The criminalization of everything: At The Atlantic, Caitlin Flanagan offers a fascinating piece about the alleged decline, and vulnerability, of "leftism."
It's built around the experiences and world view of her (now) twenty-something son.
According to Flanagan, her son, and all his friends, were "progressive Democrats, with the full range of social positions you would expect of adolescents growing up in liberal households in blue-bubble Los Angeles." Here's what happened next:
FLANAGAN (8/9/18): The boys graduated from high school and went off to colleges where they were exposed to the kind of policed discourse that dominates American campuses. They did not make waves; they did not confront the students who were raging about cultural appropriation and violent speech; in fact, they forged close friendships with many of them. They studied and wrote essays and—in their dorm rooms, on the bus to away games, while they were working out—began listening to more and more podcasts and lectures by this man, Jordan Peterson.We recommend Flanagan's essay. Before she's done, she discusses the flap surrounding 30-year-old Sarah Jeong, who was recently named to the New York Times editorial board.
We'll probably discuss the hiring of Jeong at some future date. For today, we'll only say this:
The "policed speech" to which Flanagan refers may be part of the "criminalization of everything" to which we referred this morning. We have no particular knowledge or experience concerning what is currently happening on campuses, but we'll note that while many people discussed Jeong's alleged racism, no one has discussed her possible dumbness, and no one has asked why the relentlessly brain-dead New York Times seems to be assembling such a youthful and inexperienced editorial board.
Could "policed speech" really be part of "the criminalization of everything?" Our liberal tribe has been exceedingly dumb over the past (let's say) thirty years. Sadly but inevitably, we may be too self-impressed as a group to be able to see this.
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There's no leftism whatsoever in lib-zombeism.
ReplyDeleteBefore, it was characterized mostly by obsession with identity politics. These days it's TDS, neo-mccarthyism, and loyalty to their zombie death-cult.
Where's "leftism" in that?
Mao, which tastes better, novichok or polonium-210?
Delete@4:54, and how, dear dem-spammer, is your liberal bosses' pedophile sex ring going? Are you still servicing their customers?
DeleteKeeping in mind that every Right-wing accusation is a confession, that 6:57 AM post is an eye-opener.
DeleteGreat piece here, by Lee Smith, on the problems in the print media.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/238195/zuckerberg-public-enemy-no-1
Somerby is exaggerating when he pretends everything is a crime. It obviously isn't.
ReplyDeleteSomerby doesn't seem to know what takes place on college campuses, especially in California. Calling us "blue bubble" doesn't mean everyone is alike.
Looking forward to some specifics but not sure what equivalence he is going to find between treason and anything that happens on a campus.
Somerby quoted Caitlin Flanagan re: "blue bubble."
DeleteNot sure how you came up with the conclusion you did.
Try this: "Could "policed speech" really be part of "the criminalization of everything?" Our liberal tribe has been exceedingly dumb over the past (let's say) thirty years. Sadly but inevitably, we may be too self-impressed as a group to be able to see this."
DeleteFlanagan says this:
ReplyDelete"...all of them like him [her son]: progressive Democrats, with the full range of social positions you would expect of adolescents growing up in liberal households in blue-bubble Los Angeles."
What are those social positions? Odd, that the author engages in what amounts to an "Otherization" of liberal households in Los Angeles: they apparently are all so typical and similar that they can be treated as an undifferentiated mass. Exactly what Somerby argues against when it comes to conservatives. And while we're at it, the author manages to use the terms "liberal", "progressive", and "Democrat" in the same paragraph as if they are interchangeable. She also throws in "left" later on. (Turns out the young men voted for Hillary).
She also says:
"they were exposed to the kind of policed discourse that dominates American campuses."
No examples given. Just the blithe assumption of fact, like someone stating that the sun comes up in the east, that such "policed discourse" dominates campuses.
And the author is discussing her own son, among others. So hers was one of those liberal households in blue bubble LA? She seems oddly detached about that. Perhaps her parenting skills or her grasp of liberalism were faulty, since her son seems to have questioned and even rejected what must have been her political tutelage. It is therefore rich for her to accuse the amorphous "left" of various things as if she weren't in some way responsible herself for her son's upbringing: "What they were getting from these lectures and discussions, often lengthy and often on arcane subjects, was perhaps the only sustained argument against identity politics they had heard in their lives."
So, Flanagan's thesis is that the left is dying because Jordan Peterson has attained a certain level of popularity? And her "evidence" is that her son became interested in him? That doesn't seem like solid reasoning.
ReplyDeleteJordan Peterson is a hero among the incels and he has expressed support for the idea of assigning women to service men who are unable to find mates, so that they don't get angry and shoot people in public places. Why wouldn't he appeal to young male college students, especially those without girlfriends, who look around and think everyone is sexually active except them?
DeleteI teach in the blue bubble of California. I have never talked about or encouraged "identity politics". That's probably because I teach specific subjects, such as statistics, or learning theory, or cognitive psychology. Others on my campus teach classes on economics, mechanical engineering, viniculture, zoology, calculus, and so on. I doubt they are teaching identity politics either.
