tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post8253983651074544209..comments2024-03-29T06:44:19.414-04:00Comments on the daily howler: Reading Ripley: Praise for Poland’s poorest kids!<b>bob somerby</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/02963464534685954436noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-17039683874414790572013-12-04T18:01:48.770-05:002013-12-04T18:01:48.770-05:00Have you seen the latest PISA results? Poland mad...Have you seen the latest PISA results? Poland made big progress: reading 518 points - best in EU (ex aequo with Finland & Ireland) - previously 500;<br />maths 518 (best in EU, ex aequo with Holland, Estonia, Finland) - previously 495. So the progress is undeniable, whichever way you look at it. We (I am from Poland) must be doing something right, on the other hand believe, most of people here are not too happy about our educational system...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-19476182703005063522013-11-02T22:44:22.026-04:002013-11-02T22:44:22.026-04:00Trust me, you don't want to be a poor kid in P...Trust me, you don't want to be a poor kid in Poland. I came to US from Poland and know what Im taking about. I am sorry, but us people don't know what is a meaning of being poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-89020484867392613972013-10-11T15:09:02.729-04:002013-10-11T15:09:02.729-04:00You have certainly repeated the description of Law...You have certainly repeated the description of Lawrenceville many times since September.<br />Doesn't it kind of bother you that Somerby did not mention it until last Tuesday? Many of his readers could have used that information a lot earlier. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-5653021029711246262013-10-11T08:13:45.813-04:002013-10-11T08:13:45.813-04:00oops...TWO things very clearly....oops...TWO things very clearly....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-12405968441520281742013-10-11T08:13:09.364-04:002013-10-11T08:13:09.364-04:00As I've said repeatedly, Amanda Ripley got wha...As I've said repeatedly, Amanda Ripley got what she looked for, and frankly, she didn't look for much (other than to write a book about the "Smartest Kids," hype it by claiming she performed "groundbreaking research," and then cash in).<br /><br />Ripley is a charlatan, though to be sure, a "talented," privileged one. Sort of like Wendy Kopp.<br /><br />Ripley has quite an educational background. Ivy League at Cornell. And high school at the expensive, private Lawrenceville School. Current tuition is $53,320, but only $44,100 for day students. But that’s not all. Add in “a required medical fee of $755, and a technology fee of $465.” Parents also have to buy tuition refund insurance. The Lawrenceville School suggests that tuition is really a bargain because the “annual cost to educate a student at Lawrenceville is $70,000.”<br /><br />Its campus is 700 acres. It has its own golf course. It has a 56,000 sq.ft. science building, and a music center, and a visual arts center, and a history center. Multiple dorm buildings with their own dining halls. It has a field house that includes “a permanent banked 200-meter track and three tennis/basketball/volleyball courts.” That’s not all. There are also “Two additional hardwood basketball courts, a six-lane swimming pool, an indoor ice-hockey rink, a wrestling room, two fitness centers with full-time strength and conditioning coaches, and a training-wellness facility as well as a new squash court facility, hosting ten new internationally zoned courts, which opened in 2003.” Not exactly shabby.<br /><br />What is education like at Lawrenceville? Small classes, “intimate...with a maximum of 12 students.” The guiding philosophy is one that “values discussion and debate.” Lawrenceville claims to help its students “develop high standards of character and scholarship” and “strong commitments to personal responsibility.<br /><br />But Ripley uses only 3 students and 1 test (PISA) to generalize about American public education. Amanda Ripley’s own educational past indicates three things clearly:<br /><br />1. She really has no idea what she’s talking about when it comes to public education, and “reform.” She’s an impostor. A poser.<br /><br />2. Ripley may have immersed herself in amenities at Lawrenceville, but she didn't learn very much..<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-42261337841620003902013-10-10T20:23:14.388-04:002013-10-10T20:23:14.388-04:00Well Anon. I hope someone does not correct your Fr...Well Anon. I hope someone does not correct your French like they did another commenter who used Spanish in a post today.<br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-79382346722144554512013-10-10T17:59:44.333-04:002013-10-10T17:59:44.333-04:00You must have been hugging yourself with our goodi...You must have been hugging yourself with our goodie-goodness while you wrote that.