What does that say about them: In the wake of Joe and Mika's silly op-ed column, we liberals need to get clear on a few basic facts:
Within the political realm, Trumpism got here long before Trump. Many other people were Donald J. Trump before Trump came along.
In 1999 and 2000 (and beyond), Chris Matthews was Trump-before-Trump. Maureen Dowd was also Trump. Because of her dominant role at the Times, no one was willing to say so.
When they spent two years inventing crazy claims by Candidate Gore, the mainstream press corps was Trump-before-Trump. Joe and Mika have been Donald J. Trump pretty much since they went on the air.
We'll grant you this—Trump is even more disordered than these earlier Trumps. In effect, he's the 800-pound, poo-flinging Sasquatch of the Trumpist world.
That said, the others were Trump before Trump. Having established that point, here's the ugly fact about our tribe:
Until the 800-pound Sasquatch arrived, we were simply too lazy and dumb to see the Trumpism around us. They were eating our culture alive. We were too dumb to see this.
(The press corps never said that Gore was bleeding from a face lift. Until the statements get that dumb, we're too dumb to notice.)
Joe and Mika are grasping circus clowns, not unlike Donald J. Trump. Their column today is childish and silly, as their work frequently is.
When Trump announced in 2015, they worked and slaved and pandered and fawned to the greatness of their friend. Trump had already been the nation's Birther King for four gruesome years at that point.
What kinds of people would fawn to Trump four years into that reign? Duh! The kind who wanted their ratings to climb so their fat bloated salaries would follow! Here's what this silly, ridiculous pair has phonily written today:
JOE AND MIKA (6/30/17): We have known Mr. Trump for more than a decade and have some fond memories of our relationship together. But that hasn't stopped us from criticizing his abhorrent behavior or worrying about his fitness. During the height of the 2016 presidential campaign, Joe often listened to Trump staff members complain about their boss's erratic behavior, including a top campaign official who was as close to the Republican candidate as anyone.Really? The chronology breaks down like this:
They met Trump in maybe 2005. In 2011, he turned himself into the Birther King.
Four years after that, in 2015 and early 2016, they fawned to him as few others did. Apparently, something "stopped [them] from criticizing his abhorrent behavior [and] worrying about his fitness" at that particular time.
It isn't just Joe and Mika. We've rarely seen as much pious hypocrisy as Anderson Cooper displayed last night. Consider this heartfelt exchange with Jeffrey Lord, who had an especially unhelpful night:
LORD (6/29/17): Everything we're talking about tonight has in a sense been litigated already. We had the election. This may be the latest episode, but these episodes have been had many times during the campaign. This discussion was had and he won the election.Inspiring! Unfortunately, Cooper did serial interviews with Candidate Trump in which he basically functioned as Donald Trump's caddie and pool boy. Now that the nation is reaping the whirlwind, he's decided to stand up and be decent.
COOPER: Right. But that doesn't make it right.
LORD: I'm not saying it's right.
COOPER: I mean, when somebody says something disgusting, you know, I think it is incumbent on decent people to stand up, point it out and say, "You know what, this is not normal."
What was he doing back then?
The press corps is crawling with people who have chosen to profit off Trump's disordered behavior. The tabloids made money off him back in the 1980s. In 1990, Diane Sawyer scored the interview with Marla Maples and asked her if sex with the Donald was the best she'd ever had.
Starting in 2004, NBC scored off his goony entertainment show. When he finally threw his hat in the ring, our biggest stars threw their withered souls away in pursuit of the ratings gains which occurred when he went on their programs.
Joe and Mika were among the worst. They're among the worst today, even after they've flipped.
Our tribe was too dumb to see what was happening within our discourse until the 800-pound Sasquatch arrived. In particular, we were too dumb to see the way our leaders were conning us as they accepted all the Trumps who arrived on the scene before Trump.
Matthews was Trump; Dowd was Trump. Chait and Marshall and Robinson simply weren't willing to tell you.
Rachel Maddow even tried to sell us Greta Van Susteren! For all those years, Greta had been Fox's designated enabler of the deranged Birther King. She and Rachel were drinking pals!
Our tribe has been conned for decades now. We've been played by the likes of Mika and Joe. It seems we're too dumb for this game.
