Ryan tells Lauer, “Read the speech!”

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 2012

With Ryan, this shit never stops: Paul Ryan appeared on the Today show this morning.

Matt Lauer asked him the following question about his fact-challenged convention address: “Would you concede that while some of the things you said were effective, some were not completely accurate?”

“Not in the least,” Ryan bravely said. From there, he proceeded to make another statement which is baldly inaccurate!

First, Ryan instructed Lauer that he should “read the speech.” After that, he plainly misstated what his convention speech said:
LAUER (9/4/12): Would you concede that while some of the things you said were effective, some were not completely accurate?

RYAN: No, not in the least, actually. What they are trying to suggest is that I said that Barack Obama was responsible for our plant shutdown in Janesville. That is not what I was saying. Read the speech.

What I was saying is, the president ought to be held to account for his broken promises. After our plant was shut down, he said that he would lead an effort to retool plants like the Janesville plant to get people back to work. It’s still idle; people are still not working there. Lots of people I grew up with who lost their jobs there still don’t have those jobs there. So my point was not to label him on a plant shutdown. It was, this is yet another example of the president’s broken promises. In 2008, he traveled all around the country making promises that he broke just like the one in Janesville.
“Read the speech,” Ryan told Lauer. After that, he mischaracterized what the convention speech said.

Speaking to Lauer, Ryan gave a false impression about his convention address. He implied that he referred in that speech to a promise Obama made “after our plant was shut down.”

Sorry, that's baldly bogus. In his convention address, Ryan clearly referred to Candidate Obama’s campaign speech in Janesville. That speech occurred on February 13, 2008, well before the Janesville plant shut down.

Here is the relevant text from Ryan’s convention address:
RYAN (8/29/12): President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days. And any fair measure of his record has to take that into account.

My own state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it. Especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that G.M. plant. Right there at that plant, Candidate Obama said, I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years.

That's what he said in 2008. Well as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that's how it is in so many towns where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
Obama’s statement about the hundred years was made in Janesville on February 13, 2008—months before the first announcement that the plant would be shutting down. This morning, talking to Lauer, Ryan gave the impression that he had referred to a promise Obama made after the plant shut down.

“Read the speech,” he courageously said. After that, he flatly misstated what he had said in the speech.

“Read the speech,” Ryan courageously said. He might as well have told Lauer to talk to the hand.

Ryan can’t seem to stop this shit. A question: Will Lauer correct him?

Where do they find these people: Meanwhile, on Today's web site, the program joins Ryan in misstating the chronology of these bone-simple events.

The post was written by Eun Kyung Kim. Below, you see the start of the text, starting with the headline:
Paul Ryan: Obama didn't shut auto plant, but didn't fix it, either
By Eun Kyung Kim, TODAY contributor

Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan is defending parts of his convention speech that have come under scrutiny, including claims that President Obama was responsible for shuttering an auto plant in Ryan’s hometown.

“What they are trying to suggest is that I said Barack Obama was responsible for the plant shut down in Janesville. That is not what I was saying. Read the speech,” he told Matt Lauer on TODAY Tuesday. “What I was saying is the president ought to be held to account for his broken promises. After our plant was shut down, he said would lead an effort to retool plants like the Janesville plant to get people back to work. ... It’s still idle; people are still not working there. Lots of people I grew up with who lost their jobs there still don’t have their jobs there.”

During his acceptance speech last week at the Republican National Convention, Ryan made a reference to a campaign visit that then-presidential candidate Obama made to a GM plant in Janesville, Wis. However, the plant had already been shut down when Obama paid the visit.
“The plant had already been shut down when Obama paid the visit?” Sorry, that’s wrong. Here is the chronology:
February 2008: Obama visits Janesville, makes statements in question
June 2008: GM announces the Janesville plant will shut down by the end of 2009
October 2008: GM announces the plant will shut down sooner, by the end of December 2008
January 2009: Obama takes office
The plant had not “already been shut down when Obama paid the visit.” Meanwhile, we don't know why the Today show's text includes that dot-dot-dot. Watching the tape of Ryan's remarks, there is no sign that any of his remarks have been deleted.

Everybody makes mistakes. Even at the highest levels, our “press corps” makes them in bushels. The topic of the Today show’s error has been fact-checked by a thousand sites.

Hustlers like Ryan rely on confusion as they pile up their “mistakes.”

28 comments:

  1. "However, the plant had already been shut down when Obama paid the visit."
    By Eun Kyung Kim, TODAY contributor


    Right, and candidate Obama was addressing an empty plant and a pile of rusting steel when he made that promise. It doesn't take much brains to become a TODAY Show contributor.

    ReplyDelete
  2. So he was accurate, if somewhat shady in the speech and inaccurate when responding to Lauer? After Lauer had inaccurately told him he was inaccurate in the speech?

    Also, Bob, GM may have announced that the plant would be shut down by December 2008 but it was still producing trucks and Isuzus into April of 2009.

    Mote, beam and so on.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, with a skeleton crew to fulfill the contract with Isuzu.

      Mote, beam and so on.

