tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post3850664681437627278..comments2024-03-28T14:57:10.887-04:00Comments on the daily howler: THE COLLINS RULES: An intriguing session!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46635166109137269552012-06-27T00:05:05.659-04:002012-06-27T00:05:05.659-04:00Durr hurr, surely if we just ignore the most promi...Durr hurr, surely if we just ignore the most prominent voices in the press, they'll go away! Surely the former NYT editorial page top editor and current columnist there has no influence at all in the media!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-3507277991476038892012-06-26T21:05:41.855-04:002012-06-26T21:05:41.855-04:00Anonymous 6:55 p.m.
The above average results in ...Anonymous 6:55 p.m.<br /><br />The above average results in Texas are indeed puzzling. Texas is low tax/low service state with very high levels of social pathology -- violent crime, divorce, out of wedlock births, etc., none of which correlate with high childhood achievement. And after years of one-party Republican rule, school funding has gone nowhere but down. Similarly, the public higher education system is starved of money, so graduates of state schools --- teachers -- tend not to be among the most qualified in the nation.<br /><br />One might also note that Texas' state leadership -- GWB and Rick Perry, for two -- is not unfamiliar to the nation. If these kinds of elected officials know something about education that the rest of the nation doesn't -- highly doubtful, I can think we agree? -- they've been keeping it a secret. Absent that magic pill, it's very hard to believe that their administrations, which were/are bought and paid for by Texas elites and companies doing business in the state, have been unusually responsive to the needs of poor children or devoted to the public education system.<br /><br />Fraud, of course, is one possible explanation: Somerby himself has covered such instances, notably the remarkable career of Michelle Rhee. Also the Joel Klein/Michael Bloomberg fiasco in NY. There *are* those unexplained miserable SAT and other scores. <br /><br />As usual, our Bob concedes he doesn't know how to explain the scores either, but they've been cited many times in previous posts as a refutation to those who claimed Texas is doing a lousy job. <br /><br />In any event, absent some good reason to suppose that Texas, with so much against its educational system, is doing relatively well, this reader would like to know more, before concluding much of anything.<br /><br />Can we fault Gail Collins for failing to give the matter even rudimentary consideration? Absolutely. Whether she's wrong about Texas' schools is, however, another matter -- one there's no attempt to resolve here. But, by saying so, I guess that means I hate minority children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48993183597743285492012-06-26T21:01:19.270-04:002012-06-26T21:01:19.270-04:00Oh, I've been reading this blog for about five...Oh, I've been reading this blog for about five years now. I started reading the comment section only lately.<br /><br />About two years ago I even wrote Somerby a fan letter (no reply).<br /><br />So I've been around long enough to know that his "stock post" is that NO ONE really cares about education. (A not uncommon lament from teachers and former teachers) <br /><br />That he illustrates this pronouncement by referencing those media outlets and individuals who are considered to be progressive and particularly enlightened, is only logical.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-34241398333806619152012-06-26T20:51:22.071-04:002012-06-26T20:51:22.071-04:00Actually, I don't hang on to every word Gail C...Actually, I don't hang on to every word Gail Collins writes like our host does. Why? Because I don't really care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62113649629238147982012-06-26T20:50:30.587-04:002012-06-26T20:50:30.587-04:00I see the point went right over your head, Cecelia...I see the point went right over your head, Cecelia, so allow me to educate you on a little Howler history.<br /><br />Once upon a time, Bob ran out of things to say about the 2000 election, so he tried to turn the Daily Howler into an education blog.<br /><br />Then he ran out of things to say about Michelle Rhee, so he went back to politics.<br /><br />Then he ran out of ways to say that George Bush didn't lie when he said that Saddam was trying to procure enriched uranium from Africa, so he turned it into the "Daily Critique of NYT and MSNBC."<br /><br />And any time he mentions education, its about something he saw in the NYT and MSNBC, and his stock post is that they don't care about children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20014426364571554202012-06-26T20:24:34.848-04:002012-06-26T20:24:34.848-04:00"Yes, it's quite disturbing that a blog p..."Yes, it's quite disturbing that a blog primarily devoted to media criticism would be so critical of the media."<br /><br />What I find particular interesting about the crittics of how cable news is treated by Somerby is that when addressing the Right, these same critics argue that partisan cable television is low-rated and largely irrelevant to the public at large.<br /><br />However, when they address criticism of MSNBC from the Left, it's to argue that said critic is giving aid and comfort to a 24/hour right-wing propaganda machine that is systemically destroying the body politic.<br /><br />Best to always remember that you aren't dealing with idealists, wonks, or philosophers here. They are warriors, who amongst their own, brook no plowshares rather than weapons.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89835939551241103452012-06-26T20:07:05.866-04:002012-06-26T20:07:05.866-04:00"I mean among people with no investment in Ga..."I mean among people with no investment in Gail Collins, Rachel Maddow or whoever the chosen idiot of the day is."<br /><br />Perhaps you should start with some soul-searching about THAT particular assertion.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-88765234576788033552012-06-26T19:51:02.960-04:002012-06-26T19:51:02.960-04:00"Yet here you are".