A final point about Trump: Donald J. Trump seems to be highly disordered. We would assume that he is some form of "mentally ill."
If so, that's a terrible problem. But it's also a very serious matter.
It should be discussed in a serious way. Yesterday, Joe and Mika, but especially Mika, were just throwing their noise all around.
(By the way, was Donald J. Trump abused as a child? Is that a possible explanation for his disordered behavior? As caring, empathetic liberals, would we know how to tell? How to care? How to stop berating him on a moral basis once we've said he's mentally ill?)
Joe and Mika aren't super-serious people. Mika is very poorly suited to be a political pundit—unlike, for example, Kirsten Powers, who was especially sharp on Cooper's program last night.
(Much sharper than Ryan Lizza, who is, to our surprise, being pushed beyond his depth by his reactions to Donald J. Trump and to those who defend him.)
As is the case with Comey the God, Joe and Mika only seem serious when they're compared to the very large beast who's currently thrashing around. Did you catch them back in their "Bickersons" days? They were a version of Donald J. Trump years before Trump came along.
They were great pals with the Birther King. What does that say about them?
I agree with a pundit who explains that Trump is trying to change the rules. Under current rules, media and Democrats can say the most gross things about a Republican President, and the Republican isn't supposed to reply on their level. But, criticism of Obama wasn't allowed. It was racism.
ReplyDeleteTrump is (according to this analysis) intentionally not following the old rules. This may or may not be smart policy, but it isn't a sign of mental illness.
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The column I was paraphrasing is at http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/president_trump_is_changing_the_norms_that_empower_his_media_antagonists.html
ReplyDeleteAs someone called an "American-hater" and someone who "loves Saddam Hussein", for being against the Iraq War (which cost $2+ Trillion and kicked-over the hornets nest in the Middle East), allow me to offer a hearty "Go fuck yourself, " to you, the lying propagandists (like the guy who wrote your link) in the corporate media, and all other Conservatives.
DeleteYou know, it's very interesting to read David in Cal's comments. He's unfailingly polite, even when other commenters respond very harshly to him. He also seems to parrot superficial right-wing talking points without ever getting too into-the-weeds, or truly engaging with anyone's substantive argument.
DeleteMaybe I'm wrong and have missed him doing what I say he doesn't do. In any event, it just seems like it might be useful to do some sort of Turing test to see what's there with him.
Re: David in Cal
DeleteDo you think he's a liberal plant, trying to make Conservatives look stupid (like the old Colbert character)?
Honestly, I get a "robot" vibe. If he's a liberal plant, the author is playing a very long game.
DeleteOK, here's a test for David.
DeleteStart with this sentence:
He wondered if the mechanics fixed the cars.
We can ask:
How many cars did he wonder if the mechanics fixed?
Why can't we ask:
How many mechanics did he wonder if fixed the cars?
The thought makes sense, so why can't we express it without circumlocution?
If we fail this test does that make us robots too?
DeleteJonny - I agree that I sometimes fail to truly engage someone's substantive argument. OTOH most responses to my posts are not substantive. E.g., I don't see any substantive argument refuting my post above. But, I'll defend my post anyhow
DeleteIt seems to me that the opposing argument is that Trump behaves differently from other Presidents, so he's insane. I find this idea wrong and threatening. This seems like a totalitarian idea. Do we all have to behave the same or else be judged insane? I certainly hope not.
D in C
DeleteTrump isn't insane because he behaves differently. He's insane because he's quite mad.
D in C "But, criticism of Obama wasn't allowed. It was racism."
DeleteJohn Kerry was pilloried for asking for Swiss cheese on a Philly cheese steak.
Barack Obama was raked over the coals for days for asking for Dijon mustard on his cheeseburger.
What planet have you been living on?
David, Trump is insane because he is out of touch with reality. He cannot distinguish truth from his own lies. His ego is so fragile he cannot acknowledge reality. He cannot regulate his own moods or control his impulses and he cannot establish normal relationships with others. That makes him unfit to be president.
