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I'll have to reconsider my position. ...Perhaps. I'll have to reconsider my position. But I think there's a world of difference between the deaths that might be prevented if our social structures were better aligned to the humane and those deaths that are definitely caused by individual callous neglect or malign behavior. Not to the victims of course, but to people who want to change things.<br /><br />If only because the solutions are as different as the problems.<br /><br />TDH might be right or wrong on the issue, and I might be right or wrong in defending him, but my objection still stands to nonsense like TDH is trying to "negate" all of Lowery's claims because TDH thinks Lowery is a sloppy reporter.<br />deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-39492874167818007412020-07-02T15:33:14.658-04:002020-07-02T15:33:14.658-04:00
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An error? Lowery’s examples included a Na...@deadrat<br />An error? Lowery’s examples included a Native American, a white man, a white woman, and three black men killed in Minnesota at the hands of police. He is clearly saying these are representative of a cycle (shooting/protest/reform). Noor’s greatest concern is the killing of unarmed black people at the hands of police, but that doesn’t mean the others aren’t part of a troubling cycle. How hard is this to understand?mhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24216368812886845062020-07-01T20:48:28.253-04:002020-07-01T20:48:28.253-04:00So now Democrats are sneering at people who live i...So now Democrats are sneering at people who live in low-cost housing? Does that include public housing? It doesn't take much for these people to reveal themselves. They are mentally warped and morally bankrupt and to a person feign compassion to grift and obtain power for its own sake. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-81485374329576795182020-07-01T20:35:58.361-04:002020-07-01T20:35:58.361-04:00Of course it's a criticism of Lowery, Anonymou...Of course it's a criticism of Lowery, Anonymous @5:25P. Lowery got his facts wrong by making Christen's shooting part of the frame for his article's "gruesome cycle."<br /><br />It's possible to argue that the error is so slight that it's not worth considering or it's possible to twist yourself into an mh-shaped pretzel and say it's not an error at all. I don't see any other good-faith arguments in opposition.<br /><br />As always, YMMV.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-22383510216148328312020-07-01T20:16:04.381-04:002020-07-01T20:16:04.381-04:00Yes, we saw that enthusiasm in Tulsa, where the ra...Yes, we saw that enthusiasm in Tulsa, where the rally was a miserable flop. Centristnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-30143782109820842782020-07-01T20:14:53.183-04:002020-07-01T20:14:53.183-04:00'TDH in his usual, charming but obsessive way,...'TDH in his usual, charming but obsessive way, is criticizing a reporter for getting the facts wrong. '<br /><br />TDH in his usual Trumptard way is nitpicking and cherry picking so he can attack liberals and defend his Orange Messiah. <br /><br />Centristnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-26271574348940688552020-07-01T19:40:35.240-04:002020-07-01T19:40:35.240-04:00You added the last one yourself, David.You added the last one yourself, David.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17745628663878616482020-07-01T18:11:13.736-04:002020-07-01T18:11:13.736-04:00The word "cycle" is inappropriate. It se...The word "cycle" is inappropriate. It seems to imply that killings led to protests by activists, which led to small reforms, which led to more killings, etc. The first two steps look OK, but certainly not the last one.David in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45342195174385460492020-07-01T17:25:17.989-04:002020-07-01T17:25:17.989-04:00It is obvious that Somerby considers Christen'...It is obvious that Somerby considers Christen's case to be a criticism of Lowery because Somerby raised that case and then criticizes Lowery. Do you think he is talking about Christen for his health?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-45062381570749812372020-07-01T16:57:22.098-04:002020-07-01T16:57:22.098-04:00Those details have nothing to do with the larger a...<i>Those details have nothing to do with the larger argument.</i><br /><br />Did I say otherwise? Did TDH?<br /><br /><i>Further, there have been demonstrations by activists following suicides by cop, especially when the victim was mentally ill and there was strong feeling that a better way should have been found to help the person who wound up dead.</i><br /><br />Really? When was this?<br /> <br /><i>That makes Christen's death an appropriate example because of the cycle, not because of the details of his case.</i><br /><br />Even assuming you can back up your claim, was there a "better way" that the cop could have taken in Christen's case?<br /><br /><br /><i>But even if Somerby did find one example that contradicted that cycle, why is it that one example can negate the entire premise?</i><br /><br />It doesn't. Do you really not understand TDH's complaint?