tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post4649927410043353527..comments2024-03-28T08:17:14.194-04:00Comments on the daily howler: David Corn shatters a firm pundit rule!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-71225926541521134582013-09-26T23:15:56.894-04:002013-09-26T23:15:56.894-04:00So would you say that TDH has paraphrased Dowd acc...So would you say that TDH has paraphrased Dowd accurately? Would TDH be satisfied if someone paraphrased, say, Susan Rice that loosely? <br /><br />Or is TDH full of hot air when it comes to the topic of paraphrase?Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63138832451747449482013-09-26T14:18:03.998-04:002013-09-26T14:18:03.998-04:00Oh, I do!Oh, I do!CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26852801912809551612013-09-26T13:58:44.523-04:002013-09-26T13:58:44.523-04:00You wish.You wish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40627491587494738642013-09-26T13:48:01.409-04:002013-09-26T13:48:01.409-04:00Bob -- Good to see you're still at it. Keep o...Bob -- Good to see you're still at it. Keep on keeping on. -- dksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72415881217725180012013-09-26T13:23:44.725-04:002013-09-26T13:23:44.725-04:00Why, Anon:18? You going to be under there with th...Why, Anon:18? You going to be under there with the other dust bunnies?CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26140711793931559982013-09-26T12:33:28.055-04:002013-09-26T12:33:28.055-04:00Anon11:54, you stop prefacing ridiculous charges o...Anon11:54, you stop prefacing ridiculous charges of sexism and hypocrisy based upon specious arguments and missing the point, and I'll stop schooling you.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1821513860493499232013-09-26T12:29:29.905-04:002013-09-26T12:29:29.905-04:00No, you suggested that the Prince's statement ...No, you suggested that the Prince's statement is indisputable.<br /><br />Well, that's not the point. Dowd piece contained a litany events and dynamics that she feels were reality checks for the a clinton and Obama Administration via a problematic region of the world. This she pronounces upon with her usual irony-cum-snark tone.<br /><br />However, things do happen to mitigate the best laid plans of mice and political leaders.<br /><br />What is Dowd's point in that screed? That politicians can't predict the future? That sometimes fate undercuts their best intentions? Duh...<br /><br />No, what Dowd and her attitude Is about is suggesting that she and her readers know that this is a big ole complex world and are more sophisticated, sassy, and savvy than those tacky pols who have to get elected.<br /><br />The shelf-life for that bullshit is finally reaching expiration date within her own tribe.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61526377276288095582013-09-26T11:54:27.651-04:002013-09-26T11:54:27.651-04:00"I think that is Somerby's complaint.&quo..."I think that is Somerby's complaint."<br /><br />And where would Somerby be without Cecelia to explain daily what she "thinks" he really means?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14763546694269085022013-09-26T11:18:03.290-04:002013-09-26T11:18:03.290-04:00"That is the essential ...."
You ought ..."That is the essential ...."<br /><br />You ought to know. Make sure you check under your bed before retiring for the evening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23373032767708471052013-09-26T10:18:37.786-04:002013-09-26T10:18:37.786-04:00So you're saying that Dowd has raised importan...So you're saying that Dowd has raised important and debatable points. And Somerby doesn't like that...why? Certainly columnists should be more than Obama and Clinton sycophants. And Bob won't argue the merits of the actual policies ... so what is Bob's complaint exactly? Dowd isn't fawning enough to his favored politicians? Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-91670388065301431982013-09-26T10:10:25.974-04:002013-09-26T10:10:25.974-04:00Easy to see why we are celebrating our statistical...Easy to see why we are celebrating our statistical tie<br />with emerging post Stalinist nations.<br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-58079533499983033822013-09-26T09:37:32.393-04:002013-09-26T09:37:32.393-04:00Did Obama raise expectations well above his abilit...Did Obama raise expectations well above his ability to deliver change?<br />Or did Middle East nations expect more than THEY could deliver?<br />Reread the plaint of the Progressive Liberal above.<br /><br />This is what Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei had to say after the Cairo speech, and he was not alone.<br /><br />"The nations of this part of the world ... deeply hate America," the Reuters news service quoted him as saying in a televised speech. "Even if they give sweet and beautiful (speeches) to the Muslim nation ... that will not create change. Action is needed."<br /><br />New Arab saying, "The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy!"<br />Old American saying, "With friends like this, who needs enemies?"gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78862657053237401412013-09-26T09:16:11.430-04:002013-09-26T09:16:11.430-04:00I think Dowd went after the Clintons because they ...I think Dowd went after the Clintons because they are ripe targets foe snark, and that is what her column is about. She's never one to pass over a low-IQ trope, and has coined new ones in her day.<br /><br />She's all about "irony" ....the knowing wink...the condescension...the sophisticated urbane viewer of the human scene, that she and her fellow media members like to see themselves as being.<br /><br />For years conservatives complained about her columns being little more than a more arch version of a Jon Stewart segment.<br /><br />As partisanship has increased in liberal circles, she become more provocative to them as well, and is wearing thin.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28637803516265704612013-09-26T07:32:25.195-04:002013-09-26T07:32:25.195-04:00Trolles, Dowd mentioned the 2009 speech in a litan...Trolles, Dowd mentioned the 2009 speech in a litany of negative remarks on the foreign policy performance of both the president and the Clintons.<br /><br />I think that is Somerby's complaint.<br /><br />Dowd also mentioned the Prince as a way of arguing that Pres. Obama has been burned with the Syrian bombing issue and has backed away from it as he has he pledge in the 2009 speech that he made early in his tenure.<br /><br />Those arguments are debatable.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77380638138291677362013-09-26T07:20:14.627-04:002013-09-26T07:20:14.627-04:00He's saying his is the only view that counts.