<br /><br />Yeah, an intelligent person would find that credible, a 12 year old black kid in Newark, the beneficiary of 30 years of extorting the taxpayers of the rest of the state for "education" that results in 50% drop out rates is suffering from that "trace" of something that happened to some distant ancestor in, what, 1830? And what was that event anyway? <br /><br />Ridiculous and no one believes it. MOre nonsense to extort money from other people and hand it out to teachers, contractors, suppliers, all of whom are politically connected. Those are the only and true beneficiaries.Lionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336249052780481883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-90812204107244698072013-10-10T15:44:31.433-04:002013-10-10T15:44:31.433-04:00In that case, move on.In that case, move on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61436835461498992192013-10-10T15:06:39.245-04:002013-10-10T15:06:39.245-04:00"An ongoing conversation"? Much more lik..."An ongoing conversation"? Much more like the rantings of an old goat standing on a soap box on a street corner who ran out of new things to say years ago.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-23014262427793807632013-10-10T15:01:50.106-04:002013-10-10T15:01:50.106-04:00Well, KZ, I happen to think that questions in an o...Well, KZ, I happen to think that questions in an open combox, even if directed to an individual, are open to the floor.<br /><br />No, you have no need for anyone to pull Teacher1 off you lest he puts you in a vegetative state. You can handle yourself.<br /><br />But I can't resist throwing my dos centavos into the fray.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-41903127000476218192013-10-10T14:57:03.280-04:002013-10-10T14:57:03.280-04:00If you consider this blog an ongoing conversation ...If you consider this blog an ongoing conversation and read more than a single day's post, it is not a non-sequitur at all and CMike was merely pointing that out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36603942606061918242013-10-10T14:53:41.879-04:002013-10-10T14:53:41.879-04:00Are you answering Teacher 1's questions to me?...Are you answering Teacher 1's questions to me? Because if you are "we don't need you to do that."<br />We're sure you are a very nice person although we have never met. You should not take our suggestion about replying as applicable only if you have not previously exited your vehicle. <br /><br />KZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-63365092705901563652013-10-10T14:50:14.768-04:002013-10-10T14:50:14.768-04:00Obviously, you don't know what a non sequitur ...Obviously, you don't know what a non sequitur is. <br /><br />Let me help you out, old timer: it's a statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it. What this blogger posted previous to this post does not change the fact that it is a non sequitur. The blogger mentions low-income students and he mentions "black kids." The only time the blogger mentions "the liberal world" and "R-bombs" is in the last sentence. It's a ridiculous non sequitur because of its lack of context within the post and it's sheer hyperbole masked as a factual declaration.Robert Connellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-40794611583428436292013-10-10T14:35:54.691-04:002013-10-10T14:35:54.691-04:00Trace usually means a lingering sign or evidence o...Trace usually means a lingering sign or evidence of what may have happened before. You know, like a whip leaves scars. Sometimes it can be the absence of something as a result of what may have happened before. You know, like, due to Nazi policy based on racial superiority, there is hardly a trace of the once vast Jewish population in central Europe. <br /><br />Hope you found this helpful. And I hope the government folks in charge of you health care keep you well. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-7571485980908737612013-10-10T14:33:24.864-04:002013-10-10T14:33:24.864-04:00Oh, excuse me. In my non-igmorance, I misspelled M...Oh, excuse me. In my non-igmorance, I misspelled Mr. Sombey's name.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-57047192142542862202013-10-10T14:31:21.974-04:002013-10-10T14:31:21.974-04:00Yes, I thank God every morning that thanks to &quo...Yes, I thank God every morning that thanks to "Mr. Someby" and only because of "Mr. Someby" I am not "igmorant."<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-32453359720245201272013-10-10T14:27:23.157-04:002013-10-10T14:27:23.157-04:00Well, to borrow a oft-repeated phrase from Somerby...Well, to borrow a oft-repeated phrase from Somerby himself to answer your question:<br /><br />"I have no idea. And neither does Somerby."