tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post570524315513702133..comments2024-03-28T17:40:13.653-04:00Comments on the daily howler: THE LETTERS: Defining the actual shape of our problem!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79126549787156329302021-07-26T21:17:50.886-04:002021-07-26T21:17:50.886-04:00LOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
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I have been rejected by my wife after three (3) years of marriage just because another Man had a spell on her and she left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster Dr Azuka have help a man to get back her wife and i gave him a reply to his email (dr.azukasolutionhome@gmail.com) and he told me that a man had a spell on my wife and he told me that he will help me and after 24 hours that i will have my wife back. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my wife. Thanks for helping me Dr Azuka..or add him up on whats-app +44 7520 636249William Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01955875382936112368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48756287926504232382020-01-04T21:27:07.374-05:002020-01-04T21:27:07.374-05:00Who's "we"? You and your follow Anon...Who's "we"? You and your follow Anonymous Ignoramuses? Didja all get together and vote to ignore me? Didja think that would hurt my feelings?<br /><br />If you can't understand what TDH is saying, and you can't counter my criticisms, then fine. It's not fair to expect what you're incapable of giving. But don't pretend that your failure to provide substantive responses is the result of a principled boycott.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38645745014303393512020-01-04T21:18:01.328-05:002020-01-04T21:18:01.328-05:00It isn't the % that makes a sample representat...<i>It isn't the % that makes a sample representative. It is selection in order to achieve demographic characteristics like those of the larger population.</i><br /><br />You’re right. The selection in China’s case is not only from small sample populations (small compared to China’s overall population, that is), but the sampled areas are all from eastern China.<br /><br /><i>Random selection doesn't ensure a representative sample. It eliminates selection bias.</i><br /><br />True, like the selection bias that would occur if the chosen students were all from <br /> Westchester County or Exeter, Miss Porter's and Hotchkiss.<br /><br /><i>Volunteering introduces selection (in this case self-selection) bias.</i><br /><br />The volunteers were volunteering to be sampled; they didn’t get to choose which schools were selected or which students in those schools took the test.<br /><br /><i>I suspect that 15% of China's population is a larger number than however many students were randomly selected in the USA.</i><br /><br />Good Lord, yes! The US sample size was about 4K. I intended the 15% to show just how restricted the sampling area was in China.<br /><br /><i>Would it be fair to include and compare students from rural areas with those from large cities? Is that fair in the USA either or are there urban/rural differences in both China and the USA.</i><br /><br />If you’re going to present a composite score for each country, than it would be mandatory to include students from both rural and urban areas.<br /><br /><i>I think Somerby is using this sampling supposition to permit him to ignore Asian successes.</i><br /><br />Where do you come by this conclusion? TDH’s thesis is that a large segment of our school kids (i.e., white and Asian-American kids) do better on PISA than anyone else, and that includes China, which doesn’t have a proper composite score.<br /><br /><i>I haven't seen any evidence that there is real bias in China's sampling.</i><br /><br />Have you looked? China’s sampling is certainly biased on a geographical basis. Very likely in on a rural/urban basis.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31104376630393965242020-01-04T20:51:14.498-05:002020-01-04T20:51:14.498-05:00Dating an occasional 18 year old doesn't excus...<i>Dating an occasional 18 year old doesn't excuse what Moore did with younger girls.</i><br /><br />Of course not. And if you'd actually read what TDH wrote, you'd know he was disgusted with reporters who concentrated on Moore's oh-so-shocking but legal relationships while ignoring the "credible" (TDH's word) charges of sexual assault.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41307068536045248652020-01-04T20:37:06.279-05:002020-01-04T20:37:06.279-05:00MS also spent a lot of money on teacher training. ...MS also spent a lot of money on teacher training. That's where the use of more current methods comes in. And they addressed credentialing seriously, suspending teachers without proper training. Look beyond Hanford's op ed and read some of the articles about what happened in MS to bring their scores up.<br /><br />A lot of Somerby's arguments fall apart if you consider a topic in the light of more available info than what he has chosen to excerpt or niggle about. These trivial statistical carps have little to do with the broader issues being raised in these various articles he decides to complain about. But that means thinking beyond the numbers and looking at the bigger picture.