tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6309847816796409431..comments2024-03-28T21:09:45.625-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Supplemental: Concerning those score gains in Grade 8 math!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-74374896997050698862015-11-06T12:34:17.065-05:002015-11-06T12:34:17.065-05:00thank you gan .thank you gan .oil pembesar penishttp://pembesarpenisvimax.hol.es/obat-pembesar-penis/minyak-lintah-papua/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37615935178419950682015-10-18T06:36:26.614-04:002015-10-18T06:36:26.614-04:00outlet moncler moncler shop moncler down jackets m...<a href="http://www.monclerjacketsoutletsale2015.com/" title="outlet moncler" rel="nofollow"><strong>outlet moncler</strong></a> <a href="http://www.monclerjacketsoutletsale2015.com/" title="moncler shop" rel="nofollow"><strong>moncler shop</strong></a> 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The problem is Bob's roughly ruled white middle schoolers will be outperforming the average high school seniors in no time. Like the next test cycle. And your average eighth grade Asian already is. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26884988144459838902015-04-15T21:04:01.797-04:002015-04-15T21:04:01.797-04:00The topic of these comments is racial minorities&#...The topic of these comments is racial minorities' academic performance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62090480480302513822015-04-15T20:37:15.767-04:002015-04-15T20:37:15.767-04:00If they gained 2.5 years the rough rule of thumb i...If they gained 2.5 years the rough rule of thumb is still valid as a rough rule. But you might be right in your last comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-62372806231516903572015-04-15T17:11:37.033-04:002015-04-15T17:11:37.033-04:00OMB (Thumbing that Old Rule on the Rubes with the ...OMB (Thumbing that Old Rule on the Rubes with the OTB)<br /><br />Part Two<br /><br />In Bob's latest sixteen sentence rumination on his favorite "very rough rule of thumb" he asks the same question twice and makes an accusation of fraud three times in that short space.<br /><br />Forget the many falsehoods, some of which have been discussed in this and other comment boxes in BOBworld. In the middle of his presentation, after displaying his ability to perform math which might test well on 4th grade NAEP, before and after blowing the Cavalry charge against the fraudulent press, our One True BOB retreats.<br /><br />"Shall we add? Black kids gained almost thirty points in Grade 8 math from 1990 through 2013. ....<br /><br />Using that very rough rule of thumb, that would represent almost three years of math achievement. <br /><br /><strong>We doubt that kids have actually gained that much.</strong>"<br /><br />What??? He doubts kids have actually gained what his rough rule of thumb prescribes? He doubts a rule "experts" have used, according to BOB? He doubts the progress dictated by a rule he himself "has long told" us about?<br /><br />It is a fraud for newspapers to have not told us on their front pages about gains which Bob doubts mean what the rough rule he has often told us about tell us they mean.<br /><br />We too have doubts. We doubt BOB will stop using this rough rule of thumb any time it serves his narrative. And we doubt many people would put faith in the NAEP as the Gold Standard demonstrating continuous and amazing progress if the newspapers did what Bob asked. Because if they investigated what these score gains mean they would find the people running the NAEP cannot tell them.ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-33736569800118613262015-04-15T16:15:27.217-04:002015-04-15T16:15:27.217-04:00"You are an obsessed person using facts to ca..."You are an obsessed person using facts to camouflage your hatred."<br /><br />Hey, you can't use facts around here! This is The Daily Howler!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84361114303513626422015-04-15T15:03:44.743-04:002015-04-15T15:03:44.743-04:00Who is we? Bob Somerby is talking about NAEP.Who is we? Bob Somerby is talking about NAEP.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8714019459118516362015-04-15T14:28:58.448-04:002015-04-15T14:28:58.448-04:00We aren't talking about what NAEP says, we are...We aren't talking about what NAEP says, we are talking about journalists. Nothing has prevented them from discussing school progress in the meantime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-31731947030279111542015-04-15T13:55:59.030-04:002015-04-15T13:55:59.030-04:00@ 11:51 AM I won't defend KZ but I have seen ...@ 11:51 AM I won't defend KZ but I have seen nobody defend your silly and repetitive demands for people to go away.<br /><br />I am also not sure if your attack is aimed at KZ or @ 5:04, since it was that first comment KZ addressed. But neither seem to be demanding perfection from Somerby, but rather that he quit lying. He said "silence is a well established fact." It isn't. They both proved it. And Somerby is the one who regularly throws around his Nexis searches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12898243546443366092015-04-15T12:48:16.384-04:002015-04-15T12:48:16.384-04:00I see you have shifted all your focus to racial mi...I see you have shifted all your focus to racial minorities @ 11:43 and most of them have neglectful, addicted, or criminal parents. <br /><br /><br />Humble Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17962379333762215386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-81404899866021035132015-04-15T12:44:10.575-04:002015-04-15T12:44:10.575-04:00Hey @ 11:35, did you notice that 2013 was the last...Hey @ 11:35, did you notice that 2013 was the last time NAEP Long Term Test Results were released? