The soul of a rapidly dying culture!

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2012

As captured in one magic sentence: Incredible? Astounding? Beyond all belief?

Which of these terms would you apply?

No one ever believes Cassandra. But the soul of a rapidly dying culture was captured this morning in just one magical sentence.

How emptied out are this nation’s elites? We’ll rest our case on this sentence:

“I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing that interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.”

Surely, you know who wrote those words. But don’t worry!

This next time this life-form appears on TV, Rachel will kiss her ass—hard.

Postscript: The liberal world won’t complain about this.

Just as the citizens of a mythical empire couldn’t see their emperor’s lack of clothes, the folk who devise the scripts for that world can’t see that their culture is dying.

Plus, they bow down to the gods of the guild. Complaining? It just isn’t done!

Also this: Attempting to hold back the deluge, the editors stated a different view:

"Thursday night’s vice-presidential debate was one of the best and meatiest political conversations in many years, showing that real differences on public policy can be discussed with fervor..."

Over their shoulders, the sun is setting, as we can see in that other reaction.

Over their shoulders, the sun is setting. The editors don't know that yet.

48 comments:

  1. It might be easier for liberals to fight for Obama-Biden if our President wasn't also trying to cut Social Security, Bob.

    And that's just one example of how the Overton window is being moved to the right, not just by Republicans pulling it, but by corporatist Dems pushing it.
    ~

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. P.S. That's not to say I don't agree with you, re: Gail Collins. I left this comment at the NYT, just for the halibut:

      This is the very same kind of substance-free criticism of a debate that the corporate media used to install G.W. Bush in office.

      Anyone remember all the nonsense about Al Gore's sighing, which the MSM ran endlessly? (Remember, most viewers believed Al Gore won the debate on substance.)

      Shame on you, Gail Collins. You ought to be fired for this nonsense.
      ~

      Delete
    2. "This is the very same kind of substance-free criticism of a debate that the corporate media used to install G.W. Bush in office." - ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

      >>> substance free yes, but she explained why. i dont know whether she is right or not, but she doesnt believe vp debates are important. if she were to write the same kind of column for a presidential debate, then she would definitely be wrongheaded.


      "Anyone remember all the nonsense about Al Gore's sighing, which the MSM ran endlessly? (Remember, most viewers believed Al Gore won the debate on substance.)" - ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

      >>> she has a sarcastic writing style which sometimes obscures her true meaning. my take was that overall she was downing the people who focused on the importance of style in this debate.

      Delete
    3. As well as questioning the importance of debates, and especially vice-presidential debates in the grand scheme of things.

      And I think she backed up her case by pointing out that Bentsen utterly destroying Quayle -- the one memorable VP debate -- didn't seem to help Dukakis much.

      Delete
    4. Here's a thought. Maybe destroying Dan Quayle didn't help Dukakis much but it may well have stopped Quayle's climb up the political ladder. If we could have A George W Bush become president who is to say Dan Quayle couldn't have become one as well. A closer look at anybody with a shot at the white house is a good thing and is important.

      Delete
    5. Yeah, that's a point, but I also think the Bentsen debate was only part of what did Quayle in.

      Biden was pretty nice to Sarah Palin in their debate, and she is pretty much toast as a national candidate. Wouldn't even enter the field this time around.

      Delete
  2. The soul of a rapidly dying culture!
    SATURDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2012

    As captured in one magic sentence: Incredible? Astounding? Beyond all belief? - b. somerby

    [. . . ]

    “I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing that interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.” - g. collins as quoted by b.s.
    ----------


    >>> somerby leaves out the context of collins remark. she was referring to the near fight in another debate which she described in the paragraph which immediately preceded the “magic sentence”:

    “You think Biden was too feisty? The 2012 record for debate aggression was actually set Thursday night in California, when a uniformed officer broke up a spirited encounter between Representatives Brad Sherman and Howard Berman, who had begun yelling and poking at each other rather vigorously. Perhaps Sherman and Berman were irritated because they are both incumbent Democrats, thrown together by redistricting and California’s new nonpartisan election rules. Or perhaps they’re just ticked off because their names rhyme. During one high point, Sherman grabbed Berman and shouted: “Do you want to get into this?” - g. collins

    >>> somerby is dishonest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To be fair, no, he isn't -- Not about Collins, who has made a profession of not caring, or of merely pretending to care.

      Collins, who has always found substance boring, tedious and has always told us so.

      But she's an Irish Catholic American, so you must defend her to the end, lowercaseguy! Anything else is rank bigotry!!