<br /><br />That's what I believe those various letter writers were doing -- taking the issues seriously and bringing other info to bear from their own knowledge and experience. But it is hard for Somerby to contribute to that, beyond his insistence that they are all wrong because of some triviality about stats mishandled by some reporter (or not).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-29576664637970874682020-01-04T16:45:05.735-05:002020-01-04T16:45:05.735-05:00It isn't the % that makes a sample representat...It isn't the % that makes a sample representative. It is selection in order to achieve demographic characteristics like those of the larger population. Random selection doesn't ensure a representative sample. It eliminates selection bias. The smaller the sample, random or not, the less likely it will be representative.<br /><br />Volunteering introduces selection (in this case self-selection) bias. <br /><br />I suspect that 15% of China's population is a larger number than however many students were randomly selected in the USA. Would it be fair to include and compare students from rural areas with those from large cities? Is that fair in the USA either or are there urban/rural differences in both China and the USA. <br /><br />I think Somerby is using this sampling supposition to permit him to ignore Asian successes. I haven't seen any evidence that there is real bias in China's sampling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-86228678752422683612020-01-04T16:37:37.001-05:002020-01-04T16:37:37.001-05:00TDH doesn't know anything about either of thos...TDH doesn't know anything about either of those topics.<br /><br />How about if we just ignore you instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-38573452302026984112020-01-04T15:36:44.583-05:002020-01-04T15:36:44.583-05:00PISA says they randomly chose the schools and stud...PISA says they randomly chose the schools and students within the chosen schools to make up a demographically representative sample. We know some states that volunteered to participate. In 2017, it was Massachusetts, North Carolina, and Puerto Rico.<br /><br />China's results are from Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu Province and Zhejiang Province, which together have less than 15% of China's population.<br /><br />Happy now?deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-20162199924434659672020-01-04T15:10:29.973-05:002020-01-04T15:10:29.973-05:00Try to focus: two separate topics -- educational p...Try to focus: two separate topics -- educational programs and reporting about the effects of educational programs. TDH doesn't blog about the former, or at least I can't remember a blog entry that discusses operational methods. He's obsessed with the reporting and the related discussion of the results of those programs.<br /><br />TDH is using the common rhetorical device of placing action before words. Since he can't judge your mental state, he's not interested in whether you're invested emotionally and thereby have that caring feeling. If you don't act like you care, then for him, you don't really care. If you find that stance annoying, ignore it. deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53500807248596806392020-01-04T15:00:01.411-05:002020-01-04T15:00:01.411-05:00Therefore, he [TDH] goes on and on about something...<i>Therefore, he</i> [TDH]<i> goes on and on about something he doesn’t know,….</i><br /><br />Try to focus: there are two subjects here: the reporting and discussion about the gaps and the education strategies to overcome the gaps. TDH “goes on and on,” and one might say obsessively, about the former. He doesn’t discuss the latter.<br /><br />[I]<i>t might behoove him </i>[TDH]<i>, as someone who pretends to care about education and as someone ignorant of what works in classrooms to spend a little time studying the teaching method she </i>[Hanford]<i> outlines, which may actually be quite effective.</i><br /><br />(<i>Pretends</i> to care. I saw what you did there.)<br /><br /> It might so behoove him, but apparently it doesn’t. It might behoove you to give your attention to blogs dedicated to topics you find important and interesting. But that apparently doesn’t obtain either.<br /><br />To be fair, Hanford’s 12/5/19 Op-Ed piece in the <i>NYT</i> hardly qualifies as an “outline” of the teaching method she touts, but she does give an instructive link. And such method “may actually be quite effective,” but it turns out that the statistics Hanford quotes don’t support that case. And that’s what interests TDH.<br /><br />Mississippi seem to be doing a very un-Mississippi like thing — actually spending money to identify struggling students and implementing programs to help them. That sounds interesting to me, but if I want to know more about the nuts and bolts of the effort, I’ll have to go elsewhere to find out. TDH doesn’t seem to share my interest, or at least he doesn’t think it’s germane to his blog. So be it.