tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post363987178648344088..comments2024-03-19T07:13:54.443-04:00Comments on the daily howler: NAEP VERSUS NEWT: A familiar old story!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12171442066984621682012-01-08T14:10:33.815-05:002012-01-08T14:10:33.815-05:00GET OgaincompriseALLS “thidesign all i ninitialits...GET OgaincompriseALLS “thidesign all i ninitialits greaenormous“big businesswithcome to passt on behalf ofsoapy <br />reseasy” GET YOUR BALLS NOW!<br /><a href="http://www.ncaservices.com" rel="nofollow">janitorial</a><br /><a href="http://www.ncaservices.com" rel="nofollow">for janitorial services</a><br /><a href="http://www.ncaservices.com" rel="nofollow">janitorial cleaning</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84112528538163479512011-12-15T05:34:52.087-05:002011-12-15T05:34:52.087-05:00@UL, I have no *meaningful* way to define "to...@UL, I have no *meaningful* way to define "to their true intentions". It seems to me to be an extremely flexible phrase, open to numerous, utilitarian, interpretations. <br /><br />And to me the question is less whether they are liberal or conservative--and speak of flexible phrases--the question rather is, did you do, and do you do, research about what the hell you opining on?jonstnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41737870554334159192011-12-14T22:51:41.419-05:002011-12-14T22:51:41.419-05:00But what basis do you have to conclude liberals ha...But what basis do you have to conclude liberals have good intentions when they put forward the "everyone in the hood is a drug dealer and doesn't work" story but when conservatives do it they are lying racists?<br /><br />I sort of agree with you that Jay Z and Gates may have good intentions. (I am now more cynical than I once was so I'm not so sure they do have good intentions.)<br /><br />But I see almost no difference between white liberal Democrats (like Clinton) and Republicans like Gingrich that both use the "no hard workers in the hood" story. Sure, most Republicans are going to be more overtly "racist" by saying thins like "crime in these hoods is a direct reflection of the negative character of these communities" while the Democrats won't say that.<br /><br />But the Democrats and Republicans agree on the basic Jim Crow type policies like the drug war and neoliberal austerity. It's the policies that matter. What does it matter if the Democrats use politically correct language and black faces to pursue the same policies as the Republicans?Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26914490678063488262011-12-14T21:40:58.063-05:002011-12-14T21:40:58.063-05:00Nobody should be immune from being taken down a pe...Nobody should be immune from being taken down a peg when they say stupid things, but if no liberals are allowed to be ambitious, career climbing and preening -- we'll reserve on "corporate" -- there will be no liberals expressing any part of a liberal point of view on any issue. By the same token, if no President is allowed to be ambitious, career climbing and preening, and a nearly clinical narcissist at that, we will nave no President. <br /><br />However, for all their faults, I am not willing to conclude most of them are not trying their best to be true to themselves while pursuing their ambitions.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-10601160137505859472011-12-14T17:35:25.728-05:002011-12-14T17:35:25.728-05:00Walter....I think Bob is, increasingly, less "...Walter....I think Bob is, increasingly, less "adversarial to traditional power" than he once was. And than you make out. I think that is my point.<br /><br />Yes, many of Bob's attacks are legit, and indeed,at times, eloquent and wise. Especially on educational matters. But lately he seems to be going after, admittedly, ambitious, career climbing, corporate,preening, air heads. You think that is going after traditional power...fine. And he is doing it in a manner much like the very people he is going after. That's the way I see it. And sorry for posting as Anonymous. I was in a hurry.jonstnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39475029181375970582011-12-14T16:54:14.297-05:002011-12-14T16:54:14.297-05:00Anonymous,
Urban Legend claims that many of Bob&#...Anonymous,<br /><br />Urban Legend claims that many of Bob's attacks are legitimate but this one misses the mark. <br /><br />Bob is the underdog and has less "pop" in his balloon. The corrupted media and political system has the biggest balloon to pop. <br /><br />One is going to occasionally be left hanging out there when one is adversarial to traditional power. At least Bob has a comment section for people to refine the arguments as Ubran Legend has done.Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8180182368630198442011-12-14T16:27:39.015-05:002011-12-14T16:27:39.015-05:00Urban Legend...when you were done writing your com...Urban Legend...when you were done writing your comment did you, by any chance, hear a big blown up balloon of an ego go 'POP!'? Well done UL...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47052409527885061512011-12-14T15:37:41.457-05:002011-12-14T15:37:41.457-05:00Bob, you have been lambasting clueless professors ...Bob, you have been lambasting clueless professors for several weeks. <br /><br />Should you be citing Henry Louis Gates as a credible witness?<br /><br />Here's Gates to his own daughter: “Well, the police report was an act of pure fiction. One designed to protect him, Sgt. Crowley, from unethical behavior. I was astonished at the audacity of the lies in the police report, and almost the whole thing from start to finish was just pure fabrication. So yes, I felt violated all over again.”<br /><br />Well, a police report of pure fiction is not only unethical, it 's a felony.<br /><br />But hey, let's have beer together, as long as the President of the United States is buying, and sit down in the White house and laugh the whole thing off. After all, there was no harm done, was there?gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61820096272122334682011-12-14T15:30:01.543-05:002011-12-14T15:30:01.543-05:00Urban Legend-- well said all the way around.
