tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post4406959397808335264..comments2024-03-29T06:44:19.414-04:00Comments on the daily howler: CAN WE TALK: Piers Morgan tells the story his way! <b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61656436707786497182013-07-11T08:55:11.251-04:002013-07-11T08:55:11.251-04:00Anonymous on 7/11/13 @ 7:59A,
All parties have co...Anonymous on 7/11/13 @ 7:59A,<br /><br />All parties have conceded there was a struggle. Zimmerman, with Martin. Jeeves and you with the concept of evidence.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79345711341546790502013-07-11T07:59:04.552-04:002013-07-11T07:59:04.552-04:00DEADRAT,Here, a name synonymous with confused buff...DEADRAT,Here, a name synonymous with confused buffoonery: <br />All parties have conceded there was a struggle. All parties have conceded they were not struggling over the gun (though that is a possibility only limited by no TM DNA present on the gun).<br /><br />That leaves only you baying at the moon and snarling at your superiors whenever you read something that your profound ignorance has not assimilated. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64745068082855202832013-07-11T05:36:23.941-04:002013-07-11T05:36:23.941-04:00In other news, Zimmerman's MMA instructor is o...In other news, Zimmerman's MMA instructor is offering "The Zimmerman Training." <br /><br />http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimermans-mma-gym-offers-customers-the-zimmerman-training-program/<br /><br />I can save you lots of money on the training:<br /><br />Step one: Stalk strangers at night, while armed.<br />Step two: Fight like a girl. <br />Step three: Pull a gun and shoot the person you stalked.<br /><br />Hundreds of dollars saved, and only one life lost! Such a deal. <br /> <br /><br />tilhttp://til.tknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63497131609814004602013-07-11T03:52:55.144-04:002013-07-11T03:52:55.144-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.CMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481861530761114492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40403479557323586602013-07-11T03:49:43.321-04:002013-07-11T03:49:43.321-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.CMikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13481861530761114492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-88282769157255067252013-07-11T00:33:00.978-04:002013-07-11T00:33:00.978-04:00Anonymous on 7/10/13 @7:07P,
You and Jeeves deser...Anonymous on 7/10/13 @7:07P,<br /><br />You and Jeeves deserve each other. As they say, lie down with ignoramuses, get up struck stupid. I'm an out of control zealot? Why is that? Because I understand the law? Jeeves basically stated two questions, both of which I answered. Didja miss that? Or didja not understand the answers? Or did you just not care in your rush to call me an idiot?<br /><br />As for the struggle, what are you on about? I quoted Jeeves correctly, that the gun did not go off as they were struggling for it. Is your failure to read for comprehension an isolated problem or part of larger cognitive issues? You might want to get that checked out. My objection to Jeeves is that his little story about the absence of a struggle for the gun and Zimmerman's "conscious and deliberate" aiming for Martin is just that, a story, or narrative as TDH is fond of saying.<br /><br />"Of course they were struggling," you say. Well, apparently you were there at the scene with your buddy in confident ignorance. Have you talked to to the prosecution yet?<br /><br />Was there a struggle? I don't know since I don't have your advantage as an eyewitness to the event. Judging from Zimmerman's injuries, there was some kind of physical confrontation. Did they struggle for the gun? I don't know. Good thing you and Jeeves do, eh?<br /><br />Why not go back and re-read what I posted? Sound out the big words if you have to. Then get back to me.deadratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83384956048081902842013-07-10T22:46:32.632-04:002013-07-10T22:46:32.632-04:00Below is my rewritten post to fix glaring grammati...Below is my rewritten post to fix glaring grammatical error:<br /><br />Well, I went back and reread Bob's post. He acknowledges that Zimmerman was following Martin at first but no one, not even Zimmerman, denies that. I apparently wrongly inferred that you meant that Bob was accepting the claim that Zimmerman had continued to follow Martin after he was told by police dispatch not to. I see some evidence for that claim but no evidence that Bob has endorsed it--certainly not at the top of this thread.Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4297093276209114722013-07-10T22:44:42.259-04:002013-07-10T22:44:42.259-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hieronymus Braintreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303938809800287873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83882839302197083152013-07-10T19:48:05.495-04:002013-07-10T19:48:05.495-04:00AnonymousJuly 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM, your implicatio...AnonymousJuly 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM, your implication that Bob is insensitive to mistreatment of blacks because he was raised in the South is offensive and ignorant. Bob chose to spend many years teaching in inner city Baltimore schools. As a Harvard graduate, no doubt he could have gotten a job that was more remunerative and less challenging.