<br /><br /><i>Somerby raises this particular example in order to negate Lowery's claims (which are about Noor, as mh discusses below).</i><br /><br />And you know this how? Talking to Somerby?<br /><br /><i>There are enough that do fit to make this a concerning problem.</i><br /><br />True. Nobody contests this.<br /><br /><i>And yes, my mileage usually varies.</i><br /><br />You should get that checked out because I don't think you're firing on all cylinders.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-72521645848035003612020-07-01T16:07:08.109-04:002020-07-01T16:07:08.109-04:00I'm suggesting that if 12:00 believes those co...I'm suggesting that if 12:00 believes those constitutional remedies will work, he should prove it by using them himself. The victims of overzealous police cannot do it, since they are already dead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7425104140773256872020-07-01T16:05:08.591-04:002020-07-01T16:05:08.591-04:00Those details have nothing to do with the larger a...Those details have nothing to do with the larger argument. Further, there have been demonstrations by activists following suicides by cop, especially when the victim was mentally ill and there was strong feeling that a better way should have been found to help the person who wound up dead. That makes Christen's death an appropriate example because of the cycle, not because of the details of his case.<br /><br />But even if Somerby did find one example that contradicted that cycle, why is it that one example can negate the entire premise? There are still 60 other cases that presumably fit that cycle. The details of the report are irrelevant to all of this.<br /><br />Somerby raises this particular example in order to negate Lowery's claims (which are about Noor, as mh discusses below). A single counter or misfit example can only overturn Lowery's argument if he were saying that ALL such killings fit Noor's pattern, which he did not say. There are enough that do fit to make this a concerning problem.<br /><br />And yes, my mileage usually varies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-37905897481949739432020-07-01T15:55:46.401-04:002020-07-01T15:55:46.401-04:00Here’s the key to Lowery’s piece:
“Noor soon beca...Here’s the key to Lowery’s piece:<br /><br />“<b>Noor soon became intimately familiar with the gruesome cycle</b>: The police killed someone. Activists protested. Small reforms were won. The police killed someone else…”<br /><br />Lowery is telling the story from the point of view of Noor, and, by extension, other black lives matter activists. <br /><br /><i>They</i> see it as a “gruesome cycle” of killings “by police.”<br /><br />In this case, Noor, being a resident of Minneapolis, saw these events as they were reported in her local media. But there were others that she heard about, that Somerby fails to mention: Philando Castile and Justine Damond. (Damond was a white woman killed by a black police officer who got 12 years in prison for the killing.) A couple of incidents outside Minnesota are also mentioned. <br /><br />Somerby objects or seems to object to viewing these incidents as connected, or part of a pattern, and he seems to object to saying the killings were done by “the police” instead of, presumably, by individual police officers. <br /><br />That constitutes his main concern with Lowery’s piece. But his piece conveys the thinking of BLM activists, who do see a pattern and do view “the police” as a kind of tribal entity. mhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-58204763331744247472020-07-01T15:12:19.036-04:002020-07-01T15:12:19.036-04:00He isn't. Here's the takeaway:
According ...He isn't. Here's the takeaway:<br /><br />According to Lowery's essay, Christen's death had been part of a "gruesome cycle" in which "the police" killed someone and than [sic], after activists protested, "the police" killed someone else.<br /><br />TDH in his usual, charming but obsessive way, is criticizing a reporter for getting the facts wrong. If it was important enough to correct Lowery's misspelling of the victim's name and misaffiliation of the shooter, then it should be important enough not to include Christen in the "gruesome cycle" of Lowery's theme.<br /><br />As always, YMMV.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60402501532790242552020-07-01T15:11:22.649-04:002020-07-01T15:11:22.649-04:00I live in a predominantly white, well-armed neighb...<i>I live in a predominantly white, well-armed neighborhood with security gates and patrols in a solid red state....</i><br /><br />All double-wides, I assume.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-4987640274202659122020-07-01T15:09:42.876-04:002020-07-01T15:09:42.876-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.deadrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02828198094140822987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-60081485198830524022020-07-01T13:14:06.786-04:002020-07-01T13:14:06.786-04:001:06,
Are you suggesting the "good guy with a...1:06,<br />Are you suggesting the "good guy with a gun" is mere fantasy, designed to get society to tolerate the wholesale slaughter of classrooms of 6-year olds, cynically trotted out by the marketing arm of gun manufacturers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com