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1797738390048163452015-04-15T12:23:01.348-04:002015-04-15T12:23:01.348-04:00OMB (Thumbing that Old Rule on the Rubes with the ...OMB (Thumbing that Old Rule on the Rubes with the OTB)<br /><br />Part 1<br /><br />"How large a gain in math achievement might these score gains indicate?<br /><br />That’s an important question! It’s an act of <strong>journalistic fraud that newspapers </strong>like the Washington Post and the New York Times have long refused to report these gains, and <strong>have failed to investigate that important question.</strong><br /><br />"How large a gain in math achievement might those score gains indicate? As <strong>we’ve long told you, by a very rough rule of thumb,</strong> ten points on the NAEP scale is often compared to one academic year."<br /><br />BOB is right about one thing here. He has told us about this very rough rule of thumb quite often. And quite often we have piped in from our distant planet that experts on your planet have examined this question and found out BOB is "full of it" for using it. Yet he keeps pulling that thumb out of wherever it is he keeps it and waving it in under his readers noses hoping they can't read, remember, or smell.<br /><br />The newspapers don't need to investigate this important question because the NAEP has done so itself. In fact they investigated BOB's very own "rough rule of thumb" and found it impossible to verify without expensive duplicative tests.<br /><br />The NAEP study suggested that "Ten points for reading may not be “right,” but it cannot be far wrong." But it also said math scores do not fit the same patterns. It concluded "“How many NAEP<br />scale points is one year’s growth?” is a question users of the scores can sensibly ask; there should be an answer. It is not difficult to obtain the answer; it is merely expensive."<br /><br />http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED528992.pdf<br /><br />So BOB uses a rule he should know has not been validated. He applies it to subjects is should no be used on. He calls it fraud that newspapers don't investigate the question when in fact, the NAEP itself has investigated it and concluded the question cannot be answered without considerable expense that they, they givers of the test, have been unwilling for forty plus years to make.<br /><br />Coming: BOB blows the cavalry charge then rides his rough thumbs in retreat.<br /><br />KZoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-34440833007863658922015-04-15T11:51:26.857-04:002015-04-15T11:51:26.857-04:00No one can maintain perfect consistency with their...No one can maintain perfect consistency with their own past statements. For one thing, opinions can and should change. For another, people don't remember what they've said while the internet never forgets. <br /><br />You think that throwing someone's words back at them is a valid attack. It isn't. It is meaningless. No one cares because no one expects Somerby or anyone else to be that consistent.<br /><br />You fantasize that people are affected by the things you say about Somerby. They size you up for a troll and skip your comments, even when you don't label them. <br /><br />Have you noticed that no one here defends you? There is a reason for that. You need to go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41726724465199205922015-04-15T11:47:10.773-04:002015-04-15T11:47:10.773-04:00Did you notice that there have also been lots of s...Did you notice that there have also been lots of stories noting these "gains"? Did you notice that Somerby says the "media" never does this?<br /><br />Did you notice that ZK never said that Somerby invented the "rough rule of thumb" (which is now modified as a "very rough rule of thumb" but continues to use it after it has long since been discredited?<br /><br />Did you notice that Somerby does all this in service of a "narrative" that is quite pleasing to his rubes?<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76498622447686573602015-04-15T11:44:49.771-04:002015-04-15T11:44:49.771-04:00Somerby has attacked Rhee repeatedly, especially b...Somerby has attacked Rhee repeatedly, especially back when she was in the DC school district.<br /><br />Criticizing someone and asking that they get things right is not "attacking" them. Attacking is what you do. Somerby wants advocates like Ravitch to be more effective by saying accurate things.<br /><br />In the real world, when someone corrects a mistake you have made, they are more likely to be trying to help you. When someone ignores your mistakes, it means they don't care about whether you succeed or fail, don't care about your efforts. <br /><br />In politics, people attack those they wish to see fail and they ignore the mistakes of those they support. That's because politics isn't about making, doing, accomplishing anything. It is about manipulating public perceptions and those are swayed by criticism (correct or specious). In real life, people fail when they get details wrong and they succeed when they do things right, because the details matter. Somerby is coming from the real world, not politics.