-06-11T20:16:41.613-04:00If you cannot answer our questions, u.l. it is yo...If you cannot answer our questions, u.l. it is you who display ingorance, not ourselves.<br /><br />As for BOB being the only one to address the question of achievement gaps, that is fatuous nonsense. <br /><br />If you mean he is the only one asking what do tougher standards do to erase the existing gaps, you may be right. Because the question is so preposterous on its face only a complete idiot would ask it.<br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36105081599359859442014-06-11T20:06:23.870-04:002014-06-11T20:06:23.870-04:00Isn't the mandatory test a standard?Isn't the mandatory test a standard?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46657753440677978592014-06-11T19:18:18.264-04:002014-06-11T19:18:18.264-04:00"How do we know there are gaps without a stan..."How do we know there are gaps without a standard?"<br /><br />By looking at the available evidence? Mandatory testing has been done in the states (most states? all states?) for a long time now. There is plenty of evidence of the gap. You don't need a national standard to see it.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10719212263455435772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89019889139624396722014-06-11T19:12:22.904-04:002014-06-11T19:12:22.904-04:00"What is truly bullshit excuse for doing noth..."What is truly bullshit excuse for doing nothing is Somerby's utterly ignorant out of hand dismissal of Common Core -- or setting any standards at all for the skills each child should achieve at the end of each grade level."<br /><br />He doesn't dismiss it out of hand. He simply wondered aloud if it could possibly achieve its lofty goals in the way it was presented. Clearly, it can't.<br /><br />I went to grade school in the 1970's and early 80's, and we had these things called "report cards." I don't know if you had them at your school, but we got them every 6 weeks and had to take them home for our parents to sign. So even then, in the days before widespread mandatory testing, we had "standards to measure" our progress by. Not having a national standard doesn't mean having no standards at all. And "voluntary" national standards is the first step towards mandatory ones, you should know that. School districts that don't adopt the "voluntary" standards will face pressure from their parents' groups to justify why they haven't adopted them, especially if they are higher standards ("why aren't you teaching our kids up to these higher standards???" "Umm, well, you see...your kids are too dumb..." uh huh...).Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10719212263455435772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-86055050424808460432014-06-11T19:02:58.987-04:002014-06-11T19:02:58.987-04:00Here's some more from Layton's story:
<...Here's some more from Layton's story:<br /><br /><quote><br />The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation didn’t just bankroll the development of what became known as the Common Core State Standards. With more than $200 million, the foundation also built political support across the country, persuading state governments to make systemic and costly changes.<br /></quote><br /><br />TDH quotes Layton as saying that Gates paid to make national standards happen, from actually writing standards to smoothing the political road to their adoption. Are you going to quibble now about whether Gates' actions constitute creation and sponsorship?<br /><br />Who is it that thinks that the idea of standards sprung from Gates' skull? It's not TDH; it's not Layton; it's not Gates. The first quotes the second who quotes the last as seeing himself "investing" in such "new ideas."<br /><br />The idea that TDH thinks Gates is a crackpot who cooked up a crazy idea and backed it with his billions to force everyone to adopt it? That one belongs to you, not TDH, who makes Gates out to be a rube, "the perfect mark," who "got conned" by educationists.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59156960535847935022014-06-11T18:58:01.955-04:002014-06-11T18:58:01.955-04:00"Is that idea in the Common Core standards?&q..."Is that idea in the Common Core standards?"<br /><br />How could it be? They're just a bunch of benchmarks, not a prescription for attaining them. Achieving those benchmarks is left as an exercise for the implementers.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10719212263455435772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63825159390113432722014-06-11T18:40:14.873-04:002014-06-11T18:40:14.873-04:00No, UL. What is truly bullshit excuse for doing no...No, UL. What is truly bullshit excuse for doing nothing is Somerby's utterly ignorant out of hand dismissal of Common Core -- or setting any standards at all for the skills each child should achieve at the end of each grade level.<br /><br />My God, man, how can you expect to know if kids are learning anything if you have no standards to measure them by?<br /><br />Here's another thing you don't quite get. Common Core hasn't been mandated. It is strictly voluntary. You can adopt them or not. You can adopt them, then opt out. <br /><br />And did it ever occur to you that Diane Ravitch might be full of bullshit, too? Or do you seldom question anything you read?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-52011229647495056012014-06-11T18:36:13.629-04:002014-06-11T18:36:13.629-04:00Anonymous @6:29P, another troll left behind.Anonymous @6:29P, another troll left behind.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26947287067702486612014-06-11T18:32:18.976-04:002014-06-11T18:32:18.976-04:00I am also highly dubious of his claim that fourth-...<i>I am also highly dubious of his claim that fourth-graders in Baltimore were using social studies textbooks written for eighth-graders.</i><br /><br />TDH did not claim that fourth-graders in Baltimore had eighth-grade text books. He wrote that a new curriculum <i>recommended</i> a list of books (the entirety of which, "[n]o school could possibly afford…."). <br /><br />And no, we don't know who was in charge of deciding which text books actually made it into the classroom. TDH says that one Sam Banks decided on a list of recommended books that accompanied the new curriculum.