<br />deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24407380295251302282020-01-04T12:53:27.374-05:002020-01-04T12:53:27.374-05:00“Somerby never says anything at all about how to h...“Somerby never says anything at all about how to help black kids catch up.<br /><br />deadrat says: “Perhaps he doesn’t know.”<br /><br />Therefore, he goes on and on about something he doesn’t know, and accuses everyone else of not caring, scoffing at research, mocking people who study the problem, never discussing actual education outside of test scores? Seems like a good plan. <br /><br />(For example, he gave a clownish, dismissive “summary” of Hanford’s “science of reading”, and objected to her op-Ed because of her attributing a correlation to Mississippi’s test score increase. That is a valid objection, but it might behoove him, as someone who pretends to care about education and as someone ignorant of what works in classrooms to spend a little time studying the teaching method she outlines, which may actually be quite effective. )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76336535375002821402020-01-04T12:41:58.460-05:002020-01-04T12:41:58.460-05:00“I don’t know anything about education” says deadr...“I don’t know anything about education” says deadrat. <br /><br />Neither does Somerby, but that doesn’t stop him from blogging about it, acting as if he knows, and accusing the rest of the world of not caring. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-55277539193343280552020-01-04T12:36:57.267-05:002020-01-04T12:36:57.267-05:00Somerby made the claim about “the whole ragtag ban...Somerby made the claim about “the whole ragtag band” of white students. It is his job to justify that claim. He should link to relevant Pisa documents that show the selection process for US students, and also to justify his contention that China’s results aren’t “representative.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61503857108744405762020-01-04T08:41:36.319-05:002020-01-04T08:41:36.319-05:00The only one lying about Roy Moore here has been S...The only one lying about Roy Moore here has been Somerby.<br /><br />Dating an occasional 18 year old doesn't excuse what Moore did with younger girls. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61155405743687210462020-01-04T02:55:58.382-05:002020-01-04T02:55:58.382-05:00Notice how energetically deadrat defends Somerby i...<i>Notice how energetically deadrat defends Somerby in this new year.</i><br /><br />Notice how the new year brings the same clueless criticisms of TDH.<br /><br /><i>Like Somerby, deadrat won't engage in any actual discussion of relevant subject matter, nothing about education.</i><br /><br />I don’t know anything about education, and knowing nothing, I don’t opine on the topic. I recommend that general principle. You should find it highly applicable in your own life.<br /><br /><i>Is he performing any actual service here or is he trolling.</i><br /><br />Neither, as should be clear to everyone, or at least to those who know what a troll is. Whatever I’m doing, it’s worth at least as much as it’s costing you.<br /><br /><i>He sure as hell isn't engaging with anyone in a substantive manner.</i><br /><br />I’ve discussed germane Supreme Court rulings, sections of the United States Code, principles of legal interpretation, demographics, election statistics, the Mueller Report, our treaties with Ukraine, the history of segregation in schools,…. <br /><br />Should I go on? I don’t mind if you don’t like my manner or if you don’t agree with my opinion of this blog, but why not show some intellectual integrity here? I look things up and present the facts as I understand them. I might be wrong, but that’s different.<br /><br /><i>I didn't feel like looking up that exact, specific number….</i><br /><br />So unlike me, you don’t feel like getting your facts straight, but I’m the one who doesn’t engage “in a substantive manner.” Have I got that right?<br /><br /><i>Assuming they aren't the same guy.</i><br /><br />Sez the Anonymous Ignoramus @11:05A, just like the rest of the Anonymi Ignorami.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82334777609276732902020-01-04T02:38:03.112-05:002020-01-04T02:38:03.112-05:00An excellent point hidden in your comment, 10:19A....An excellent point hidden in your comment, 10:19A. You can't automatically draw conclusions with comparisons of healthcare in the US to healthcare in any one country. US healthcare costs and outcomes compare poorly to almost all western, industrialized countries. Maybe the US is unique, so different from every other country that any comparisons are misleading. Or maybe the comparisons will tell us otherwise.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53866398183376014342020-01-04T02:34:02.782-05:002020-01-04T02:34:02.782-05:00Sorry, 11:08A. I don’t understand how bringing up ...Sorry, 11:08A. I don’t understand how bringing up “factors outside of schools” is necessarily misguided. Racial achievement gaps could be due to many such factors — hunger in the morning, overall nutrition, access to health insurance and health services, lack of early-childhood care outside the home, gun violence in neighborhoods. None of those has any basis in race.