Can't speak for..."Yet here you are".<br /><br />Can't speak for that anonymous, but if "here you are" is intended as a reproach, it's a strange one, in an online culture where any given contributor or visitor may consult dozens of other blogs a day, commenting or not.<br /><br />If you're speaking for Bob, however, you might care to say so, if he seeks only admiring readers. Or if that's your own view, by all means let Somerby's readers know. It would put any disagreements in context.<br /><br />You might also care to ponder what it is that Bob Somerby could be doing, which provokes so much ill-will. I mean among people with no investment in Gail Collins, Rachel Maddow or whoever the chosen idiot of the day is.<br /><br />I realize such soul-searching is entirely foreign to this blog, but who knows, miracles never cease.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89701336518932591902012-06-26T19:31:47.111-04:002012-06-26T19:31:47.111-04:00i happened to see that interview over the weekend ...i happened to see that interview over the weekend and i thought she hgandled herself quite well. im not interested enuf in the subject matter to read the book but in a battle of credibility with somerby my moneys on collins.cant...anythingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57253047693226338262012-06-26T19:25:00.027-04:002012-06-26T19:25:00.027-04:00Wouldn't it be rather difficult to criticize C...Wouldn't it be rather difficult to criticize Collin's own book topic and her seriousness(as was cited here, in one interview Collins laughed off the fact that the journalist interviewing her was better informed on a particular aspect of the matter than was Collins, herself...)WITHOUT mentioning school kids?CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57966803603548549042012-06-26T19:22:56.701-04:002012-06-26T19:22:56.701-04:00"...declaim on subjects they don't really..."...declaim on subjects they don't really know anything about."<br /><br />didnt we all goto school? its not like were tallking about something exotic.cant...anytghingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2935469717106768322012-06-26T19:22:17.110-04:002012-06-26T19:22:17.110-04:00If only it were true that the only problem with Co...If only it were true that the only problem with Collins' work was that she fails to "meet Somerby's approval."<br /><br />If that were the size of it, her defenders could simply show how her work on education was actually important and thorough despite Bob's complaints.<br /><br />Any of you whiners up to that task?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24870838767744255032012-06-26T19:18:37.359-04:002012-06-26T19:18:37.359-04:00"...that they don't even believe"
f..."...that they don't even believe"<br /><br />forget your mindreading, juust google, site:dailyhowler.com irish catholic, and see for yourself.cant...anythingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-92130507934113067232012-06-26T19:04:41.671-04:002012-06-26T19:04:41.671-04:00Why not? If life sentences and possibly even deat...Why not? If life sentences and possibly even death sentences are OK to impose on kids who kill someone, I don't see anything wrong with using them as clubs to beat up fatuous elites parachuting in to declaim on subjects they don't really know anything about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23189698561088282922012-06-26T18:55:31.946-04:002012-06-26T18:55:31.946-04:00I couldn't tell you whether the point differen...<i>I couldn't tell you whether the point difference in scores is reflected by that disparity in native speakers...Without knowing this statistic, comparing states is meaningless.</i><br /><br />So how do you explain the fact that white kids in Texas outperformed white kids in Illinois? Is the white population in Illinois also less "established" than that of Texas? Perhaps there are relatively fewer white "native English speakers" in Illinois too?<br /><br /><i>As for not giving a damn about minority children, Somerby has, as you doubtless well know, repeated that charge many times about liberals generally -- evidently because the liberals who he chooses to cite here either don't give education the attention he demands, don't consult the "gold standard" in testing, or because they don't accept his prescriptions.</i><br /><br />Yes, it's quite disturbing that a blog primarily devoted to media criticism would be so critical of the media.<br /><br /><i>Par for the course perhaps, in the blogosphere, and certainly for this blog, where those who don't meet Somerby's approval are idiots, but a little grating nonetheless.</i><br /><br />Yet here you are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79466692957710280342012-06-26T18:54:20.479-04:002012-06-26T18:54:20.479-04:00If Bob truly cared about kids himself, he wouldn&#...If Bob truly cared about kids himself, he wouldn't use them as another club to beat Gail Collins with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36775187779836548582012-06-26T18:37:22.612-04:002012-06-26T18:37:22.612-04:00Link fail. Try this.Link fail. <a href="http://www.dfwworld.org/page.aspx?pid=193&cid=5&ceid=1328&cerid=0&cdt=6%2F27%2F2012" rel="nofollow">Try this</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78819228564819994052012-06-26T18:36:47.334-04:002012-06-26T18:36:47.334-04:00Collins will be in Dallas tomorrow to talk about h...Collins will be in Dallas tomorrow to talk about her book:<br /><br />http://www.dfwworld.org/page.aspx?pid=193&cid=5&ceid=1328&cerid=0&cdt=6%2F27%2F2012Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46157605402455755162012-06-26T18:28:58.986-04:002012-06-26T18:28:58.986-04:00Anon 5:30
