tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post6873711093166858192..comments2024-03-28T05:37:00.890-04:00Comments on the daily howler: THE FAKING OF THE PRESIDENT: Could that claim of bias be true?<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-53508694170773096692012-06-08T09:58:15.756-04:002012-06-08T09:58:15.756-04:00Shorter lowercaseguy:
My hobbyhorse, though unpro...Shorter lowercaseguy:<br /><br />My hobbyhorse, though unproven ["unproven" -- see how kind I'm being to the little nitwit?], remains a pleasure for me to ride. Whee, look at me go!!lowercaseguys casemanagernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-71683055536916523232012-06-07T23:19:27.830-04:002012-06-07T23:19:27.830-04:00he has said he has "irish aunts" and tha...he has said he has "irish aunts" and that his mother was "irish catholic". but even if his heritage was entirely irish-catholic, could he not be anti-irish-catholic? . . . in fact isnt that the one thing that a pr man would look for in somebody to spread a bigoted message, that the messenger be immune or somewhat immune to charges of bigotry?the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76337723166007159712012-06-07T22:13:09.714-04:002012-06-07T22:13:09.714-04:00I had the impression that Somerby himself has an I...I had the impression that Somerby himself has an Irish/Catholic heritage.TGGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84185603560710458612012-06-07T22:01:20.166-04:002012-06-07T22:01:20.166-04:00“As it happens, a sizable number of the "libe...“As it happens, a sizable number of the "liberal" leaders presently given voice in the media are apparently Irish-Catholic...” - volt61 <br /><br />>>> no. somerby is shifting the blame onto americans with irish catholic heritage all out of proportion to “our” presence in the media as front people or as mangement. “we” are the patises and that should concern you regardless of what you think of “us” because he is letting the true media malefactors off the hook by creating this green potemkin media landscape. they can feel free to screw up in the future if not held accountable if this shift in blame is effective. that is a problem for everybody, not just “us”.<br /><br /><br /><br />“...it seems to me that TDH is engaging in a form of self-criticism...” - vol61t<br /><br />>>> that assumes he is of irish-catholic heritage. he says his mother is. does he identify with her side of the family? also he may not believe what he writes. a lot of money is flowing from the right wing these days. . . . and regardless, there are and always have been self hating people who will go after their own group harder than any outsider.the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-68543165420970173462012-06-07T21:28:42.875-04:002012-06-07T21:28:42.875-04:00there are factors which do affect the various bias...there are factors which do affect the various biases in common. you mention regionalism. density of the group in a particular area is a big variable, and of course this differs from part of the country to another.<br /><br />but there is a particular historical reason for the bigotry against americans with an irish-catholic heritage which doesnt apply to the others and which keeps it going for reasons which dont apply to the others. . . . its a patriotic bigotry i.e. its a good thing to engage in, unlike the others. (obviously its not a good thing if your in that group.) <br /><br />it just so happened that the fathers and mothers of the country were of english heritage primarily. and it just so happens that their ethnic identity depended on them not being of irish heritage because it just so happened that the ancient inhabitants of southern and eastern britton decided to differentiate themselves (falsely per latest gene based research*) from the rest of the people to the west and north of them within the brittish isles. and it just so happened that they chose for their own supposed ethnicity the ethnicity of their latest occupiers, after the romans left, the germanics tribes, angles, saxons etc.<br /><br />so the irish were needed for many centuries for the “english” to be able to convince themselves they were special. that bigotry sailed to america with the founding fathers and their forebearers here.<br /><br />this country also needed a unifying ethnicity to provide good order and it was natural for it to be the english. and since the english thought and still think of themselves as ethnically germanic, it was a natural thing for the huge influx of germanic immigrants and their descendants to form with the english and their descendants a huge germanic (and pseudo-germanic) hegomonic block in this country, assisted by protestantism as another unifying (and identifying) factor. . . . but obviously for this to work, the non-germancics, non protestants had to be effectively second-class citizens, very particularly the irish-catholics who so obviously (historically, not physically) screamed ”not english” (and therefore also not germanic). <br /><br /><br />and there was still an english-occupied ireland into the twentieth century to remind everybody of the history, and whats what over here in america as a result.<br /><br />and i cant see this state of affairs changing. new people to the country adopt the patriotic bigotry with little or no contact with americans who have an irish-catholic heritage. and they become good americans by doing so.<br />------------------------------<br /><br />but what im saying is *not to stop* doing your patriotic duty –- just dont let somerby use this fact-of-life to hurt you in the manner of an overly aggressive immune response. dont let him persuade you of abc or xyz because he is so sympathetic to your wholesome bigotry. dont let him confuse you.<br /><br />i care because if the ship of state sinks with the right-wing in control, i go down too into the likely hellish result.