      Delete
    2. im reacting to this one collins column which somerby dishonestly critiqued. im not giving a general review of her work as a writer or her as a person. im on topic.

      but if you want to argue that way, i would just direct you to somerbys pre-combox version of his site to see his bigotry, explicit and implicit, toward americans with irish catholic heritage, including collins:

      google-

      site:dailyhowler.com irish catholic

      site:dailyhowler.com irish catholic gail collins
      ---

      so if you have irish-catholic heritage, you are just supposed to take it and not respond to bigotry directed at your group?

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    4. must have been a real doozey!

      Delete
    5. hey wheres the case manager guy? pretty witty, i gotta say.

      Delete
    6. Yes, the quote is taken out of context. Baldly and badly. Depressing that TDH wastes his time on Collins, and then can't even shoot straight. And is it really some sign of End Times that a paper would publish an editorial disagreeing with one of it's Op Eds?

      Delete
    7. @anon 1:05

      you say,

      "But she's an Irish Catholic American, so you must defend her to the end, lowercaseguy! Anything else is rank bigotry!!"

      >>> it just occurred to me that the subjects of collins piece and many of the howlers columns over the last week have involved two politicians, biden and ryan, who have some (half) irish catholic heritage. most i didnt comment on at all but of the three or so which i did, i made no direct comments about either of the pols, good bad or indifferent, in response to somerby or any of the other commenters.

      going back a month or so when romney made ryan his vp selection, i did make two or three comments about the deep state of lachrymosity the pick had thrown me into. but thats been it. i dont think ive ever made a comment on this message board about biden.

      Delete
    8. Um, no Mr. Somerby did NOT take Ms. Collins out of context, and I can't believe I have to explain this.
      Mr. Somerby is pointing out that Ms. Collins seems to find a near fight between 2 debaters far more interesting than any substance that might come up in the Vice Presidential debates, can't believe you didn't pick his point up.

      BTW, I'm Irish Catholic and Mr. Somerby's criticism's are spot on.

      Delete
    9. "Mr. Somerby is pointing out that Ms. Collins seems to find a near fight between 2 debaters far more interesting than any substance that might come up in the Vice Presidential debates..." - bobbyk

      >>> then why didnt he actually say that then? instead he left out any mention of the near fight at the other debate which collins was referring to as "that" (in her immediately previous paragraph), and simply quoted collins as saying:

      “I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing *that* interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.” - g. collins as quoted by b.s. [* emphasis mine]

      Delete
    10. "I'm Irish Catholic and Mr. Somerby's criticism's are spot on."

      So you believe, like Somerby, that there is and has been this vast East Coast Irish Catholic conspiracy against "progressive" candidates in the Democratic Party? Led by such kingpins as Chris Matthews, Gail Collins, Maureen Dowd, and Lawrence O'Donnell?

      Delete
  3. While watching the "debate", I thought that people that have been paying attention for the last few years would give the win to Biden.

    By the same token, those souls that were clueless to begin with would end up just as far out to sea as when they tuned in.

    Gail Collins proved my point.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, I think it is pretty clear who "won" the actual debate by the fact that the GOP spinners are only talking about Biden's behavior instead of trying to defend Ryan's positions when he said we should remain in Afghanistan longer, that we aren't sending enough of our own troops into the most dangerous areas, that the 20 percent tax rate cut will magically be made up through economic growth, that the cut will be "revenue neutral" by ending or capping deductions that he won't name, etc., etc., etc.

      Delete
  4. I'll say he took her out of context! I will give Somerby points for linking to her column, but good grief.

    Seems to me that her central points are two-fold:

    1. VP debates have never mattered before, so let's be careful when we analyze this one.

    2. The analysis of this debate seems to focus on style points, rather than what the candidates were saying. Something that Somerby has been harping about since the first Gore-Bush debate.

    And of course, you nailed it "fair person." The THAT that Collins is clearly referring to when she said "nothing that interesting happened . . ." was the near fist-fight that broke out in the Sherman-Berman "debate."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think he did. It seems to me he's pointing out that Ms. Collins seems to find a near fight in a debate far more interesting than, you know, what the debaters are actually debating.

