MONDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2017
Back to the Post's first report: We're glad to see that Leigh Corfman went on the Today show this morning to describe her alleged encounters with Roy Moore in 1979, when she was 14.
Corfman seemed extremely sensible and sane. As a general matter, it's much better to be able to see a person who is making a claim against somebody else, although a person's demeanor isn't an infallible guide to the truth.
We're glad that Corfman did this. That said, let's ponder an important question: how quickly should someone be believed if she makes an accusation?
In the past few years, the gods have sent dramatic examples of a basic fact—sometimes, people make highly dramatic accusations which are flatly false.
That said:
No matter how many times this happens, many people seem inclined to believe the next accuser, and to do so instantly, full freaking stop. This phenomenon played out two Fridays ago, when the Washington Post published its initial report about Corfman's accusation.
Should Corfman's report have been believed with no further questions asked? Should other people have been assailed, that very day, for withholding instant belief?
Corfman seemed very sane today. That said, some accusers aren't. First at Duke, than at UVa, we've had dramatic examples of this basic fact. With apologies, how could anyone know, on that first day, that Corfman might not turn out to be the next such accuser?
We're inclined to think that Corfman isn't the next such accuser. But how was someone supposed to know that on the very first day, especially when she hadn't told her story in a forum where other people could evaluate her demeanor?
We can imagine two possible answers. We'll look at them tomorrow.
Somerby has gone the opposite way, refusing to believe an accuser even when there is considerable evidence and strong likelihood the accusation is true. That's because he insists on absolute proof, which is neither the legal standard nor the common sense approach used when people decide who to believe. Refusing to believe anyone because there have been false accusations in the past, or because there is always the slim possibility of error, is no way for society to function. It is pretty much immobilizing for an individual too. In Somerby's case, it leaves him siding with a miscreant who shouldn't hold office, appearing to defend indefensible behavior.
ReplyDeleteSomerby claims to believe Corfman now because he has seen her and she appears credible. That's a ridiculous way to decide which accusations are true. But maybe he needs some excuse for walking back his previous position.
In the meantime, it appears that Al Franken's accusers are politically motivated frauds. Not a word from Somerby about them. Why not?
Somerby actually stated in previous posts that he found Corfman's story (as published in the WaPo) "credible". I'm glad that Ms. Corfman's demeanor on TV furthered her credibility for Somerby.
DeleteI understand your views, Anon 4:26. My opinion is that Somerby tried to stave off what he saw as a "rush to judgment", but he did so by spending a bit too much effort defending the dating habits and predilections of 32-year old Roy Moore (Somerby never doubted those stories, interestingly. ) And in the process went overboard in his denunciation of the usual subjects.
This was, for me, his worst excess of this Moore business:
"We can't beat them at the polls, so we pray pray pray pray pray that we can get them locked up! Oh please please please please please please please! Please let us helpless liberals get The Others arrested!"
He undermines the reasonable point he was trying to make with this kind of thing.
"common sense approach used when people decide who to believe"
Deleteanother way is to use stereotypes as a useful heuristic. welp libs have been complaining about that for 50 years, so the only acceptable choice is to be pedantic. unless its a lib then we can give them the benefit of the doubt.
yeah not going to fly man, libs have been crying wolf for way too long to pull this off.
Ugh, Bob. As a commenter on a previous post said: This game isn't fun anymore.
Delete"Somerby claims to believe Corfman now because he has seen her and she appears credible. "
DeleteWhat else must we do? What other way is there?
Believe the hysterical types on the TV news?
I'm still a little confused about why -- if she was uncomfortable -- she first let him undress her. And if he even knew her real age to begin with.
Rude questions, I know. And where btw is Gloria Allred and her client?
A week ago she was the toast of MSNBC. But now -- after her disastrous Wolf Blitzer interview where she refused to directly vouch for her client -- she's nowhere to be found.
After all, isn’t the jury supposed to decide on the physical evidence and the credibility of the witnesses?
DeleteHow else can we convict (or exonerate)?