Your statistical correction is either s...Anon 5:30<br /><br />Your statistical correction is either superfluous or incoherent -- my meaning was/is plain enough -- and you can consult the literature (see Pew Research studies, for example) for the commonly accepted distinction between states with "established" Hispanic populations, and "new" states. Both Illinois and Texas are regarded as "established", but Texas has a substantially longer history, for an obvious reason -- proximity to Mexico. I couldn't tell you whether the point difference in scores is reflected by that disparity in native speakers, but neither can Bob Somerby -- which was my point. Without knowing this statistic, comparing states is meaningless.<br /><br />As for not giving a damn about minority children, Somerby has, as you doubtless well know, repeated that charge many times about liberals generally -- evidently because the liberals who he chooses to cite here either don't give education the attention he demands, don't consult the "gold standard" in testing, or because they don't accept his prescriptions. This would seem a rather extreme assumption -- ignorance, incompetence or a difference of opinion with Bob Somerby isn't necessarily evidence of indifference to the plight of minority children. On the part of a guy who's activism is apparently limited to this blog, the charge is even more peculiar. Par for the course perhaps, in the blogosphere, and certainly for this blog, where those who don't meet Somerby's approval are idiots, but a little grating nonetheless.<br /><br />It's a talented man who can generate sympathy for Gail Collins, but I'd say our Bob succeeding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-9525525456834430562012-06-26T18:20:23.199-04:002012-06-26T18:20:23.199-04:00Sorry, lowercaseguy, I can't understand your b...Sorry, lowercaseguy, I can't understand your beef today.<br /><br />Bob shouldn't point out Collins' fatuousness -- why, exactly?<br /><br />Because if Somerby says Collins obviously doesn't care because she can't be bothered to learn her material, that implies Somerby does care? That's the problem? <br /><br />Better just to leave the misleading, fraudster Collins alone? <br /><br />If Somerby *really* cared, he would just shut up?<br /><br />No wait, it's all a code hidden in your enigmatic final "sentence," right??? Getting things right about minority education is a "cultural-left" thing, which is weak beer. That's it!!<br /><br />God you are such a tosser. I don't care what your case manager says.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60680687284055035322012-06-26T18:03:50.192-04:002012-06-26T18:03:50.192-04:00Anon 5:38pm, do understand that the whole accusati...Anon 5:38pm, do understand that the whole accusation about some bias against Irish-Catholics is a bogus bit of nonsense that they don't even believe.<br /><br />The claim is just a blog troll ploy to ignite some sort of personal response from Somerby.<br /><br />How did that work out for you, boys?...CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26553002472663938572012-06-26T17:54:43.479-04:002012-06-26T17:54:43.479-04:00'sommerby haters"? oh come on. i dont s...'sommerby haters"? oh come on. i dont see hate coming from the somerby-dubious crowd, myself included. . . . somerby is the hater and you bobanistas follow suit. . . . although i have to admit hes been slackin off lately in that regard. u feelin alrioght bob?istillcantthinkofanythingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64634570086871877602012-06-26T17:38:25.700-04:002012-06-26T17:38:25.700-04:00No, they don't care about that.
It's rid...No, they don't care about that. <br /><br />It's ridiculous the lengths to which the Somerby haters go. In this case, it is as if they feel compelled to demonstrate, by their own personal examples, that no, no one does care about schools and minority kids. It is more important to serve up the daily dose of hate for Bob. <br /><br />(Still, lowercaseguy can perhaps be congratulated, this one time, for not falling back on his shopworn Somerby-is-a-self-hating-Irish-American-Catholic schtick. Way to go, lowercaseguy!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20831026981334908482012-06-26T17:30:44.480-04:002012-06-26T17:30:44.480-04:00It wouldn't be the relative *number* of Hispan...It wouldn't be the relative *number* of Hispanics who are native speakers of English that would be important -- it would be the *percentage* of TX and IL Hispanic populations who are native English speakers. <br /><br />Do you have any source? I can't see any reason to just accept an assertion that TX is obviously, and significantly, higher than IL, to the point where the difference helps explain the test results.<br /><br />Re your second "point," couldn't find any plea for Somerby to be congratulated in this text. Where did you see that?<br /><br />Are you really saying that Somerby's being a lone voice pointing out Collins' garbage couldn't possibly be helpful?<br /><br />Or are you just talking nonsense for which you expect to be taken seriously?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91819128365651641512012-06-26T17:26:05.320-04:002012-06-26T17:26:05.320-04:00First of all, the comparison came from Collins, th...First of all, the comparison came from Collins, the "expert" author on the dubject.<br /><br />Secondly, you say that the suggestion that some people care about such things more than others is an "interesting" implication, and then imply that Somberby's concern is just some useless conceit.<br /><br />Now the latter is the interesting formulation. Mr. Somerby has devoted a blog to disseminating this information. I haven't seen it anywhere else. The expert Gail Collins isn't talking about the whole story. The media is fixed on reporting gotcha crap to inflame rather than inform. <br /><br />Doesn't the effort to educate and ignite discussion count for something to you? Afterall, it's assumed that you're spending your time and effort here to be informed rather than to merely chide a blogger.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.com