tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6141417523902748470..comments2024-03-28T15:44:54.740-04:00Comments on the daily howler: The horrible thing which happened to Krugman!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-46390923660385556742013-05-28T03:23:52.196-04:002013-05-28T03:23:52.196-04:00So put on your anthropologist hat, and identify an...So put on your anthropologist hat, and identify any Deadly Dating patterns of the single men <br />you meet. Pokmon such as Golbat and Venomoth are able <br />to measure them. 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The kind you buy and put away for 10 years or more? Non-marketable. Must be an "IOU". Mitch4949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37242957967627917672013-03-20T02:38:03.899-04:002013-03-20T02:38:03.899-04:00There is "wit and intelligence" on abund...There is "wit and intelligence" on abundant display in the above comment -- not to mention historical and literary allusion. All rolled into five sentences. Nice.Mike Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70083232035084902192013-03-19T23:14:10.009-04:002013-03-19T23:14:10.009-04:00If they sell out Social Security then I predict th...<i>If they sell out Social Security then I predict that citizens of both parties will indeed be measuring lamp posts.</i><br /><br />The guilty parties will escape punishment, because of the delay. President George Bush knew that SS was unsustainable. His SS Trustees told him so, year after year. But he didn't fix SS. Ditto for Barack Obama and those who served in Congress for the last 13 years. These people have allowed SS to remain on a track where it will not be able to fulfill its current promises. <br /><br />However, by the time the actuarial predictions become reality, Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Boehner et. al. will be forgotten. It will be too late to hang from lamp posts.David in Calnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40203539547293744522013-03-19T17:43:40.190-04:002013-03-19T17:43:40.190-04:00Both government bonds and specisl issue social sec...Both government bonds and specisl issue social security bonds have value as long as the economy is productive enough for taxes to fund their redemption.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-13253618411849327102013-03-19T17:04:00.159-04:002013-03-19T17:04:00.159-04:00Exactly, Anon 6:54. I know you're being sarcas...Exactly, Anon 6:54. I know you're being sarcastic, but Bob is presenting a legitimate critique here. You need that half-sentence rebuttal (I like Dean Baker's suggestion) in a public debate. You can always elaborate later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62065059830706750642013-03-19T17:01:34.482-04:002013-03-19T17:01:34.482-04:00I disagree, Anon 2:36.
I've found Krugman to ...I disagree, Anon 2:36.<br /><br />I've found Krugman to be a very quick wit and an often excellent explainer of policy. He's just not "always" good or, as Anon 6:20 says, allowed to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-35289074489202382152013-03-19T15:09:14.542-04:002013-03-19T15:09:14.542-04:00"Businesses, cars, and houses are all assets,..."Businesses, cars, and houses are all assets, and when the bank can't fulfill my withdrawal request, I expect it to sell one or more assets to meet its obligation to me."<br /><br />So indeed are all those so-called "IOUs" in the trust fund Mike. And they are far more valuable and far more liquid than the "businesses, cars and houses" that you THINK your bank owns.<br /><br />Quick Economics 101: The banks own none of those. They only own the loans on themAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-64573759463803531332013-03-19T13:19:01.247-04:002013-03-19T13:19:01.247-04:00"The "trust fund" is nothing but a ..."The "trust fund" is nothing but a promise..."<br /><br />Just like ALL US debts. <br /><br />SS is no different. The promises of the SS trust fund have been met in the past, and continue to be met today.<br /><br />Just as with ALL US debts, there is no reason aside from demagoguery to believe they won't continue to be met in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84567989073112097882013-03-19T13:14:28.123-04:002013-03-19T13:14:28.123-04:00"The salient fact is that they are IOUs, back..."The salient fact is that they are IOUs, backed by nothing more than the willingness of politicians to see them backed."<br /><br />A fact which Social Security shares in common with ALL our US debt instruments, Mike The Misleader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61015793976485164632013-03-19T13:14:08.620-04:002013-03-19T13:14:08.620-04:00"The money that workers and employers pay int..."The money that workers and employers pay into SS isn't saved and invested. Instead, it's used to pay current retirees."