<br /><br />Unless, of course, you’re a racist to begin with, in which case everything has to do with skin color and nothing has to do with facts. deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-25312116592018757042020-01-04T02:17:28.021-05:002020-01-04T02:17:28.021-05:00Did you miss the part of the discussion where it w...<i>Did you miss the part of the discussion where it was pointed out that promotion rates are treated as MS does in many states….?</i><br /><br />I’m not quite sure what it means to treat promotion rates. Mississippi has a far higher retention rate than other states.<br /><br /><i>NAEP scores do not take that into consideration (e.g., make any adjustment) for that.</i><br /><br />Exactly, and exactly the point. Having a high retention rate (i.e., a high percentage of students not promoted) before the 4th grade NAEP tests filters out students who, in general, will score poorly on the test. It follows that better-prepared students will take the NAEP tests in the 4th grade, so the mean score should rise.<br /><br />This isn’t to say that Mississippi isn’t doing the right thing. It sounds like they are, giving special attention to those who in their first few years of school, fail to gain promotion to the next grade.<br /><br /><i>It doesn't imply any "huge conspiracy" to conceal anything.</i><br /><br />True. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I’m saying that Mississippi is not like other states when it comes to promotion policies, <i>according to each state’s reporting</i>. If you’re going to claim that other states are really following Mississippi’s example, then those other states are supplying phony data in a huge coverup. I don’t find that credible.<br /><br /><i>English Language learners are also typically excluded from taking the NAEP, along with special ed students.</i><br /><br />How is that relevant here? That much is true everywhere.<br /><br /><i>It is specious to expect any commenter here to "prove" whether a cross-section of white students took the test or not,</i><br /><br />I’m not asking for proof; I’m asking for evidence for a claim.<br /><br /><i>Somerby's claim that all white students are tested is surely wrong because it is too inclusive.</i><br /><br />TDH says, “That rather high score for our ‘white’ kids includes all such kids nationwide.” and you’re right, that’s likely wrong because all it takes to invalidate that statement is one white kid who missed the test. But I think his point is that the white PISA scores aren’t the result of cherrypicking the best white students. TDH (also) writes,<br /><br /><i>That rather high score for our "white" kids isn't a score from Westchester County or Exeter, Miss Porter's and Hotchkiss. It's a score for the whole ragtag band of kids from our nation's dominant demographic group.</i><br /><br />The “band” of kids is from all regions, not all kids in all regions.<br /><br /><i>It can simply be that poor kids … are more likely to be out of school on the days the test is administered, or … rich kids are more likely to attend private schools that would have been less likely to participate in the testing. See how this works?</i><br /><br />i think I see how the poor kids example works. Nonwhite kids in general are poorer. Poorer kids in general have lower scores, lower attendance, and so will miss the test more often than rich kids who are in general more likely to be white, have higher scores, and take the test more often than poor kids. This would skew the test scores higher for white kids. Do you have evidence for lower than expected participation for poor kids?<br /><br />But I’m not sure about the private school example. If rich, white kids are likely to do better on the NAEP, but they’re also more likely to go to private schools that don’t participate in the testing, doesn’t that mean that the overall white scores are thereby lower than they should be, and thus all the more significant at their reported level? Sorry if I’m missing your point.<br /><br />In any case, NAEP does extensive study of achievement in private schools, including comparison with public schools. All their data is online. Did you find some bias due to private school participation, or lack thereof?deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45767180910103117252020-01-04T01:10:57.108-05:002020-01-04T01:10:57.108-05:00Each time you cast aspersions on my test scores, I...<i>Each time you cast aspersions on my test scores, I am tempted to tell you what they are, but ... I'll just say that you are wrong.</i><br /><br />OK, I believe you. First of all, it was just my rude, snide, boorish, and contemptuous --but <i>adorable</i>, dontchathink? -- manner of saying how inapt your analogy was. Taking standardized tests is a skill unto itself, and high scores on multiple-choice tests don't always indicate an ability to apply skills outside the artificial environment of the test session.<br /><br />If the analogy you constructed is any indication, your skill in this area is wanting. Of course, it's only one data point, and you may be quite skilled in general. In any case, it would be no great surprise were your standardized test scores high.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.com