ReplyDeleteI would never present anything by Jordan Peterson in a psychology class. He is a charlatan in my professional opinion. He is not good for our field and not doing sound work, but has figure out how to use psychology to make money by manipulating people's anxieties. Most psychologists know how to do this but don't do it, because ethics and a basic caring about others that makes them interested in psychology in the first place.
Jordan Peterson is not a reaction to left politics. His appeal to confused students is much like the appeal of other fringe exploitative beliefs, such as scientology, the alt-right, religious evangelism, and other identity-bestowing beliefs that kids latch onto as they try to form their adult identities. I consider all of these dangerous and wish they weren't allowed free rein on campuses.
This idea that we professors are indoctrinating students and turning them into parrots of leftist beliefs, using right-wing characterizations such as SJW and identity politics, is not true. I don't see it on my campus, even in courses on sociology. Respect for student beliefs is part of how we are evaluated as teachers. We don't try to force anything on them and we do try to expose them to a variety of differing opinions, while teaching them to think critically and evaluate what they are reading. But it is up to the students to learn.
All students should go away to college and come home changed -- that's what you pay those big bucks for. That can be scary for parents, especially those who have tried to indoctrinate their kids into their own beliefs. But they wouldn't have stayed the same if they hadn't gone to college either. Kids grow up and that isn't the fault of the blue bubble.
8:15
Delete“All students should go away to college and come home changed -- that's what you pay those big bucks for. That can be scary for parents, especially those who have tried to indoctrinate their kids into their own beliefs. But they wouldn't have stayed the same if they hadn't gone to college either. Kids grow up and that isn't the fault of the blue bubble.
I have a good friend that if off-the-spectrum right wing. Okay, not Alex Jones off, though I admit I’ve never brought it up. We share common interests, such as a love for music (he’s a great drummer).
I tried to share with him Khalil Gibran’s “The Prophet,” in particular his passage “On Children.” It did not go over well. In a separate correspondence, he described his daughter coming home from her first year at college, and was quite beside himself over the things she had learned there. Himself having never been to college, even though he is a quite successful professional, he was dismayed at her new, freshly-opened mind.
I don’t know how his daughter handled herself, of course. But I told him he should be proud of her newfound individuality. I’ve written him recently, but no reply. Maybe the party’s over, but he’s a great guy. We seldom agree, and our correspondence is always asynchronous, but I’ll keep trying. Thanks for the post.
Leroy
There is an unspeakable amount of crime being exposed in the Trump administration. Palmer Report catalogs "the close confidantes of Trump charged with major crimes or pleading to crimes". They include Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Michael Cohen, Rep Chris Collins (trumps first congressional endorser), George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn. This doesn't include Wilbur Ross, Zinke or Pruitt, or friends and family of Trump under investigation but yet to be indicted. This is not normal.
ReplyDeleteSomerby's reaction is not to express horror at the extent of crime among Trump's close staff, but to suggest that everything is being criminalized, as if these were not major crimes or not crimes at all. He seeks to change the definition of crime. This is in keeping with his suggestion that Don Jr's meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary was legal and routine.
There is too much crime in Trump's administration but it is because Trump is a criminal who has surrounded himself with criminals who are committing crimes and getting caught at it. Not only has the bar for what is criminal not been lowered, but things that would be crimes if Hillary or Obama did them are being overlooked in Trump's administration.
So, no, everything is not being criminalized, as Somerby suggests. Everyone surrounding Trump is a criminal and they are doing what comes naturally to them -- lying, stealing, cheating, and looting the American people. IT MUST STOP!
Again, I have to ask why Somerby, a supposed liberal, is trying to define-away our idea of what is criminal in order to suggest that there is a vendetta against these people that has resulted in crimes manufactured out of thin air -- when he it is obvious that isn't what has happened. What is wrong with Somerby and why is he writing this crap?
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One gets the sense from reading Flanagan that the whole thing is fabricated in order to make the same tired conservative point about liberals and their identity politics, a favorite bugbear of Somerby's. Her whole piece reads like a novel. It wouldn't surprise me that she has no son and that her home is not that of a "progressive Democrat." It just fits the conservative narrative too perfectly for the reader not to exercise extreme skepticism. And she provides zero evidence of the purported heinous policing of speech that she claims is so ubiquitous. Besides, what kind of progressive responds to her son's interest in Jordan Peterson by declaring it represents the death of liberalism? Talk about ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is what Somerby recommends to his readers.
Put these two statements of Somerby together:
ReplyDelete"Could "policed speech" really be part of "the criminalization of everything?""
and
"We have no particular knowledge or experience concerning what is currently happening on campuses"
How can Somerby begin to answer his own question if he has "no particular knowledge" of the central point of Flanagan's article? He recommends her article, yet he apparently simply accepts her assertions about "policed speech" on campuses. Why does he uncritically buy her unsupported claims?
“The criminalization of everything” is a great phrase for bigoted know nothings. So our political and economic life is being poisoned by too many laws? Tell me another, Bob....