<br /><br />I wonder, AnonymousJuly 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM, what gives you the moral authority to imply that Bob is a racist. What sacrifices have you made to help poor black children? David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4149063510166443752013-07-10T19:41:22.114-04:002013-07-10T19:41:22.114-04:00I think the NRO will be more interested in whether...I think the NRO will be more interested in whether Martin killed himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40190254015601400412013-07-10T19:39:33.110-04:002013-07-10T19:39:33.110-04:00Thepat positioning is all that is in EVIDENCE of t...Thepat positioning is all that is in EVIDENCE of the struggle. And that Zim was getting his ass kicked, or maybe Trayvon was pulling weedsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77180271843350278422013-07-10T19:38:01.847-04:002013-07-10T19:38:01.847-04:00Outrage over only those facts without considering ...Outrage over only those facts without considering further facts is invalid and insane.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12949822266978923092013-07-10T19:31:47.009-04:002013-07-10T19:31:47.009-04:00I don't remember a case so lacking in evidence...I don't remember a case so lacking in evidence that has been so propagated by some in the media. Morgan bought into the early misinformation and can't let it go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91707518471300494182013-07-10T19:29:49.332-04:002013-07-10T19:29:49.332-04:00Which eyewitness? Who has been identified as an ey...Which eyewitness? Who has been identified as an eyewitness? <br />The lady whose 911 conversation has been central in the trial says (understandably) that she was reluctant to venture outside her house. <br />Good (another neighbor) talks to 911 just as Martin was being killed. He testifies that the person in the red coat (Zimmerman) is below the person in the gray hoodie (Martin). OK. Is that the state of the combatants throughout the entire confrontation? I don't know. I'm sure you do.<br />Martin's mother, after hearing the 911 tape, says that it is her sons' voice. Martin's father(after hearing for the first time his son being killed) says no, that is not my son's voice. Then later he changes his answer. What racists!<br />God bless you. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57058525087109818122013-07-10T19:26:46.917-04:002013-07-10T19:26:46.917-04:00Bob,
I realize that as a southern white male who ...Bob, <br />I realize that as a southern white male who grew up in the 50s that you may not understand people's outrage at an unarmed black teenager being shot and killed but that doesn't mean you have to take everything that Zimmerman says as the truth. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82735672357380817852013-07-10T19:25:25.539-04:002013-07-10T19:25:25.539-04:00Is Martin's act of aggression in circling Zim&...Is Martin's act of aggression in circling Zim's car the first provocation? Is Zim following him the first? Is Martin punching him in the face the first?<br />Maybe Zim calling the cops and staring is the first! <br /><br />BookendsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74799664461750023832013-07-10T19:23:06.942-04:002013-07-10T19:23:06.942-04:00"Bookends". If Martin never walked back ..."Bookends". If Martin never walked back to Zim's truck Zim might have felt better about staying in it instead of deciding he should do more to keep an eye on Martin as the dispatcher was suggesting he do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-50058975879052987782013-07-10T19:22:39.947-04:002013-07-10T19:22:39.947-04:00ANON 4:45...You are on the right tract. Read Hanni...ANON 4:45...You are on the right tract. Read Hannity's Interview with Zimmerman (in evidence at trial) and you will learn more about Z's actions than the trial testimony afforded. Hannity actually was probing (gently), but brought out that even by Z's account, that Z refused to identify himself to TM when asked, that Z "grabbed" for his "pant's pocket" (which may well in fact have been grabbing for his gun) after refusing to identify himself, and stated that TM hit him after that grabbing action. But there's more...You can even see the emergence of the "looking for a house number" excuse originate when Hannity challenges him on why Z continued to follow TM after the dispatcher discouraged it.<br /><br />Z also stated that his yelling because he thought police were already there and that would identify his location. http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/07/18/exclusive-george-zimmerman-breaks-silence-hannity?page=3Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54415177360289190602013-07-10T19:19:28.336-04:002013-07-10T19:19:28.336-04:00The anti Zimmerman mob sure gets testy over specul...The anti Zimmerman mob sure gets testy over speculation which is funny because it is ALL THEY HAVE to support their agenda driven opinionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54507021320354575872013-07-10T19:07:10.313-04:002013-07-10T19:07:10.313-04:00Sorry deadrat but your inane lengthy rant to Jeeve...Sorry deadrat but your inane lengthy rant to Jeeves shows you to be an out of control zealot. His comment basically states a question, which you pretend is some profoundly ignorant rant of the sort that you yourself write here.