Why don’t the victims speak up right away instead of waiting for years or decades?
Could it be because the perp is frequently a powerful figure and the victim is not?
"Could it be because the perp is frequently a powerful figure and the victim is not?"
DeleteWhere are all the fans of police-profiling, to tell us what to do next?
Off topic (that is beating a dead horse): welcome to our world, Germany. http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-germanys-political-shock/a-41447255
ReplyDeleteThe accuser shouldn't be believed or disbelieved but the accused should be given the presumption of innocence until there is strong evidence. There is photographic evidence of Al Franken's victim. She wasn't "in on" the abuse against her.
ReplyDeleteYes, she was, according to Franken’s military escort, who were there. She just closed her eyes.
DeleteWhatever. But it's fun to watch the MSNBC crowd try to absolve him of the same requirement to resign that they're immediately demanding of Moore.
DeleteIt isn't fun at all. It's grotesque that you think it's fun. What is more important is that the national Republicans (McConnell, et al) are calling for him to resign. Trump is silent, uncharacteristically. Well, Donald, that is. Ivanka sees a special place in hell for child molesters. Who cares what MSNBC thinks? They're just a crowd of brain-dead liberals.
DeleteYeah. A classic case of groping. Approach with grasping fingers, then turn around and leer into a camera. They all do it.
DeletePuerto Rico has no power because our ketchup steak eating president doesn't like their woman official. Maybe the problem in the culture isn't with believing women too much.
ReplyDeleteA couple of questions--
ReplyDeleteShe said she started feeling uncomfortable when he began to touch her, and then wanted her to touch him. But he'd already supposedly partially undressed her.She said nothing to him about THAT part?
Has anyone ever asked her if he KNEW that she was 14? Did she tell him outright? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.
Also, since when is this, if true, "child molestation"? Chris Hayes utters this term with such relish.
Yeah, why didn't that 14-year old act like a 32-year old?
DeleteAnd since when did anyone think of a 14-year old as a child?
yeah but roy moore is a heterosexual male who is attracted to fertile and nubile teens, just like hundreds of millions of pornhub users. this association clearly means he can't resisted sexually assaulting minors. it just makes sense, thats what perverts do!
DeleteListen to On Point on wypr.org, Bob.
ReplyDeleteWhenever I'm been hired as a Hacker i typically only take jobs that I find somehow original, challenging, or especially helpful to the community. I've never wanted to sit around defending some video game company's source code from network intruders - I prefer to help nonprofits, private investigators, government contractors, and other traditionally underserved populations.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd rather match skills against the best in the field of state-sponsored hackers engaged in economic espionage than put some kid in prison for pranking the phone company. When a company tries to hire me, the first question I ask is: "Who is this going to help?" I know I'm well-known but i always try to avoid people thinking I'm proud or making Many individual think its only the big companies that can hire me, fine, here is my mail: compositehacks@gmail.com anybody can hire me. I'll do your job perfectly
Whenever I'm been hired as a Hacker i typically only take jobs that I find somehow original, challenging, or especially helpful to the community. I've never wanted to sit around defending some video game company's source code from network intruders - I prefer to help nonprofits, private investigators, government contractors, and other traditionally underserved populations.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd rather match skills against the best in the field of state-sponsored hackers engaged in economic espionage than put some kid in prison for pranking the phone company. When a company tries to hire me, the first question I ask is: "Who is this going to help?" I know I'm well-known but i always try to avoid people thinking I'm proud or making Many individual think its only the big companies that can hire me, fine, here is my mail: compositehacks@gmail.com anybody can hire me. I'll do your job perfectly
When someone makes an accusation, it should be accepted, and not dismissed out of hand. If it is a "he said, she said" issue, then judgment is impossible. If, because of the first accusation, others make the same accusation, and investigation supports those claims (they were where they said they were when they said they were, etc.) then one can make preliminary judgment. In the case of an election, more is not needed. In a court of law, much more might be needed.
ReplyDelete