I ag...Urban Legend-- well said all the way around.<br /><br />I agree with Bob that "professional liberal" critique of Gingrich's comment has been extremely lame, but I agree with you whole-heartedly that it was unusually offensive and rancid, even for Gingrich, for the reasons you lay out very well.gyrfalconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89502990142672206072011-12-14T14:22:19.392-05:002011-12-14T14:22:19.392-05:00Gingrich said, quote: “Really poor children in rea...Gingrich said, quote: “Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works. So literally, they have no habit of showing up on Monday. They have no habit of staying all day. They have no habit of I do this and you give me cash - unless it's illegal.”<br /><br />He didn't say “many poor children” or “too many poor children.” He said “really poor children.” He said that, “literally,” these really poor children – that is, “they,” which means all of them if we are truly going to be literal -- “have no habit of showing up on Monday.” He didn't say these children have “weak” or “poorly formed” work habits, he said “no habits,” and he didn't say there were “too few adults who work,” but “nobody around them who works.” If you can't see the profound difference between what this rich white person said – a rich white person who has less than a stellar reputation for caring about the black community in general who had no problem identifying them – and what Gates or Jay-Z said, you really have a problem. <br /><br />The fact that Gingrich's blatant and grossly insulting generalization is derived from but distorts a serious theme being discussed by Gates and Jay-Z does not save it from the completely legitimate outrage it received – especially when it is combined with Gingrich's own (and his party's) political “Southern-strategy” history and his personal circumstances. Adding to the basis for legitimate outrage by liberals, pseudo or genuine, is Gingrich's insult to unions generally and his cavalier willingness to destroy the livelihoods of an entire segment of relatively low-income workers, some of whom probably do serve as the positive role models Gingrich thinks are completely absent in those communities.<br /><br />I know, I know, the narrative is everything – in the instant case the adopted narrative that all liberals who have broken through obscurity to achieve a national platform are phony “pseudo-liberals” who don't give a crap about poor black children. If it takes defending an outrageous and grossly racist generalization by a Newt Gingrich to advance the Howler's daily narrative, which is always clothed in the guise of attacking the narratives of others, so be it. <br /><br />Many of those attacks on or challenges to other liberals are quite legitimate. The history of the War on Gore and major-media reporting on education have been invaluable. The fact that they too often drip with ad hominem insult unfortunately undermines their legitimacy.urban legendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14417150041345061352011-12-14T14:11:37.961-05:002011-12-14T14:11:37.961-05:00Tireless self-promoting sage that he is, Gates rem...Tireless self-promoting sage that he is, Gates remains an unattractive figure, though it's also true that the Ivy League is full of such mediocrities, the vast majority of them white.<br /><br />In any case, there IS an obvious between his comments and Gingrich's, even forgetting the legitimate question of Gingrich's motives. The discussion didn't begin and end with the age-old "lack of role models" line. Gingrich had a great deal more to say, all of it ludicrous.<br /><br />In Bob's tireless search for equivalence, he's frequently lead to these absurdities. Yeah, our public discourse is crap and it's unfortunate that corporate America won't hire thoughtful liberal talk-show hosts. But what does this discussion have to do with anything of consequence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67201327214269808642011-12-14T13:27:41.649-05:002011-12-14T13:27:41.649-05:00Here's Lowkey on Jay Z, Obama and Bush: http:/...Here's Lowkey on Jay Z, Obama and Bush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK_8fDiRqb0<br /><br />And here's my favorite Lowkey song, Obama Nation Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB-vYuYhdSEWalter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76031640400218276252011-12-14T13:22:55.522-05:002011-12-14T13:22:55.522-05:00And why is Clinton not relevant?
I'm having f...And why is Clinton not relevant?<br /><br />I'm having flashbacks to the 90s because this very issue was huge then! And Gingrich was a major player . . . along with Clinton on the other side. The original good cop and bad cop. <br /><br />At the time I was more of a tribal Democrat so I thought it was *good* that Clinton applied a bit of a whip because I thought it would steal the Republican's thunder (who really wanted to apply the whip to black people and poor people, I thought). Plus, the Democrats could provide a few carrots in exchange for a softer whipping (Earned Income Tax Credit, for e.g.).<br /><br />Clinton's welfare reform and escalation of the drug war was the tough love that Gingrich is promoting. He's back for more and has a black liberal 'good' cop to work with this time. This good cop is even better than Clinton! This time instead of welfare reform or escalating the war on drugs it will be privatizing public schools.Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65061044342233707242011-12-14T13:05:27.009-05:002011-12-14T13:05:27.009-05:00Says whom? Says little ole me, that's who!