      Oh, and by the way, please point me to any direct quote where Obama specifically promised to retool THAT plant.

      And interesting how Mr. Ayn Rand thinks Obama and the federal goverment could have stepped in and dictated to a corporation which plants to retool and when.

      I guess "small government" only matters outside of Paul Ryan's congressional district.


      Delete
    2. Dunno, the "this plant" might have something to do with it. Right here we're arguing facts. There's video of Candidate Obama saying this plant, although he gives a conditional. An "if", but the tone and message are certainly scripted to read as a promise. In front of an audience like that, it reads as a vow.

      The point is that Bob, who is such a stickler for fact, either cuts his timeline short or missed a data point. Pedantic persiflage, but a plant that is actually putting out vehicles in 2009 was not shut in 2008. Not arguing that the speech was not deceptive, but that the "fact checker"s have been as, if not more, deceptive than the original comment.

      Show me in the speech where Rep. Ryan blamed Pres. Obama for closing the plant. Ryan even stated that it was slated to be closed when Obama was a candidate.

      You can't. It was about promises unfulfilled. The fact that the fact checkers (called out by our excellent host) pretended that Ryan was lying in order to advance their silliness is a problem. It just gets worse; like the "telephone" game, where someone hears something inaccurate, garbles the message to someone else who hears it inaccurately who confronts the original speaker with something that bears no relation to the original statement.

      This is what Bob has been railing and howling against for years, whether or not it deals with Gore. I was merely informing our host that he had left out an important date in his timeline while shouting j'accuse at those who had done the same. Once he notes it, he will surely update, and I welcome him to delete my comments after the update as they will serve no further purpose. Doubt he will. Delete, that is. Fairly broad strain of integrity through Bob. Could have been a cut and paste error. They happen all the time.

      But when you are dealing with facts, the fact that vehicles are rolling off a line in 2009 when the claim is that the plant was shut down in 2008 creates a certain dissonance.

      Unless production of vehicles does not equal production of vehicles, in which case I can not help you.

      When in the blue hell did I ever "Mr. Ayn Rand" or "small government you" outside of your fevered mind?

      Mote side pocket, beam far rail right back here in the left corner.

      Delete
    3. "Show me in the speech where Rep. Ryan blamed Pres. Obama for closing the plant."

      Right. Ryan was just making small talk when he brought up the Janesville plant in his acceptance speech for the vice presidency at the GOP convention.

      No slam against Obama intended at all, and how dare the entire world take it as such.

      Delete
    4. Again, show me. Pretend I'm from Missouri. I don't care what you heard, I care what was said.

      Fact versus opinion, dude. If the "entire world" wants to pretend that something not said was actually said and "take it as such" then the "entire world" is bone stupid.

      Facts is facts, pigs is pigs and you have no argument.

      Tinkerty-tonk for now.

      Delete
    5. Obama implied, but didn't say, that he would save the plant. Ryan implied, but did not say, that Obama failed the Janesville workers. Politicians have been implying but not saying stuff for as long as I can remember.

      Delete
    6. They always leave room for 'plausible daniabilty.'

      Delete
  3. Quaker in a BasementSeptember 4, 2012 at 5:14 PM

    “The plant had already been shut down when Obama paid the visit?” Sorry, that’s wrong.

    Wrong? How could it be wrong? Ryan said it and he's a smart, honest guy, right?

    And, Anony, the plant was producing Isuzu trucks, not trucks AND Isuzus. It took all of 100 employees to finish off the last trucks--in a plant that once housed 7,000 workers. If that's all you have to hang your hat on, good luck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quaker, I think the "Ryan is a smart, honest guy" spin lasted about as long as it took the guy to give his first nationally televised speech.

      Delete
  4. Here's what Candidate Obama said at his Janesville speech:

    "I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give the assistance you need to retool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another 100 years. So, that’s our priority… I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America, I want it to thrive right here in Janesville, Wisconsin. And that’s the future I will fight for as president of the United States of America."

    Here’s what Ryan said in his speech:

    “A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: `I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year.”

    Read them again.

    The blogger that offered them swears this is conclusive proof that Obama made and broke a promise, and that Ryan spoke the literal truth at the RNC.

    As any fool can plainly see Ryan, quoted Obama verbatim in word and in spirit.
    NOT!

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/03/video-obama-promises-janesville-that-plant-will-thrive-will-be-here-for-another-100-years/

    WTF are we supposed to do with these lost souls on a ship of fools?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Nothing Ryan's speech said about this plant was false. Let's take his statements one by one:

    1. President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. TRUE

    2. Those were very tough days. And any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. THIS IS A JUDGMENT, BUT I WOULD CALL IT TRUE. NOTE THAT RYAN BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO BE FAIR TO OBAMA.

    3. My own state voted for President Obama. TRUE

    4. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it. EVIDENTLY TRUE, SINCE HE WON THE STATE.

    5. Especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory. NOTE RYAN'S ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THE PLANT WAS IN DANGER OF CLOSING

    6. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that G.M. plant. I PRESUME THIS IS TRUE.

