tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post7597765201446964542..comments2024-03-19T06:13:08.345-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Romney and Bain: The errors of Gingrich’s film!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-54371520973701611102012-01-17T10:21:38.532-05:002012-01-17T10:21:38.532-05:00agreedagreedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-76248788163287881572012-01-17T04:19:48.605-05:002012-01-17T04:19:48.605-05:00simply put, bain, as the management of the company...simply put, bain, as the management of the company in question, intentionally underfunded the employee pension plan (they didn't put in the cash to cover the expected liability), instead taking those monies out of the company as dividends/consulting fees. as a result, when the company went bankrupt, the PBGC was required to make up the fund's cash shortfall.cpinvanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32695966543008346972012-01-17T04:13:06.936-05:002012-01-17T04:13:06.936-05:00the "several people" who advised you of ...the "several people" who advised you of the source of PBGC's funding were only partly correct: ordinarily, it does come from premiums levied on companies with defined benefit pension plans, ordinarily. however, if those premiums aren't sufficient to meet the needs, as a consequence of too many underfunded plans of belly-up companies, we the taxpayers end up footing the shortfall, much as we would with the FDIC & FSLIC. this has occured several times since the 80's (when LBO's became very popular), whether this was the case with bain, i do not know.cpinvanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1713176664039224282012-01-16T20:35:27.150-05:002012-01-16T20:35:27.150-05:00You know, you and Bob Somerby make excellent point...You know, you and Bob Somerby make excellent points about how this garbled "film"--which the <i>New York Times</i>, in typical fashion, wrote about today by way of pressing Hollywood liberal feature filmmakers and documentarians about its style and form, rather than substance--will probably have the effect of shutting down all discussion of what Bain and similar private equity firms do, how they operate, what effects they have on job creation and destruction, and, most importantly, how they create very negative outcomes for the workers who lose their jobs and benefits packages, including pensions, but also how such private equity firms benefit from government support and programs in various ways.<br /><br />You and Somerby both note that reporters are really not going to engage with the substance now. I even saw a headline, and then heard on NPR this weekend and again today, how this film may create "sympathy" for Romney. I thought, what on earth? But your comments are making me rethink my question. If this was a plant to get this stuff out there and defuse it, under the ruse of a PAC allegedly supporting Gingrich (who has no chance in hell of being the GOP nominee, let alone becoming President of the USA), it's actually quite brilliant. Now any challenge to Bain's depredations under Romney can be dismissed as a smear or worse, the media won't touch the issue, Obama and the even more timorous Democratic Party officials will probably be too afraid to do so, and a major aspect of Romney's "business" record is off the table.<br /><br />Those Republicans, they really are too much!Pharaonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-18436953622814327522012-01-16T18:59:43.085-05:002012-01-16T18:59:43.085-05:00This is reminding me of Bush's war record stuf...This is reminding me of Bush's war record stuff. Weakly attacked at first, while the press obsessed over Al Gore's suitcoat and sighs, and then dismissed as "old news." The Dems are going to have to up their game, and weave this into a large narrative to make sure it has legs, which is something they've never done in my lifetime. In fact, they haven't been able to do it since FDR "welcome(ed) their hatred." Obama is scared and smart, and might end up using this angle out of desperation, even though the thought of going on the attack makes him shit his pants. But in this case, it isn't just correct policy, in which Obama has demonstrated no real interest, but correct politics, which he does seem to pay attention to, to build an aggressive narrative and drive it home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-48460377153119577232012-01-16T18:38:56.171-05:002012-01-16T18:38:56.171-05:00I still find no reason to believe Bain "loote...I still find no reason to believe Bain "looted" any pension fund during the years Romney was active there. Please show me otherwise if possible, or explain what the term looting means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-58805127800911677782012-01-16T18:32:23.556-05:002012-01-16T18:32:23.556-05:00I like your comment a lot by the way and want to u...I like your comment a lot by the way and want to understand all of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41583476775682841042012-01-16T18:31:43.594-05:002012-01-16T18:31:43.594-05:00Please tell us what "GS" stands for, and...Please tell us what "GS" stands for, and which point of "Bob" is being referred to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-78829866808666245322012-01-16T17:18:40.108-05:002012-01-16T17:18:40.108-05:00That Fortune story doesn't address the compani...That Fortune story doesn't address the companies in the Reuters story albeit it does point out other errors in the Gingrich propaganda film. Not a surprise that a deliberate "hit"piece would not concern itself with factual representation.<br /><br />However, the Reuters story has some problems as well. The PBGC found the GS pension underfunded by $44 million in 2002 but in 1994 when Bain took over from Armco, the pension shortfall seemed to be $120 million. <br />As David in Cal would likely point out (actuary, pension etc) terminating a pension is a much different proposition than calculating the excess liability of the fund on an ongoing basis. It involves calculations of investment returns, mortality rates, final pay, eligibility and a raft of other calculations with a view towards arriving at a fixed $ amount. Similar elements as those used each year, but not quite the same.<br /><br />Bob's point in linking Bain and Romney to the Carl Icahn crowd is a much better one to make since when GS folded is when LTV and Bethlehem both went under and dropped huge pension liabilities on the PBGC. Enough to put the fund in the red overall.Tom Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-77489658373736488352012-01-16T14:07:28.582-05:002012-01-16T14:07:28.582-05:00Readers might care to remember how Bush's nati...Readers might care to remember how Bush's national guard derelictions were laundered by the Dan Rather affair: trivial details, quite possibly planted by the Bush campaign, and quickly shown to be false, took the *entire* story off the table.<br /><br />It didn't help, of course, that yet another hapless Democratic presidential candidate proved himself wholly incapable of going on the attack (had he been reading too many Howler commentaries?), but this right-wing produced and financed "documentary" does have a stench about it.... There was *plenty* they could have reported, highly injurious to Romney, which was true. But they didn't. They reported only that which was easily rebutted, as ten minutes on google would have demonstrated to any interested party, well in advance of making the film.<br /><br />Karl Rove, anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-70024763685716115402012-01-16T12:19:11.626-05:002012-01-16T12:19:11.626-05:00Yes, but this fact-check got there first and it se...Yes, but this fact-check got there first and it seems the Gingrich film got it terribly wrong despite Kessler's wrongheaded conceptualizing:<br /><br />http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/12/the-bain-bomb-fizzles/Steve Rhodeshttp://www.beachwoodreporter.comnoreply@blogger.com