      Delete
    2. "Mr. Somerby is pointing out that Ms. Collins seems to find a near fight between 2 debaters far more interesting than any substance that might come up in the Vice Presidential debates..." - bobbyk

      >>> then why didnt he actually say that then? instead he left out any mention of the near fight at the other debate which collins was referring to as "that" (in her immediately previous paragraph), and simply quoted collins as saying:

      “I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing *that* interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.” - g. collins as quoted by b.s. [* emphasis mine

      Delete
    3. whoops,

      you actually said:

      "I don't think he did. It seems to me he's pointing out that Ms. Collins seems to find a near fight in a debate far more interesting than, you know, what the debaters are actually debating." - bobbyk

      >>> but same response:

      then why didnt he actually say that then? instead he left out any mention of the near fight at the other debate which collins was referring to as "that" (in her immediately previous paragraph), and simply quoted collins as saying:

      “I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing *that* interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.” - g. collins as quoted by b.s. [* emphasis mine]

      Delete
  5. "But don’t worry! This next time this life-form appears on TV, Rachel will kiss her ass—hard." - b. somerby

    assuming bob (very dangerous with somerby) has this dynamic correct, what might account for it or more precisely, bobs perception of it.

    this is no ordinary media blog, run by no ordinary media critic. so in the interests of fairly exploring as many conceivable possibilities as we can, i would direct you to the following howler column from friday and the comment by "a theory":

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-tyranny-of-split-screen-strikes.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You didn't make sense then, and you don't make sense now.

      I would direct you to your medicine cabinet.

      Delete
  6. Bob didn't take her comment out of context. In fact, she says later on that the Ryan-Biden debate was "unremarkable."

    Bob would be taking her comment out of context if she had said this instead: "Even though they don't matter in the end, only the truly apathetic would think that nothing interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let me help you out here.

      Collins clearly said that nothing as interesting as the Sherman-Berman near fight occurred during the Biden-Ryan debate.

      Somerby sliced and diced it out of all context to acuse Collins of saying nothing interesting happened in the Biden-Ryan debate.

      Also, Collins didn't say that just the Biden-Ryan debate was "unremarkable." She pretty much said that all VP debates are unremarkable, and that this one was "in the eye of the beholder."

      Now I do disagree with her on that point. I think Biden's impassioned defense of the American worker came through, but apparently not to the spinners on both sides.

      But her comment itself was quite unremarkable and nothing for Somerby to get his panties bunched up over. But then again, whenever Collins writes anything, Somerby's underwear seems to knot. So this is no surprise.

      Delete
    2. And let me help you out. Somerby is clearly pointing out that apparently Gail Collins finds a near fight far more interesting than anything the debaters might actually be talking about.

      Delete
    3. "Somerby is clearly pointing out that apparently Gail Collins finds a near fight far more interesting than anything the debaters might actually be talking about. " - bobbyk

      >>> then why didnt he actually say that then? instead he left out any mention of the near fight at the other debate which collins was referring to as "that" (in her immediately previous paragraph), and simply quoted collins as saying:

      “I think I speak for all of America when I say nothing *that* interesting happened with the vice-presidential candidates.” - g. collins as quoted by b.s. [* emphasis mine]

      Delete
    4. Well, Bobby, then we could discuss why Gail Collins finds it more interesting for two sitting congressmen to come to near blows with a cop in uniform having to come between them.

      I find THAT pretty doggone interesting. Maybe you and Somerby don't.

      But we'll never know how Somerby compares to the two on his interest scale. He makes no mention of in Berman-Sherman incident that Collins explicitly referred to in the previous paragraph. Somerby simply Etch-a-Sketched that away because he thought he found a sentence he could hang Collins with again.

      And this time, it backfired badly as Somerby does exactly what he has accused others of doing for years.

      Delete
    5. Anon October 13 1:47pm said: "Let me help you out here."

      Please. I can do without the condescending tone, especially since you haven't read either my post or her column very carefully.

      Anon also said: "Also, Collins didn't say that just the Biden-Ryan debate was "unremarkable."

      Where does the word "just" appear in my post? Here is my comment: "In fact, she says later on that the Ryan-Biden debate was 'unremarkable.'"

      Anon also said: "She pretty much said that all VP debates are unremarkable."

      Actually, she didn't say that. Here is Collins saying that the 1976 VP debates were riveting: "the world saw a clash between Bob Dole and Walter Mondale that was so riveting that no one now even remembers who they were running with."

      Anon said: "But her comment itself was quite unremarkable and nothing for Somerby to get his panties bunched up over."

      Yes, it was unremarkable in our current media environment, but Bob's point is that we should expect more from journalists, especially those in the nation's most influential paper. We should expect them to actually care about issues that affect people and that it is clear she doesn't care. Her comment is the equivalent of Marie-Antoinette's "let them eat cake" or Scarlett O'Hara's "war, war, war, fiddle-dee dee." It's evidence of an extremely shallow person who doesn't take her profession seriously.