DeleteD in C - at the Republican convention the audience - egged on by speakers - chanted "lock her up" about Clinton. Trump constantly, up to the present, as referred to her as "crooked Hillary." (He called Cruz "lying Ted" and insulted the female republican candidate as being physically unattractive. One problem in addressing this is that Trump's assaults against truth and decency are overwhelmingly over the top. The degree that Trump gratuitously insults his adversaries, with vulgar, bizarrely untruthful epithets, at least in my view, but apparently not in yours, is bringing down into a gutter level. FDR was attacked - can you imagine him behaving like this new POTUS. It is really depressing that he was elected. I have noticed whenever I have responded to you substantively, you just walk away. Your arguments are sophistical, truth-distorting and lame.
DeleteDavid in Cal,
DeleteIs that because you weren't grossed out during the criticism of Obama? Or was it because five months in to the Obama's Presidency, the right-wing was freaking out about him telling the press that the correct amount of air in the tires of your car saves gas?
"I don't see any substantive argument refuting my post above"
DeleteYou can't argue with someone (like yourself), who does not argue in good faith, and instead makes-up his own reality out of whole cloth.
Just the other day, DinC rushed on over to this progressive blog to inform us ignorant liberals that "There is no evidence that the ACA is, on net, saving lives.".
DeleteYou have to step back and marvel at the ignorance of that assertion based a faulty interpretation of a statistical blip. Taken to its logical conclusion, DinC seems to be saying having access to reliable health insurance is irrelevant. DinC is retired and we are all paying for his reliable Medicare insurance and I would bet my house that DinC makes good use of it.
There were a number of serious, polite and substantive responses to that bit of bullshit DinC dropped in the punch bowl.
For example,
***
Anonymous June 27, 2017 at 8:41 PM
Does it seem fair to you to assess the results of a program before it is fully implemented? Does it seem right to assess benefits of preventive care after only one year when such benefits accrue at the end of the lifespan? The recent decrease is being attributed to opiate abuse and increased suicide rates, from what I've read. If you were really an actuary you would not only know that, but you wouldn't be expecting definitive results from ACA after only one year.
***
All of the responses were thoughtful and greatly appreciated, however, I knew instantly Comrade DinC would ignore them.
Not a single response from warped twisted troll DinC. That's because DinC is a fucking troll and wasn't able to find a Breitbart or National Review article rebutting the comments.
Check back in a few days or months and DinC will post the exact same ridiculous claim and act like nothing happened.
Nice. Any politician who says they hope all Conservatives die in a fire, will get no criticism from David in Cal.
DeleteIn his defense, based on their ideology, there is no substantive argument against it.
AC/MA -- I agree with you that "Trump's [verbal] assaults against truth and decency are overwhelmingly over the top. The degree that Trump gratuitously insults his adversaries, with vulgar, bizarrely untruthful epithets is bringing down into a gutter level."
DeleteGeorge W. Bush stood above the crass criticisms from Democrats and media. That was his style. Trump's style is to attack his critics with even uglier crasser criticisms.
I don't like Trump's verbal style, but IMHO it matters much less than his actions. So far, I have been pretty happy with his actions as President.
BTW AC/MA, Trump's crudeness and crassness seem to be working. That approach helped him defeat a strong Republican field and defeat a Democrat with many advantages.
DeleteAnonymousJuly 1, 2017 at 11:42 AM -- It's conceivable that Trump's tweets may be calculated, rather than the result of uncontrolled impulses. Trump understands public relations a lot better than you or I do. He may be intentionally trolling the media.
Wishful thinking.
DeleteDavid in Cal,
DeleteHillary as President would have made you happier. She was the least corrupt major-party Presidential nominee in at least 5 decades.
David in Cal,
DeleteYou sound like a George W. Bush supporter, two years before they forgot who he was and got themselves fitted for tri-cornered hats.
DinC,
DeleteCame for the failed economic ideology, stayed for the tales of sexual predation.
I tried to make the same point about Diamond Dan (Rather) after he wrote some essay about how awful Trump is as President. Because I remember way back when Dan Rather was pretty big, and back then he did an interview with Donald Trump in which he started "Donald Trump might run for President and he easily have $100 million of his own money to campaign with." and then proceeded to do a gushing ET type interview about how nice Trump's house is, and look at this pool and gee Mr. Trump you sure are rich...at which point I quit watching.