I...Says whom? Says little ole me, that's who!<br /><br />I guess what I'm saying is that a member of a community is in a better position to criticize that community than is someone from outside that community. People from outside, especially people that have traditionally abused the community, who give advice on how to better the community, should be treated with skepticism. <br /><br />Jay Z and Prof. Gates come closer to representing the interests of the black community than does Gingrich or white liberals like Clinton. <br /><br />But even Jay Z and Prof. Gates are compromised because they serve in positions of power that have usually been used to suppress black people.<br /><br />For instance, I'm with Low Key re his criticisms of Jay Z. Like Low Key says, how can someone speak truth to power, like Jay Z supposedly does, like all rappers are supposed to do, when he's on speed dial and friendly with POTUS? Same thing with Gates. Gates and Jay Z are pretty much white liberals except for the color of their skin.Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4562504758382399112011-12-14T12:54:58.469-05:002011-12-14T12:54:58.469-05:00It's curious that in most public discussions o...It's curious that in most public discussions of poverty and poor children in the USA, whether in the media, on blogs like this one, or anywhere else, commenters rarely seem to register that there <i>there are more poor <b>WHITE</b> people than anyone else</i>, and almost nothing is ever said, let alone depicted or discussed, about <b>POOR WHITE PEOPLE</b>, except with condescension or indifference. White liberals are some of the worst on this regard, but white conservatives are perhaps the worst of all, since their policies have tended to impoverish people of all races over and over throughout the last 150 years.Pharaonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19497889317127407052011-12-14T12:51:36.136-05:002011-12-14T12:51:36.136-05:00Slow Down Walt.
"It is indeed more "rac...Slow Down Walt.<br /><br />"It is indeed more "racist" for a white person to lament the lack of good role models"<br /><br />Says whom? *White Liberals and opportunistic members of the black mis-leadership class*<br /><br />Sheesh. Go ahead and get all the "Clintons" out of your system so you don't have to bring him up again. Ever. You'll feel better.willyjsimmonsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83860881177273061952011-12-14T12:01:51.198-05:002011-12-14T12:01:51.198-05:00And it should be noted that white rich powerful ma...And it should be noted that white rich powerful male LIBERALS are racist in the same manner that Gingrich is racist. Bill Clinton used the same concern trolling with the Black community that Gingrich is using. <br /><br />Clinton increased Jim Crow incarceration of black people via the racist war on drugs. Clinton justified many of these actions using fake concern about the black community and the lack of role models (remember Sista Soulja and Bill Cosby, etc.?).<br /><br />But of course it was mostly punishment rather than a helping hand that Clinton and his partners in crime (which just happened to be Gingrich, ha) extended. They took away the ability for people associated with drugs to go to college or get public housing. They severely cut back on welfare. They kept unequal laws like harsher sentencing for black people's cocaine than for white people's cocaine. <br /><br />So Clinton pretended he was the liberal good cop that wanted to help black people. Gingrich played the bad cop that wanted to punish black people to get them to behave more correctly (not use drugs, get off welfare, etc.). So what did these partners in crime do? More punishment. Sure, Clinton tweaked the tax code to help the working poor a bit, so that is the main difference between Republican and Democrats: the Democrats will give you a small bit of carrot as they apply the whip. The Republicans simply want to beat you for your own good. But both good cop and bad cop work for the same master.Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-35046775841615265542011-12-14T11:50:02.050-05:002011-12-14T11:50:02.050-05:00Fair points . . . but . . . .
It's a bit dif...Fair points . . . but . . . . <br /><br />It's a bit different when a white rich powerful male laments the lack of good role models in the black community and when a black man laments growing up poor and powerless without good role models. People like Gingrich often use these arguments to implicitly argue that black people are responsible for these conditions and something in their character is responsible for these conditions. People like Jay Z seem to be honestly lamenting this fact.<br /><br />Sure, there may be a few conservatives like Gingrich that truly care about the plight of black people--but my impression is that they usually don't care and they make these "observations" about role models in black communities not as a rallying cry for positive action but as an excuse to suppress and collectively punish black people.<br /><br />So Gates is probably not "racist" in the way that Gingrich is. It is indeed more "racist" for a white person to lament the lack of good role models (which is subjective in itself--who's to say that the gangster isn't more moral than a bankster for instance).Walter Wit Mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-44680238815005026252011-12-14T11:02:24.552-05:002011-12-14T11:02:24.552-05:00The syllogism seems to be:
Newt Gingrich is on th...The syllogism seems to be:<br /><br /><i>Newt Gingrich is on the other team. Therefore if there's any remotely conceivable interpretation of something he said that's incorrect or improper, his statement should be evaluated as if that's the intended interpretation.</i>David in Calnoreply@blogger.com