...He's saying his is the only view that counts.<br /><br />That is the essential psychology of a troll.CeceliaMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017255006204800193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1182343956595653192013-09-26T06:34:08.205-04:002013-09-26T06:34:08.205-04:00"those you backed are either disgraced or sta..."those you backed are either disgraced or starring on FOX"<br /><br />Do you know what Poop, er KZ, is talking about?<br /><br />It's OK, neither does he.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28280365159281127722013-09-26T01:09:05.532-04:002013-09-26T01:09:05.532-04:00I wonder if Turki al-Faisal was to become Governor...I wonder if Turki al-Faisal was to become Governor of Idaho how many column inches Gail Collins would devote to him?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-50331634419881074572013-09-26T01:01:31.548-04:002013-09-26T01:01:31.548-04:00Lindy. Those of you to further to the left were o...Lindy. Those of you to further to the left were obviously not statistically significant during the primaries. And those you backed are either disgraced or starring on FOX.<br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-2710248419516782592013-09-25T19:53:13.781-04:002013-09-25T19:53:13.781-04:00From Somerby, the self-proclaimed Prince of Paraph...From Somerby, the self-proclaimed Prince of Paraphrase:<br /><br />"The inanity spread down the page as Dowd delivered scattershot barbs at everyone she dislikes. Prince Turki al-Faisal said Obama screwed up.<br />As we all know, if the prince speaks, his statement just has to be right!"<br /><br />Actual Dowd:<br /><br />"Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former Saudi Arabian ambassador to the U.S., told an audience at the Core Club in Midtown Sunday evening that President Obama raised expectations in the Arab world with his 2009 Cairo speech that were never met. "<br /><br />Does anybody want to try to refute Dowd on this point? Or should we cheer Bob's featherweight snark? TDH will always claim it only does media criticism--but when Dowd quotes an appropriate public figure on a policy matter, it's Bob that begins to clown. <br />Trollmesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70107294299840474992013-09-25T19:50:52.422-04:002013-09-25T19:50:52.422-04:00"...Dowd hated the Clintons because they didn..."...Dowd hated the Clintons because they didn't include her on their guest lists when they first took office. She took reprisals. What reprisals someone might take against a colleague behind the scenes, we wouldn't have access to."<br /><br />>>> the reprisals she may have taken to non-media people would have been in her column. any reprisals she would have taken to a media person would be in her column as well. the only exception might be her using her influence with her papers bosses against fellow ny times journalists or columnists, assuming she had that kind of influence, which is a big assumption imo.<br /><br />"If someone is ruthlessly mean to others, people with nothing to fear will nevertheless cower. That is human nature."<br /><br />>>> i disagree with that as a general principle. but specifically here, youre giving her way too much power and dismissing the rest of the media as totally spineless. you seem to have bought the somerby theory that dowd is like a witch with svengali like powers. you demonize her and in the process take the rest of the media off the hook for their malfeasance.certifiedgooglemachineoperatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-85209098390416497482013-09-25T18:59:33.733-04:002013-09-25T18:59:33.733-04:00Someone doesn't have to attack you in print in...Someone doesn't have to attack you in print in order to make life difficult for you in press circles. There is consensus that Maureen Dowd hated the Clintons because they didn't include her on their guest lists when they first took office. She took reprisals. What reprisals someone might take against a colleague behind the scenes, we wouldn't have access to. We do, however, see her vindictiveness in print with respect to public figures she would like to damage (for whatever reason) and her unfairness in the way she goes about it. <br /><br />If someone is ruthlessly mean to others, people with nothing to fear will nevertheless cower. That is human nature. No one wants to be on the receiving end, even if it is remote that they would wind up in column space. There are other ways people can hurt each other when they are in the same profession, that the public would never become aware of. <br /><br />I think she has been snide about other people's work but I am not going to spend any time chasing down examples.Lindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18150917026169758732013-09-25T18:18:41.076-04:002013-09-25T18:18:41.076-04:00I specifically asked, " does she denigrate ot...I specifically asked, " does she denigrate other *journalists or columnists*..." because somerby said "the guild" (media) seems to fear her. if she doesnt, then i dont see why media people would fear her. certifiedgooglemachineoperatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23842493522596162922013-09-25T17:46:59.955-04:002013-09-25T17:46:59.955-04:00Her column is not about media criticism. Why shoul...Her column is not about media criticism. Why should it have the same content as Somerby's? Are you asking whether she names names? She denigrates lots of people by name (if you consider Obambi a name). Lindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-14222336064211762372013-09-25T17:14:46.987-04:002013-09-25T17:14:46.987-04:00Unfortunately, the choice in the real world, in po...Unfortunately, the choice in the real world, in politics, is generally the lesser of two evils.AC/MAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-56843098266775446542013-09-25T17:06:00.938-04:002013-09-25T17:06:00.938-04:00somerby says,
"The guild has tolerated Dowd ...somerby says,<br /><br />"The guild has tolerated Dowd for a very long time. She seems to be feared to the same extent that the swells once feared J. Edgar Hoover."<br /><br />>>> that's on the guild, not dowd, to the extent its true that she is feared or whatever.<br /><br />i don't read her except the odd column referenced somewhere. does she denigrate other journalists or columnists as somerby does regularly, or at all? certifiedgooglemachineoperatornoreply@blogger.com