      I agree. I don't think we should simply accept that.

      Delete
    6. Mysterion, please!

      Bob Somerby took a quote out of context to turn it into something that the writer never said.

      His point was that Collins found the Biden-Ryan debate to be not "that interesting" when clearly she was saying that nothing as interesting as the Berman-Sherman near-fight broke out.

      Whatever your or my personal opinion of Collins and her work is, Bob Somerby took her quote entirely out of context.

      That you can lap up such tactics when Somerby does it, well, it speaks volumes.


      Delete
    7. You've missed my point entirely, Anon.

      Yes, Collins was saying that the Biden-Ryan debate was not as interesting as the Berman-Sherman debate. Fine.

      But she also describes the Biden-Ryan as "unremarkable," which means the same thing as "not that interesting."

      Both instances prove the point I was making above which, tellingly, you did not address: That Collins finds substantive issues boring (fights are interesting, though) and this attitude is reflected in her writing, to the detriment of the public discourse.

      Delete
  7. First time I've ever seen Bob post a quote that was definitely taken out of context. Sir, I think you need to publish a correction, as well as an explanation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @leester

      youre letting him off easy in my opinion.

      this one was particularly obvious, but as to it being the first one of its like, i doubt it. i know ive written a number of column-length comments on this site refuting somerby point-by-point on some of his longer critiques on various columns by dowd and collins. i dont remember how many of the mistakes were blatantly taking quotes out of context because there have been such a myriad of various types of errors. as many as eight or ten "mistakes" in one column.

      you knowingly lie a couple or three times and i become a little dubious of whatever you say. you make a dozen mistakes in a day or two of columns critiquing media people for their lack of competence, the site becomes something other than what somerby says it is. this site is a fraud a 100 times over to me. somerby is either incompetent or driven by a means-justifies-the-ends pursuit of an agenda of his or some other party(s) which he may be working for. it seems obvious to me that he is not incompetent in a general sense.

      in my opinion hes pursuing an agenda under the guise of being an objective media critic. a similar long form bs artist is brooks at the times.

      so anytime i read something by somerby which i happen to agree with, im reluctant to say so because im wondering what i may be missing. but i continue to read him because the media generally and propaganda in particular both interest me.

      Delete
    2. "ive written a number of column-length comments on this site refuting somerby point-by-point"

      No you haven't.

      You've written them. My god, you've written and written them. They are as predicable as the rise of the sun in the morning.

      They've given us a window into your sad psyche. They've made us dearly wish you could find some professional medical help.

      But they just haven't ever refuted anything.

      "in my opinion hes pursuing an agenda"

      It's you friend, with the agenda.

      You see anti- Irish Catholis American bias, not merely in everything Somerby writes, no, as you've scribbled, you've told us you see it EVERYWHERE.

      We're a nation looking perennially for our Irish Catholic scapegoat, you've informed us.

      You've even told us how important the example of Ronald Reagan was in that "theory." The way that not Somerby, but the rest of us see him as an Irish Catholic American scapegoat for the ills of the country!

      So, the kindest thing I can say is that your references to your past "work" on this subject are not something that brings credibility to you.

      Get some help.

      Delete
  8. first, thank you for your concern. i also appreciate your shining a light on past discussions, but your characterizations of them are lacking. heres just one:

    “You've even told us how important the example of Ronald Reagan was in that "theory." The way that not Somerby, but the rest of us see him as an Irish Catholic American scapegoat for the ills of the country! “ - bobbyk

    >>> of course i knew that reagan himself was not catholic by religion, but rather than repeating the whole argument and getting way off topic here, anyone interested can read it themselves with me commenting under the moniker 'lachrymose':

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/08/candidate-ryans-sons-and-daughters-bold.html
    --------


    and here is an example of one of my point by-point refutations of a long somerby critique of a collins column with me commenting mainly as 'lonely eyes' and (accidently) once as 'quickdraw':

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2012/05/gail-collins-cares-and-wastes-time-and.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "rather than repeating the whole argument and getting way off topic here, anyone interested..."

      If repeating it made it any more reasonable, you'd have something.

      You don't.

      No one is interested. Except perhaps professional therapists.

      Delete
    2. Oh, you speak for the whole world now. Isn't that great!

      Hey, why don't you pull you nose out of Somerby's rump and take a deep breath of fresh air. Your brain will appreciate it.

      And I know how hard you are trying to get your dear leader's attention. But face it (after you wipe all the brown stuff off it), he doesn't even read his own combox.

      He, like you, think he is just oh, so clever.

      Delete
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