<br /><br />For the last 30 years, <i>a portion</i> of the money workers and employers pay into SS has been used to pay current retirees. However, the collections for SS have exceeded payouts and that excess has--in keeping with the design approved by St. Reagan--been <i>loaned</i> to the general fund. <br /><br />Try not to leave out relevant details, will you? Quaker in a Basementnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54226885871363449352013-03-19T13:07:00.295-04:002013-03-19T13:07:00.295-04:00Take a look at the annual report for any large cor...Take a look at the annual report for any large corporation. You know how they account for U.S. government securities? They include them in a category with a name like "Cash and equivalents."<br /><br />That's right, kids. When the masters of Wall Street have one of these "worthless IOUs," they call it money.Quaker in a Basementnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42004334033713287402013-03-19T12:32:41.295-04:002013-03-19T12:32:41.295-04:00The original quote was referring to Treasury bonds...The original quote was referring to Treasury bonds held by wealthy Americans. You may have some in your IRA or 401-K. Those T-bonds are not backed by assets. They are backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government, and are considered the safest investment on Earth. They are functionally identical to the bonds held by the Trust Fund. If the Trust Fund did not buy the bonds, the government would have had to sell more to other investors. The money raised by selling ALL Treaury debt has "already been spent". Mitch4949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12100884890088156332013-03-19T11:50:20.700-04:002013-03-19T11:50:20.700-04:00Yup, and somebody better tell the plutocrats--like...Yup, and somebody better tell the plutocrats--like Pete Peterson--they're shit outta luck too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-82592339589714146792013-03-19T11:08:59.638-04:002013-03-19T11:08:59.638-04:00Funny, Mike, I see all kinds of well reasoned argu...Funny, Mike, I see all kinds of well reasoned arguments in this thread responding to your idée fixe, i.e."We're broke, we're broke, ahhhh it's just IOUs!" (Wash, rinse, repeat). So, are the govt. bonds held by the Social Security Administration somehow less secure that all the other govt. bonds the U.S. issues? If so, we've got bigger problems than Social Security to worry about. You're right that ultimately we rely on our elected officials to fulfill their end of the social contract. If they sell out Social Security then I predict that citizens of both parties will indeed be measuring lamp posts.cacambonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37280763922240869872013-03-19T08:50:13.743-04:002013-03-19T08:50:13.743-04:00"With respect to his bank deposits, Johnson p..."With respect to his bank deposits, Johnson probably thinks that whatever the bank has done with his money, they have secured some collateral against the risk of the borrower's insolvency."<br /><br />Senator Johnson knows nothing about how banks really work (does he really think the banks have enough housing stock to be anywhere near equal collateral to the mortgages they hold?), and frankly I'm shocked he never heard of "too big to fail".<br />Like I said, economic know-nothings.<br /><br />BertoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30688911453645656052013-03-19T08:43:32.161-04:002013-03-19T08:43:32.161-04:00Make up your mind, Mike. Is SS just part of the g...Make up your mind, Mike. Is SS just part of the general fund (like Defense, for instance), or is it separate and going bankrupt (despite it being owed $2.3 Trillion from the general fund's borrowing of the Trust fund)?<br /><br />BTW, tough break if you want the government to defend you. Defense is broke and we'll have to depend on future politicians to fund it. No guarantee there. <br /><br />Berto<br /><br />BertoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63250728591917060082013-03-19T08:35:58.098-04:002013-03-19T08:35:58.098-04:00It ALL comes out of general revenue, Mike.
Unles...It ALL comes out of general revenue, Mike. <br />Unless you think SS is separate (in which case it has $2.3 Trillion balance in the Trust Fund).<br /><br />BertoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63027441693359168172013-03-19T03:32:21.262-04:002013-03-19T03:32:21.262-04:00"Better pull you money out of those certifica..."Better pull you money out of those certificates of deposit and savings accounts."<br /><br />If my bank's balance sheet looked like the U.S. government's balance sheet, I would.<br /><br />The best things is: I would be free to do so.Mike Sojahttp://www.kayak2u.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5466201485915988032013-03-19T03:22:54.738-04:002013-03-19T03:22:54.738-04:00"SOcial security is strong"
Payouts hav..."SOcial security is strong"<br /><br />Payouts have been coming out of general revenue for something like three years, now, Berto. It's never going to go back into the black.Mike Sojahttp://www.kayak2u.com/blog/noreply@blogger.com