<br /><br />You are coming from cloud cuckoo land, where the people you dislike can do nothing right and must be destroyed because you hate, hate, hate them. You are an obsessed person using facts to camouflage your hatred. You are ugly and warped inside and you poison these comments with your presence. If I were you I wither and die of shame, but you cannot see yourself as others see you, so you persist. It sucks to be you but I feel more sorry for the blog readers here, because without you we might all be able to discuss something besides your mental problems. Go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-73259379026303488372015-04-15T11:43:18.703-04:002015-04-15T11:43:18.703-04:00One parent is usually absent or in prison or drug ...One parent is usually absent or in prison or drug addicted and the other is usually neglectful or drug addicted, and neither one encourages their children to do anything but become dependent victims of racism. Excuses about poorly paying jobs are inexplicable efforts to divert attention from the real problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-27905027413266913282015-04-15T11:35:41.915-04:002015-04-15T11:35:41.915-04:00Did you notice that 2013 was TWO YEARS AGO? Did yo...Did you notice that 2013 was TWO YEARS AGO? Did you notice that in between there have been other stories about education that have not acknowledged any gains, that have been critical of educational efforts, that have painted the gloomy picture about American education?<br /><br />You have some beef with Somerby that has nothing to do with this issue. You clearly hate his guts. No one else here cares what your problem is. Stop this garbage and leave this blog alone.<br /><br />I posted the remark yesterday about the greatly decreased drop out rates and how that may have flattened any gains at the high school level. I am not Somerby. Anyone else might have noted the same thing. It is OBVIOUS in the data. You don't see it because you want to chastise Somerby and make him appear to be wrong when he has made valid points. <br /><br />Somerby didn't invent the "Rough rule of thumb." He is not the only one using it. It is important to try to relate the score gains back to actual real-life achievement by kids -- to say what those gains mean. No one has done that so the only measure we have is that ROUGH rule of thumb, which Somerby now, is calling VERY rough. That should be enough to make it clear that he isn't saying those kids have gained actual years of ability. No one would still be harping on this except a nasty troll like you with some other reason for hating Somerby.<br /><br />We are all tired of your noise. Go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19933400247736965482015-04-15T10:50:22.093-04:002015-04-15T10:50:22.093-04:0011:22 AM,
Where are the parents?
Working at least ...11:22 AM,<br />Where are the parents?<br />Working at least 2 jobs, because (like many problems this nation faces) business stopped fairly paying for labor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-27287551931523488652015-04-15T10:49:20.350-04:002015-04-15T10:49:20.350-04:00Yes, in fact BOB attacked Ravitch back in July, 20...Yes, in fact BOB attacked Ravitch back in July, 2013 right after she contradicted Lyndsey Layton's article in the Washington Post which covered, guess what?: NAEP test scores.<br /><br />(As you know, the Post is silent on these matters so let's keep this our little secret.)KZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22652196724256213342015-04-15T10:43:54.818-04:002015-04-15T10:43:54.818-04:00Anon. @ 5:04 should have started with BOB's ow...Anon. @ 5:04 should have started with BOB's own archives before searching the Post. See comment below.KZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-67320765328358112132015-04-15T10:41:31.040-04:002015-04-15T10:41:31.040-04:00OMB (Exploring Mysterious Memory Losses on NAEP wi...OMB (Exploring Mysterious Memory Losses on NAEP with the OTB)<br /><br />Howdy friends and Bobfans. We see BOB is back playing the school numbers game again. We always come back for these fun exercises.<br /><br /><strong>FRAUD ALERT</strong><br /><br /><strong>TDH Today</strong><br /><br />"Saturday morning, a breakthrough occurred. <br /><br />As we noted yesterday, it became clear that the Washington Post actually knows a certain fact about the nation’s black kids: <br /><br />The Washington Post knows that black kids have made significant gains in their NAEP math scores.<br /><br />We were never entirely sure that the Post knew that....<br /><br />You’d almost think a newspaper like the Post would want to do a full report about this important matter.<br /><br />If you thought that, you’d <strong>almost surely</strong> be wrong."<br /><br /><br /><strong>Almost surely</strong> Bob Somerby is committing the very act of fraud he accuses the Washington Post of committing.<br /><br /><strong>TDH Two Years Ago</strong><br /><br />FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2013<br /><br />This morning, the Post has recanted: Here’s a basic news report we thought we’d never see.<br /><br />"In this morning’s Washington Post, Lyndsey Layton reports the latest data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress (the NAEP)."<br /><br /><br />Not only did Layton and the WaPo cover the gains made in the NAEP LTT test when it was released in June 2013, she covered results from all subjects, all ages, all ethnic groups and both genders.<br /><br />Somerby not only covered it in his blog, he posted his own comment to the Post's comment box. (His comment, by the way, excuses the poor results of 17 year olds and blames the results on not having the high drop out rates schools once had....sound familiar?)<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/academic-achievement-gap-is-narrowing-new-national-data-show/2013/06/27/6c47b764-debd-11e2-963a-72d740e88c12_story.html<br /><br />Oh, and did we notice he has once again trotted out the old "Rough Rule of Thumb"? Why yes. Yes we did notice. More on that later.ZKoDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18344902326988019862015-04-15T10:40:07.800-04:002015-04-15T10:40:07.800-04:00No, Diane Ravitch does that, and Bob attacks Ravit...No, Diane Ravitch does that, and Bob attacks Ravitch.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com