tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post7696556979125672963..comments2024-03-29T06:44:19.414-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Limning Minnesota: Rocking the TIMSS!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-28841085324639866402022-05-31T06:53:40.885-04:002022-05-31T06:53:40.885-04:00Thanks for sharing a great piece of information. I...Thanks for sharing a great piece of information. I visited your website and I really like your website and post also. Keep it up and keep sharing such posts.<br />Assignments and assessments are part of academics for analysis of the potential and efficiency of students. But they put a lot of pressure on the minds of students and therefore sometimes they fail to give appropriate time to their studies and get low grades. This is the reason students seek assignment help brisbane. 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That state adopted a coherent, focused, grade-by-grade math curriculum developed by a team of Michigan State University scholars and led by Professor William Schmidt. Minnesota competed in the TIMSS study and saw its scores jump from mediocre to world-class.<br /><br />While the U.S. continues to rank well below the top-performing nations, Minnesota now ranks fifth in the world, behind only Hong Kong, Singapore, Chinese Taipei and Japan. While U.S. fourth-graders saw a gain of 11 points, Minnesota’s students had a gain of 38 points. Schmidt commented, “Minnesota had more than three times the gain indicated for the United States as a whole. They have left the U.S. behind.”<br /><br />Any state could do what Minnesota did. All it requires is implementing a well-designed, coherent curriculum in mathematics and science. Teachers need to know what is expected and should have the appropriate training and resources to enable their students to reach world standards." Diane Ravitch, "American Children Left Behind", Forbes, 2/11/2008<br /><br />Unlike Ripley, Ravitch tells you where she got her figures and puts them in some sort of context. <br />http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/10/timss-nclb-minnesota-oped-cx_dr_1211ravitch.html <br /><br />Minnesota's successful curriculum was put together by teachers, BTW, not corporate testing companies and researchers paid for by billionaires with a right-wing agenda.Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034269198524567445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-65425183891668000892013-10-30T18:52:02.893-04:002013-10-30T18:52:02.893-04:00Zarkon conflated TIMSS with nothing, my dear Ellen...Zarkon conflated TIMSS with nothing, my dear Ellen. Zarkon did not mention TIMSS. Zarkon did not mention Minnesota except to gleefully anticipate the <strong>lots of white kids</strong> promise to come from BOB.<br />So feel free to call me a troll if I am in return free to point out your idiocy in this particular comment.<br /><br />But that pales in comparison to this:<br /><br />"There are three separate PISA tests, but they were not given in all years, so one cannot average them out over nine years. In 2000, for example, math was not tested."<br /><br />PISA Math was given in 2000. The US posted a score of 493. Poland 470. That is why BOB chose to delete 2000 from his two day earlier proclamation that nine years of data should be used. Including it would mean the US students did not outgain Poland in subsequent years. In fact they lost ground on themselves. In 2009 they scored 487. Poland's student posted 495. The same thing happened in Reading.<br /><br /> But nobody is averaging anything. BOB is attempting to debunk Ripley's selection of Poland by using aggregate gains on the three tests from 2003 to 2009 then comparing the net gain of US students to Poland. On two of the three tests from 2000-2009, the US actually lost ground. On the third, science, which was only given in 2006 and 2009, the US outgained Poland by 3 points, an amount Bob has deemed "silly" when comparing Minnesota math scores to the US average on a test given in the same year.<br /><br />Allow me to say your comment is proof positive why BOB thinks he can get away with changing his standards for measuring data in the course of only a few days and thinks he can invent statistics without his readers noticing. <br /><br />Also allow me to say all this data, including Ripley's, BOB's, and ours is about as meaningful in life as the box score BOB posted from a baseball game in the 1950's.<br /><br />KZ <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5347197369686980022013-10-30T17:38:46.802-04:002013-10-30T17:38:46.802-04:00Or maybe Ripley copied from Diane Ravitch without ...Or maybe Ripley copied from Diane Ravitch without giving credit:<br /><br />http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/10/timss-nclb-minnesota-oped-cx_dr_1211ravitch.htmlEllenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034269198524567445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-80673749115590813832013-10-30T16:50:07.866-04:002013-10-30T16:50:07.866-04:00KZ is conflating the TIMSS test scores with the PI...KZ is conflating the TIMSS test scores with the PISA. Minnesota didn't take the PISA test as an independent country, as far as I can ascertain. Why KZ would do this, except to troll by throwing sand in everyone's faces, I can't say.<br /><br />There are three separate PISA tests, but they were not given in all years, so one cannot average them out over nine years. In 2000, for example, math was not tested. <br /><br />Ripley's narrative is that "Eric" was well prepared for math in Korea because he came from Minnesota and Minnesota's fourth graders had scored particularly well in math when he went to school there. For the purposes of this narrative she switches from talking about the PISA to talking about the TIMSS test, only identifying it as "an international test". She omits to say that not only Minnesotans but all Americans students happened to do better on the TIMSS test for some reason than on the PISA tests (though they were not all that bad on the PISA tests either) because that would spoil her narrative about the peculiar degradation of American education with respect to that of Asia and Finland. So, for the purposes of her narrative that all American students are inferior, she has to ascribe an exceptional (and fictional) superiority to Minnesota over the rest of the USA. -E<br /><br />Thus is pure spin accomplished. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36339646895171492692013-10-30T16:06:14.609-04:002013-10-30T16:06:14.609-04:00Not to mention that "rocked" is a poor c...Not to mention that "rocked" is a poor choice to describe performance on a test.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-75203891585647293772013-10-30T16:05:21.260-04:002013-10-30T16:05:21.260-04:00OMB (Silly Season and Lots of White Kids!)