<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-1380847654043797702013-10-10T14:23:49.749-04:002013-10-10T14:23:49.749-04:00Teacher 1, in Question 1 you "seem" ( a ...Teacher 1, in Question 1 you "seem" ( a favorite BOB mind reading word used when he is not accusing others of mind reading) to want me to pass judgement on Ripley's numbers.<br /><br />I said BOB makes a convincing case that Ripley is playing with the numbers in a less than straightforward way, Unfortunately because BOB plays with his numbers in the exact same way he attacks Ripley for playing with hers, I have no reason to believe BOB isn't making everything he writes about Ripley's book up. I haven't read it. <br /><br />I only know what BOB has written. He has cherry picked his numbers. He has presented them falsely When called on it, he issued no correction as he frequently calls upon others to do and instead merely rewords his false claim. He has contradicted himself.<br />When called on it he ignores it and tries to reinforce his same misleading point. <br /><br />Question 2, are US students inferior to their international peers based on 3 major international assessments? No. I could write ten posts to tell you why I have that opinion. I won't. But thanks for asking. <br /><br />KZ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-61682813988509694322013-10-10T13:18:59.675-04:002013-10-10T13:18:59.675-04:00So KZ, did Ripley cherry pick the data or not? Acc...So KZ, did Ripley cherry pick the data or not? According to the three major international assessments comparing educational achievement, are US students inferior to their international peers? Teacher1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83921930398034241682013-10-10T13:09:49.006-04:002013-10-10T13:09:49.006-04:00Well then, it's clear you are not an educator....Well then, it's clear you are not an educator. Thank god Mr. Somerby continues his education meme. If he hadn't, people like you would have stepped into the big pile of crap the school reform movement laid at your doorstep. Because of Mr. Sombey's work, you are not igmorant.Teacher1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-83445282400873063182013-10-10T12:31:39.814-04:002013-10-10T12:31:39.814-04:00Wow, are you racist much or not?Wow, are you racist much or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-36977295371675378502013-10-10T11:35:23.441-04:002013-10-10T11:35:23.441-04:00OMB (Gilded Lies...er Lillies)
When last we left...OMB (Gilded Lies...er Lillies)<br /><br />When last we left BOB twisting test results to prove Ripley twists test results, he was pounding on Poland, or rather pounding on Ripley's praise of Polish PISA takers.<br /><br />Bob hates the book. After a dozen (is the exact number statistically significant?) posts, we all, BOBfan and BOBcritic alike, know that.<br />Even the most ardent BOBcritic such as your Humble Zarkon can see<br />BOB makes a decent case that Ripley plays the game of fudging with numbers to support a narrative on behalf of vague recommendations to improve education in the United States. Unfortunately, Bob does so as well, in a manner which utilizes the exact same technique he went to great lengths to criticize Ripley for using. BOB artificially shortens time periods comparing test results in order to create a disputable fact which supports his narrative. Sadly he did this after he was called out in commentary by yours truly for doing so. This puts him in the category of the adorable Maddow or the deplorable Hannity.<br /><br />BOB, you had fudge the numbers to make this statement back on September 28:<br /><br />"In the talented Ripley’s scam-ridden book, “the Polish miracle” (Ripley’s phrase) is said to be a miracle of improvement. But from 2003 to 2009, American students showed more improvement on the PISA’s three tests than Polish students did."<br /><br />First, the facts don't support this. American scores improved more on only two out of three tests, which snarky Zarky noted in a comment at a later date. But the scores differences are minor, so why quibble, right?<br />Well except you went to great lengths to call Ripley's work a scam two days earlier, on September 26. Here are your own words:<br /><br />"Ripley told us how much Poland improved from 2000 to 2006. But how odd! The most recent PISA test results come from 2009. Why didn’t Ripley give us the full enjoyment which would inevitably result from making a full nine-year comparison?<br /><br />Perhaps you can guess at the answer! These are Poland’s average scores in reading over that nine-year period:<br /><br />Average score, Poland, PISA reading test<br />2000: 479<br />2003: 497<br />2006: 508<br />2009: 500<br /><br />Oops! The six-year gain was 29 points—but the nine-year gain was 21! With a “miracle” to sell, Ripley disappeared the drop in scores on the most recent test."