ReplyDeleteI would say that even that, perhaps 20 years ago helped to make Trump President because it put in the minds of a few million viewers that "Trump is a great man, and would make a great President." As such those seeds of Trump support, Trump approval were planted a long time ago and were hard to uproot.
I'm not a fan of Morning Joe, but this is an oversimplification:
ReplyDelete"The chronology breaks down like this:
They met Trump in maybe 2005. In 2011, he turned himself into the Birther King.
Four years after that, in 2015 and early 2016, they fawned to him as few others did. Apparently, something "stopped [them] from criticizing his abhorrent behavior [and] worrying about his fitness" at that particular time.
It isn't just Joe and Mika...."
They did some fawning, but they also leveled much criticism against Trump. One of the strongest pieces of writing I saw after Trump's "second amendment" statement was Scarborough's opinion piece in the Washington Post. And that wasn't the only time he and/or Mika was critical of Trump.
Trump is insane because he is out of touch with reality.
ReplyDeleteThis popular claim is ironic, because Trump's critics are demonstrably out of touch with reality. The proof is all the false slurs that his critics believed. Here are three examples:
Remember the articles asserting that Trump lied when he said the FBI Director had told him on 3 occasions that he was not under investigation? Comey specifically confirmed Trump's state when he testified before the Senate.
Then there are all the predictions of imminent resignation or the imminent resignations of people close to him, which never pan out.
Just last week the NY Times and the AP corrected an earlier false report that the Russian influence on the election had been agreed by 17 separate agencies.
"Trump's critics are demonstrably out of touch with reality", says the guy on the internet who wrote "There is no evidence that the ACA is, on net, saving lives.".
DeleteAnon -- Yes that was a crazy belief. But, it wasn't reported as fact by leading media the way leading media reported the crazy belief that the link between Russia and the election was confirmed by 17 intelligence agencies.
DeleteRobert - Please link to the study that you claim shows that my statement is wrong. You can't because there is no such study.
Despite the hundreds of claims by the corporate-media, there's no study to show that Trump voters aren't bigots.
Deletehttp://annals.org/aim/article/2635326/relationship-health-insurance-mortality-lack-insurance-deadly
Delete"A mounting body of evidence indicates that lack of health insurance decreases survival, and it seems unlikely that definitive randomized, controlled trials can be done. Hence, policy debate must rely on the best evidence from observational and quasi-experimental studies."
The ACA reduced the number of uninsured by 13 million people.
DeleteBTW, David, don't forget to put your fingers in your ears and repeat, "Nah, nah, nah, I can't hear you," to make yourself think you're not wrong.
Delete"COOPER: I mean, when somebody says something disgusting, you know, I think it is incumbent on decent people to stand up, point it out and say, "You know what, this is not normal.""
ReplyDeleteLike Cooper did every time the disgusting Kathy Gifford said disgusting things on news network CNN's New Year's Eve program?
You don't understand the difference between a light hearted New Year's Eve program and a "news" show? Or did you mean how the rethuglican Faux Snews stepped up bravely to denounce Limpball, Insanity, and Nutz and Friends, IshitmypantssoIwontgetdrafted Nugent, and the ever popular grifter Palin when they said disgusting things? Is that what you mean?
DeleteKathy Griffin and her locker room talk. What a hoot!
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ReplyDelete1) Love Spells
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Bob Somerby: “By the way, was Donald J. Trump abused as a child? Is that a possible explanation for his disordered behavior?”
ReplyDeleteUnlikely. Loss of their father Fred’s love could easily help explain the decline of Donald’s older brother Freddy into alcoholism (from which he died), but second son Donald was the favorite* and helped write his father’s will which excluded Freddy’s wife and children — though Donald had promised them their medical bills would be covered including for Freddy’s son with cerebral palsy. (So he lied, Bob. He knew what that will contained; he helped write it; he lied.)
* As demonstrated by dad Fred repeatedly bailing Donald out of all his business failures. More: the one personality disorder most attributed to Donald J. Trump has been “narcissistic” — which is marked by extremely high self-esteem, not the sort of low self-esteem that results from abuse.
One survey says that results from excessive parental praise, being “overvalued”. The author summarizes: “Parental warmth doesn't predict [a child’s narcissism]. Parental narcissism alone doesn't predict it. But parental overvaluation alone does predict it.”
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