1) &q...OMB (Silly Season and Lots of White Kids!)<br /><br />1) "It’s silly to say that Minnesota “placed below average” for the U.S., except to set up a good story." BOB 10/30/13<br /><br />2) "Ripley told us how much Poland improved from 2000 to 2006. But how odd! The most recent PISA test results come from 2009. Why didn’t Ripley give us the <strong>full enjoyment</strong> which would inevitably result from making <strong>a full nine-year comparison</strong>?" Bob 9/26/13<br /><br />"In the talented Ripley’s scam-ridden book, “the Polish miracle” (Ripley’s phrase) is said to be a miracle of improvement. But from 2003 to 2009, American students showed more improvement on the PISA’s three tests than Polish students did." BOB 9/28/13<br /><br />It is silly to suggest BOB doesn't know squat about analyzing educational data.<br /><br />In quote #1 he says it is silly for Ripley to state the truth. According to BOB the score of Minnesota was only 2 points lower than the US average. <br /><br />In quote # 2 he tells us you should use 9 years worth of data when you have it.<br /><br />In quote # 3 he uses 6 years of data instead of the 9 he called for only two days earlier in quote #2. Why, you ask? Silly reader. TRIX are for BOB. <strong>Full enjoyment</strong> of 9 years worth of data would have made quote # 3 a bald faced lie.<br /><br />In quote # 3, if it were true, the difference in gain by the US over the Poles is only 3 points. Silly? According to BOB today it is. But it set up a good story then. His.<br /><br />In quote # 3 BOB committed a small factual error in presenting a silly statistic to set up his good story. US gains were not higher in the cited period on the PISA's three tests. They were higher on two of the three tests. They were lower on a third. But by silly amounts according to today's standard. BOB was called on this error by your Zarkonship.<br />So BOB came up with this:<br /><br />4) "American scores improved slightly more on the PISA from 2003 to 2009 than Polish scores did" BOB 10/9/13<br /><br />Quote # 4 is true. By dropping reference to the three separate tests that comprise PISA, and combining the total score gains on tests given during these selected years BOB has created a statistic that is true. It is used by no other person in the whole wide world but BOB. And its truth still hangs by the silliest margin of three points on three different tests given eight times in six years. But it's true! Of course with full enjoyment of nine years of data is is false. In fact using a standard statistic with nine years of full enjoyment data, from 2000 to 2009 US students declined while Poland gained in math and reading. We could use a BOBomagic statistic and add the science test. It allows the US to register a total gain over the period because it was only given twice and the US scores went up the second time. Silly? Yes, but nothing is too silly when the lives of tall tales are at stake.<br /><br />Coming attractions - "To the extent that Minnesota can be ranked number two in math, it’s only because the state has <strong>lots of white kids."</strong> You can't imagine how much our planetary palace analysts are licking their chops over this one.<br /><br />KZ ( Hoping the sixth game last six hours) <br /> <br />KZ <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-47004493385281377522013-10-30T14:06:32.159-04:002013-10-30T14:06:32.159-04:00You can use the standard deviation as a way of see...You can use the standard deviation as a way of seeing whether a difference between two scores is large or small. When the standard deviation is 100, a difference of 2 points is meaningless. Even differences of 12 or 18 points are small compared to the variability in the whole set of scores. <br /><br />Was the point of emphasizing the scores for Minnesota to show that Eric was poorly prepared for math in Korea? Did he struggle? Why would group scores say anything about one student's performance? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-24709227762896806902013-10-30T13:46:58.893-04:002013-10-30T13:46:58.893-04:00Ripley is a locational name denoting a place in Yo...Ripley is a locational name denoting a place in Yorkshire, England. Insofar as before the Reformation Yorkshire (like all the rest of England) was Roman Catholic, it is a Catholic name. Today, York is still notable as a cathedral town. - E<br />Google is your friend: https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/RipleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-84202164413026152702013-10-30T13:33:21.452-04:002013-10-30T13:33:21.452-04:00is ripley an irish name?is ripley an irish name?an american who happens to have irish-catholic heritagenoreply@blogger.com