<br /><br />So how did BOB produce his "Howler miracle" to disprove Ripley's "Polish miracle?" Well, two days later he forgot all about his own argument that nine years of test results would be valuable. With a miracle to sell, <strong>BOB</strong>disappeared the <strong>rise</strong> in scores <strong>from</strong> the <strong>first</strong> test.<br /><br />The result of this shell game, in which BOB criticizes Ripley for dropping 2009 then himself drops 2000, creates the Howler miracle.<br />If you use the full nine years, US students did not outgain Polish students on any test. In fact, on two of the three tests, US students lost ground to themselves. <br /><br />All this was pointed out in comments before, but BOB has chosen to ignore that and today restates the Howler miracle with minor, but fudgeable alterations. In this post BOB has disappeared the three separate PISA tests and merged results. Of course 2000 results remain, in BOB's signature phrase, a fact DISAPPEARED:<br /><br />"American scores improved slightly more on the PISA from 2003 to 2009 than Polish scores did."<br /><br />Yes, BOB, if you cumulatively add the improvements from three different tests and conveniently drop that year which creates the nine year trend you found to be critical back on September 26th when ripping Ripley on another point, your statement would be rated Partly True by Politifact standards. If you want to shout and dance over data that shows American kids losing ground to themselves by the standard you yourself advanced? To use your own phrase from this series, readers might think they are getting conned. <br /><br />KZ (Daizabaal to my close friends)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-43641280578828260262013-10-10T09:45:55.700-04:002013-10-10T09:45:55.700-04:00You know, for a guy who insists that others be cle...You know, for a guy who insists that others be clear and succinct, Somerby is sure spending a lot of words and bandwidth on his seemingly never-ending series, while repeating memes he has said for many, many years in exactly the same way.<br /><br />And you know? For all that work and effort he put into it, I still can't see why the publication of Amanda Ripley's book stands as such a threat to public education as we know it today.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-34976492993152194102013-10-10T09:07:14.492-04:002013-10-10T09:07:14.492-04:00"Some of our low income kids are black; their..."Some of our low income kids are black; their country spent 300 years trying to eliminate literacy from this particular group. Lunatic history of that type will in fact will leave its trace."<br /><br />What exactly does that mean? Whats the "trace," exactly? <br />Lionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336249052780481883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8611810694571930415.post-59862569545458306692013-10-10T08:56:22.399-04:002013-10-10T08:56:22.399-04:00Django Unchained was not a documentary, Bob.
B...Django Unchained was not a documentary, Bob. <br /><br />Blacks never read in Africa because there was no written language (in the places in Africa that they came from). Are you looking for a reason why they do so crappy here in New Jersey despite 30 years of getting the lion's share of state education funds? Like these "300 hundred" years inculcated some lack of WHAT?? to read and write?<br /><br />Rural people were always less likely to know how to read and write, probably still are today around the world. People who have no relatives who can read and write are less likely to read and write. The US was never like East Germany, bringing black in and making them sit on leather chairs so dogs could pick up the sent and track them and grilling them about whether anyone had ever shown them an alphabet. The notion that black literacy was brutally suppressed in the US for 300 years is preposterous and that it has anything to do with education tests today is a con job to extort more money from everyone else. More money that can be thrown down a bottomless pit. <br /><br />We could cure cancers for the money we are wasting trying to educate kids in inner city schools here in New Jersey and that is on the heads of the heads of the elites using power to grab that money and direct it to useless wasteful spending.<br /><br />There are plenty of kids who aren't black (or Hispanic) who would be better recipients of the education money. They aren't rich; their parents don't provide them with every opportunity. They won't go to Ivy League colleges. If the money was directed at their opportunities or - in a state with the highest property taxes in the nation - if their parents could keep the money and use it directly to benefit them, the world would be a better place. <br /><br />Right now, its extortion and the gratitude we get for it is the constant threat of violent crime and riots.Lionelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336249052780481883noreply@blogger.com