<br /><br />* “Saxons, Vikings and Celts: the Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland” by Bryan Sykes or “Origins of the British” by Stephen Oppenheimer.the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17488131269126068072012-06-07T19:56:45.991-04:002012-06-07T19:56:45.991-04:00I'm 50 years old and was raised in South Flori...I'm 50 years old and was raised in South Florida. So perhaps it's due to "generational" or regional factors that I'm able to say that I've never seen or heard much of bias being held in the contemporary U.S. culture against Irish-Catholics, in the way that bias clearly remains in effect against many other ethnic groups, and am only aware of such through reading of it in historical accounts. So I would never have made the connection that many of TDH's "targets" happen to be Irish-Catholic, except where this point is belabored by those who for some reason don't want to acknowledge the validity of TDH's criticism. <br /><br />Since I've become aware that many - but by no means all! - of Bob's targets share this ethnic heritage, it seems to me that TDH is engaging in a form of self-criticism with the goal of stripping away that which weakens the progressive cause. As it happens, a sizable number of the "liberal" leaders presently given voice in the media are apparently Irish-Catholic (as I've become aware of as a results of this comments page), so any criticism of what passes for current liberalism will of necessity entail a critique of many who share this background.<br /><br />I wish that respondents would address the substance of TDH's criticism against liberals who happen to share Irish-Catholic heritage, rather than continue to nail up a straw man to distract from the genuine points that TDH raises.Volt61https://www.blogger.com/profile/02076655173734446847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41555644692913733672012-06-07T17:46:29.486-04:002012-06-07T17:46:29.486-04:00and i should have said that his point is not just ...and i should have said that his point is not just anti-walsh. he also is using walsh and hannity in his ongoing morality play to make the larger point that americans with an irish catholic heritage *are* bad and so dont hire them and dont listen to them. and in this column, if you have an ounce of self respect, drive them into the sea.the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-152224551315645452012-06-07T17:33:20.846-04:002012-06-07T17:33:20.846-04:00ansd i should say the long retired jack welch.ansd i should say the long retired jack welch.the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-8059385528627781062012-06-07T17:30:55.734-04:002012-06-07T17:30:55.734-04:00"But as our liberal tribe has emerged from th..."But as our liberal tribe has emerged from the woods after several decades of slumber, our leaders have increasingly patterned ourselves after the gruesome Hannity." - b. somerby <br /><br />"Can liberals hope to prosper by being this dumb? More generally, consider these points about Walsh’s remarkably low-IQ rant:" - b. somerby <br /><br />"We don’t know why Walsh put “ignored” inside quotes. The word doesn’t appear in the Politico report. (Are we all Sean Hannity now?)" -b. somerby<br /><br />"But we also oppose hacks like Walsh treating liberal readers like fools: For decades, we’ve seen Hannity acting that way. We don’t think liberal “intellectual leaders” should pattern themselves on this man." b. somerby<br />---------------------<br /><br /><br />>>> the above quotes highlight this ethnic attack on walsh -- disguised as a personal one. by associating her with hannity he is hoping his target audience will take the message that she is bad because she has an irish-catholic heritage.<br />-------------<br /><br /><br />“If we had an ounce of self-respect, we’d drive the Walshes into the sea.“ b. somerby<br /><br />>>> this could be emblematic of the whole column as I think he dually meant walsh and “americans with an irish-catholic heritage” for “walshes”...perhaps in the manner of st. patrick with the snakes?<br /><br /><br /><br />“Joan Walsh refuses to tell them such things. That would force her to name the names of her princes, her large benefactors. Gag! People like Walsh have buried this deep, protecting their generous mentors as they stuff bags of dough in their pants. Today, Walsh defends that front-page report on dressage—and drives our IQ to the ground. “ - b. somerby <br /><br />>>> this is more projection at projection central. walsh is not self employed like somerby. he is the one i wonder about getting paid secretly.<br />------------------<br /><br />btw, I think the reasons he makes his columns so unnecessarily long and meandering is to confuse the reader hoping they will get the vibe, the near subliminal emotional based points, without asking too many questions. he must assume he has an audience who will read it no matter what. perhaps his target audience is quite small. he rarely says anything bad about the people who hire the front people (aside from welch) so maybe its just the management people of abc, cbs, nbc, newsweek, time, ny times, wash post etc. which he cares about...and he assumes they will read it through.the scowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-21016716125235495952012-06-07T17:04:48.684-04:002012-06-07T17:04:48.684-04:00Cogent!
Bob's critique is wrong because flip...Cogent! <br /><br />Bob's critique is wrong because flip doesn't consider these folks "leaders."<br /><br />You couldn't make it up!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17547594129817060492012-06-07T16:34:44.232-04:002012-06-07T16:34:44.232-04:00Who says that opinion writers are progressive &quo...Who says that opinion writers are progressive "leaders"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-71344043189224050392012-06-07T11:59:08.383-04:002012-06-07T11:59:08.383-04:00To the extent that our media "liberals" ...To the extent that our media "liberals" take marching orders (get talking points) from the Obama campaign, they may not want to focus on Bain Capital -- it would give a black eye to the financial industry that is funding Obama's campaign. Even Bill Clinton is saying "Don't go there." Why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41124782657799017532012-06-07T11:26:39.862-04:002012-06-07T11:26:39.862-04:00On what planet is the extremely conservative, busi...On what planet is the extremely conservative, business-proxy, ex-lobbyist Haley Barbour a "populist"? I already have serious doubts about Joan Walsh's judgment on many topics, but this statement by her only underscored them.<br /><br />In terms of the failure to discuss Bain, it might be that all these folks are on or hoping to be on Bain's payroll. Or have spouses or relatives who are. Or hope to get on the gravy train of a similar firm or within the larger financial and private equity industries. In addition to not giving a rat's ass about these industries' destructive effects on the middle and working-classes and the poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com