<br /><br />Just look at your attack on the issue of his supposed comment that the "gun did not go off in a struggle", when Jeeves clearly stated that they were not struggling FOR THE GUN. Of course they were struggling, you deceitful idiot. (LW)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53995667389650456692013-07-10T18:46:17.503-04:002013-07-10T18:46:17.503-04:00You're joking of course HB.You're joking of course HB.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24358158451501487252013-07-10T18:46:14.699-04:002013-07-10T18:46:14.699-04:00"... but he manufactured a reason to go out i..."... but he manufactured a reason to go out into the rain". Well, you kind of "manufactured" that framework. In any case, there's nothing wrong with going out into the rain to work off some energy. So, whatever Martin's "manufactured" reasons were, you can cut them off with Occam's Razor: it doesn't matter why he went out and bought ice-tea and skittles. <br /><br />" it may be that Trayvon viewed beating up Zimmerman as a safe way to establish his own dominance" -- you're kidding me, right? You're making up this pseudo-psychological explanation out of whole cloth. <br /><br />While the 17yo-unarmed-kid-goes-to-store-ends-up-dead framework may be lacking in detail, at least it doesn't embellish anything with psycho-babble.Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09520998225031485048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82929611820758390982013-07-10T18:27:25.650-04:002013-07-10T18:27:25.650-04:00There were several witnesses and there is also inf...There were several witnesses and there is also information about Martin himself, including his tox screen, the contents of his cell phone, and the facts of why he was visiting his relatives in Florida, his prior behavior at school, and so on. In support of Zimmerman's account, there is physical evidence and corroboration in the form of his past behavior and actions, his physical injuries, and the recorded conversations with the police. It isn't just a matter of what he said in his statement but the consistency between what he said and all of the various forms of other evidence available.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14452294389867529092013-07-10T18:21:44.624-04:002013-07-10T18:21:44.624-04:00The situation is not so black and white in charact...The situation is not so black and white in characterizing Trayvon Martin. He is 17, yes, but he manufactured a reason to go out into the rain, supposedly to buy skittles and ice tea, and more likely in order to call his girlfriend (who is not his girlfriend) and to smoke some grass, and to work off bored energy after being cooped up in a strange apt with family, while being punished for misbehavior at school resulting in his suspension, separation from his friends and supervision by his father. Somehow he wound up fighting Zimmerman, who frankly doesn't seem like a guy who would provoke a fight with a random teenager. My "bookends" incline me to view Martin as less than an angel and more as someone so lacking in judgment (as some teens are) that his actions contributed to his own death.<br /><br />His texts and phone contents suggest another interpretation. Coming from an environment in which fighting is used to establish status among males, it may be that Trayvon viewed beating up Zimmerman as a safe way to establish his own dominance in a new neighborhood in which he had no friends and may have felt threatened and vulnerable. Zimmerman may not have necessarily been the target because he was "stalking" Martin, but may have been convenient for attack to send a message to other youth in that new neighborhood that he was tough and not someone to mess with. The "sweetness" of his photos may have made that toughness more necessary for him to establish. Evaluating Zimmerman as a timid older man, he may not have considered the possibility that he was armed until it was too late, a fatal judgment error when Zimmerman defended himself.<br /><br />To be plausible, a theory about what happened needs to be consistent with as many of the established facts as possible. Morgan wishes to ignore all facts about Martin and anything about Zimmerman inconsistent with his preferred explanation. Bob's point is that tribal explanations are highly selective about which facts they acknowledge. Theories need to explain the facts. When facts are selected to fit preconceived narratives, those narratives are not theories at all, but propaganda (or more charitably, motivated self-deception). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59757815206402739662013-07-10T17:15:52.810-04:002013-07-10T17:15:52.810-04:00Isn't it funny that many of the observers of t...Isn't it funny that many of the observers of this trial who liberally throw the epithet "racist" at others, base much of their judgements of possible actions on groaningly ridiculous stereotypes?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com