    7. Right there at that plant, Candidate Obama said, I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years. That's what he said in 2008. BOB CONFIRMED THAT OBAMA DID MAKE THIS STATEMENT IN FEBRUARY, 2008. TRUE.

    8. Well as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. TRUE

    9. It is locked up and empty to this day. TRUE

    10. And that's how it is in so many towns where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight. I THINK THIS IS TRUE.

    If anyone thinks that any of these 10 statements was false, I invite you to identify the statement and explain why.

    Note that the criticisms of Ryan's comments pretty much involve, not what he said, but what his words were allegedly meant to imply. But, we don't have to guess what Ryan meant to imply. He told us in #10. Ryan meant this item to illustrate that in many towns Obama promised recovery, but there was no recovery. Unfortunately, that's all too true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As usual, you win the award for dumbest thing I've read today. The plant closed under Bush. The Bush government was not there to support it. The plant. Closed. Under. Bush. Obama never said he would re-open the plant if, when he came into office, the plant had been closed down. The plant was closed, because the Bush government was more concerned with killing brown people overseas than helping any people at home. The Bush government was not there to support it.

      You stupid twit.

      Delete
    2. anoggin, can you please tell us specifically which of the 10 parts of Ryan's comment were wrong? Thanks.

      Delete
    3. please. ryan was clearly implying that OBAMA failed the janesville plant somehow -- that he either didn't follow through on his "promise" or that his policies simply didn't work. but obviously if the plant was already closed (or too-near to closure) by the time obama's auto-industry bailout might have helped the plant, then what ryan implied was not true, and he knows it. and so does anyone who's willing to be honest.

      (and that's not to mention the whole successful-auto-industry-bailout forest being deliberately ignored for the janesville tree.)

      Delete
    4. I'd like to propose another set of data:

      Jesus died. People talked to Jesus.

      See what I'm doing?

      Delete
    5. Quaker in a BasementSeptember 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM

      Dave, I'm going to tell you something that might come as a shock. Politicians--even Republican politicians--often line up perfectly accurate statements in such a way as to mislead readers or listeners.

      Believe it or not, they often do this on purpose.

      Let's look at #7 and #8 of your list:

      7) Candidate Obama said, I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years.

      8) Well as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year.

      As you dutifully point out, both statements are true. What you fail to note is that the proximity of these statements to one another leads Mr. Ryan's listeners to a conclusion, one that is misleading.

      Delete
  6. Holy moly, David. So the party which denounces the auto bailout and the stimulus package is now attacking the president which promoted those policies, for not bailing out a factory using the the same stimulus and bailouts they claim to hate and which they insist doesn't really create create or save jobs -- in order to save the jobs they claim the bailout wouldn't save or which shouldn't have been saved because, jeez, that's the free market?

    Where has all the "we built it!" ethos gone? Government is suddenly responsible for not reopening bankrupt businesses? You mean to say that the entrepreneur's responsibility is over once he files incorporation papers? And for that, he counts himself a hero of capitalism? A regular Ayn Rand protagonist?

    You guys are too much.......

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exactly. How does criticism of Obama for not providing federal funds to keep the Janesville plant open fit into Paul Ryan's philosophy of small government.

      Let's put it this way: Suppose GM came to a McCain Administration, or a Romney Administration, in 2009 and said we need massive government help to re-tool and re-open our Janesville factory.

      Would they have gotten it?

      Now suppose the factory was in Bugtussle, Tenn., instead of Janesville, Wisc., in Paul Ryan's district. Would Paul Ryan have voted for the government support to re-open it?



      Delete
  7. David
    Ryan gave this as a specific example of a broken Obama promise to workers.
    It wasn't

    ReplyDelete
  8. Ignore David in Cal. Just pretend he has not spoken. Shunning, I guess you could call it.

    ReplyDelete
  9. The only way that one could not see Paul Ryan's mendacity is if one is a right wing apologist who claims that Ryan speaks the truth from some other dimension where constituents affirmatively express enthusiasm for successful deceptions.

    Fool me once, I'm a fool.
    Fool me twice, I'm a damn fool.
    Fool me three times, kill me.

    To see the "truthiness" in Paul Ryan's speech one must read everything Ryan said as literal. The brain damaged can be this literal for a while. It's difficult for everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I love ya Bob, but have you spent much of your professional career working in a factory? I suspect not. I have worked in manufacturing plants that were "shut down." The employer announced the plant is shutting down. That doesn't mean that very immediate minute, punch-out and clear out your locker. The announcement is made that the plant will shut down in 8 months. Between the announcement and the actual locks on the gates, those 8 months can be considered "shut down." In fact, I worked in shipping/receiving where I had to tell clients exactly that - "sorry, we're shut down, we won't be able to fill those orders." I don't see anything wrong with either of Ryan's comments (Convention &/or Today show), and the difference is so trivial as to be a frivolous distraction. The way I hear the president addressing those auto workers, in their shoes, it sounds like a promise being made, a promise he broke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. (Edit. should be "parts/shipping/receiving".)

      Delete
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