<br /><br />And no, there's no evidence that Sam Banks was stupid. But TDH notes that the man had never taught elementary school and likely had little idea about the gaps in his schools. This is called ignorance, perhaps even culpable ignorance.<br /><br />TDH doesn't say how he measured readability back in the day. Now you can cut and paste text into online tools, like the one at https://readability-score.com/, which scores this blog entry at just shy of a 9th grade level. Given your comment, I am highly dubious that you're reading at TDH blog level. But at least you're highly dubious. I hope this doesn't lead to alienation and despair.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91929463581205872022014-06-11T18:29:57.293-04:002014-06-11T18:29:57.293-04:00Only Bob Somerby is "pursuing" Common Co...Only Bob Somerby is "pursuing" Common Core?<br /><br />Are you joking? You must be. Either that, or you don't read very many stories about education.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20839395347196208672014-06-11T18:21:46.697-04:002014-06-11T18:21:46.697-04:00What isn't there?What isn't there?Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09520998225031485048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53977877186397513682014-06-11T17:27:12.535-04:002014-06-11T17:27:12.535-04:00KZ, you are really looking stupid now. This is an ...KZ, you are really looking stupid now. This is an important topic that basically only The Howler is pursuing. You should have some filter that will tell you to be clever and when to shut up. urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44350409940136117722014-06-11T17:23:53.118-04:002014-06-11T17:23:53.118-04:00". . . why, until we have uniform standards a...". . . why, until we have uniform standards and expectations, any other attempt to solve the achievement gap will be futile."<br /><br />This is a bullshit excuse for not even trying, 12:58. The problem presented by "the gaps" is so complex that you throw the kitchen sink at it, including, as I think the Howler will suggest, materials with grade-level or near grade-level concepts written at lower reading levels, rather than making students hate education even more by holding them in lower grades with younger kids or conceding little accomplishment with promotion even though the materials could hardly be read. That, of course, means more money; if we perceive this to be a matter of national importance, then the Federal Government should help the states fund it. <br /><br />There may be many things that can be done without formal national standards, which we have managed to live without for 150 years or so. In fact, there are informal national standards because states learn and borrow from each other, have long used national tests,use materials published nationally, and, generally, do not differ much in their standards even if they may have been written locally. <br /><br />Diane Ravitch has made a telling point that, while many of them seem perfectly acceptable, Common Core as national standards was not subjected to the formal vetting process that national and standards organizations require. Formalized national standards may well have valuable aspects, and Somerby has expressly recognized that, but as a matter of pure logic there is nothing they do to address the gaps. This is an important point that I have seen only on this blog.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36581049163131515942014-06-11T14:47:26.488-04:002014-06-11T14:47:26.488-04:00"According to the Common Core, all kids shoul..."According to the Common Core, all kids should get taught the same sixth-grade math—<strong>but we need to make it harder!</strong> "<br /><br />According to Bob Somerby you can attribute things to Common Core<br />that aren't there and <strong>your readers will barely take notice!</strong><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23386403828887465562014-06-11T14:39:32.349-04:002014-06-11T14:39:32.349-04:00A good rap with a ruler on the thumbs beats a very...A good rap with a ruler on the thumbs beats a very rough rule of thumb, nun might say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54962091713819127642014-06-11T14:34:34.417-04:002014-06-11T14:34:34.417-04:00One year, we conducted a study of the “readability...<i>One year, we conducted a study of the “readability” of the various books in the city’s social studies and science curricula. </i><br /><br />The original "readability" measures were devised by Rudolf Flesch, who gained fame in 1955 by writing, "Why Johnny Can't Read.' This book argued that phonics is a better way to teach reading than the whole word method. This debate is still going on, as you can see from the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/review/R3AXA2BZ5BI9RI/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R3AXA2BZ5BI9RI" rel="nofollow"> reviews and comments attached to Flesch's book, "Why Johnny Still Can't Read: A New Look at the Scandal of Our Schools."</a> <br /><br />I think using the best method of teaching is more important than a lot of other things, such as Common Core, School Lunch, racial breakdown, etc. I am not convinced that the Educational Establishment does an effective job of selecting the best teaching approach.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72772688068619244162014-06-11T14:10:56.574-04:002014-06-11T14:10:56.574-04:00Yes Bill Gates and Michael Dell proved that by dro...Yes Bill Gates and Michael Dell proved that by dropping out of college. Look were all his hard work getting a degree from Harvard got Somerby compared to those scofflaws.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19196464085842380322014-06-11T14:08:43.171-04:002014-06-11T14:08:43.171-04:00@ 12:50 Yesterrday Somerby covered a piece called...@ 12:50 Yesterrday Somerby covered a piece called "The Great Divide." For some reason or other Somerby barely touched upon solutions suggested in that article, which included taking students who are behind peers their own age and putting them in classes aimed at children performing at their grade level. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54402987838936639752014-06-11T14:04:57.701-04:002014-06-11T14:04:57.701-04:00There is no consequence for failure at home, in th...There is no consequence for failure at home, in the neighborhood, or in society so none of these solutions will work. Waste of effort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com