ReplyDeleteObama is “the poet laureate of identity politics?” That’s funny, I remember him encouraging ALL Americans to consider the point of view of others. This writer would seem to be a racist twit, and why doesn’t She say anything about what the guy actually says?
ReplyDeletePlus, it's convienent if she is just a racist because it absolves liberals of not recognizing how their own obsession with diversity has encouraged white, rural, religious Americans to think of themselves as a disadvantaged group whose identity is being threatened or ignored.
DeleteThere's nothing to see here. It's just a bunch of mean racists. :)
Prick,
DeleteGreat point about how only liberals have agency.
Remember when Conservatives used to whine and cry about being called "reactionaries"? Good times!
Just goes to show you, if you wait 4 decades, Conservatives will start telling you how correct Liberals were all along.
Who could argue with that logic? ;)
Delete"Who could argue with that logic?"
DeleteConservatives. For about 4 decades, before agreeing with it.
AnonymousAugust 9, 2018 at 8:59 PM -- unfortunately there are plenty of criminals in both parties. E.g.
ReplyDeleteTop Dallas Democrat resigns in disgrace, admits taking more than $450G in lavish bribes http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/09/top-dallas-democrat-resigns-in-disgrace-admits-taking-more-than-450g-in-lavish-bribes.html
That's one reason why I favor a less powerful government.
Yes, you found a corrupt Democrat. That doesn't make the number of criminals the same across parties. The number of criminals in this President's administration are unprecedented and you know it!
DeleteThe criminals are bad, but much of bad government is legal -- working for the benefit of special interests rather than the general public. Add to that the high level of ignorance (like a Congressman who feared that stationing 8,000 Marines on Guam would cause the island to become so overly populated that it would tip over and capsize). You see why I prefer limited government.
Deletehttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tipping-point/
I'm in Guam now.
DeleteDavid, no one is talking about legal activities. The list of people I posted all BROKE LAWS in major ways. You can blame that on government, but I blame it on the people who committed the crimes. In Trump's administration, he set a bad example thus giving a signal to others that it was OK to loot the taxpayers. He hired people who had questionable practices in their past employment (e.g. look at Manafort), and he has provided no oversight or supervision of them (nor has Congress) so that they have done whatever they wanted. This is NOT business as usual, except for a crook like Trump.
DeleteSome regulations exist to prevent crime and abuse of public programs. When Trump has the idea to do away with regulations, he also does away with the controls that keep such abuse from wasting taxpayer money. These people aren't ignorant of the laws -- they manipulate them to their advantage in order to enrich themselves and their friends.
Criminals are bad and that is not government's fault. It is the fault of those criminals, starting with and including Trump because the rot comes from the top in our current administration.
As far a W Bush & Trump. I too prefer limited government. What is obvious is your preference for cherry-picking to support your pathetic trolling.
Delete"You see why I prefer limited government."
DeleteThat reminds me, I'm due for another abortion. I haven't had one in weeks.
"I prefer limited government" says the former John Bircher.
DeleteThat's why he lives in the most regulated state in the country.
To paraphrase Comrade David the treasonous bastard, don't believe what David says, watch what he does.
Yes, Anon 2:20, I am indeed pro-choice.
Deletemm -- California is where my children and grandchildren live, where my wife and I have roots, and a place filled with natural beauty. But, I'd be happier if our state government didn't waste so much of our huge tax payments, if our schools were better, if San Francisco weren't being turned into a giant outdoor toilet, etc.
"I am indeed pro-choice."
DeleteIs this due to your TDS?
--------
Your response to mm, almost makes me not wish at least two of your grandchildren die from polluted air, land and water, so that corporate board-members can make another nickel in profits.
AnonymousAugust 11, 2018 at 12:38 PM -- my grandchildren are breathing heavily polluted air right now, because our Democratic state government hasn't found a way to protect them from wild fires.
Delete"...our Democratic state government hasn't found a way to protect them from wild fires."
DeleteHeadline: Local man, who prefers limited government, can't get enough nanny state
Yes, 12:28, the government properly should do certain functions. The environment is one such. Pure capitalism alone will not protect the environment, because each individual has no economic reason to avoid pollution.
DeleteThe problem comes when the government is stupid. E.g., they don't do enough to protect us from wild fires, but they do protect us against drinking straws.
8:48,
DeleteYour preference for limited government disappeared faster than College Republicans when a military recruiter shows up on campus.
What other deep-seated principles do you hold for 15 seconds at a time?
"...the government properly should do certain functions. The environment is one such. Pure capitalism alone will not protect the environment, because each individual has no economic reason to avoid pollution."
DeleteI'd like you to debate a poster here, who goes by the handle "David in Cal", who thinks government regulations are just a drag on business profits. A fight to death would be greatly appreciated.
It turns out David in Cal is a marxist.
DeleteWho saw that coming?
Here is the post Somerby should have written:
ReplyDeletehttp://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2018/08/jordan-peterson-is-caitlin-flanagans-q.html
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Clearly it’s the “criminalization” of everything bit that is attractive to Bob here. Bob seems to have dropped the “legal solution to a political problem “ bit, maybe that even embarrasses him a little now. But he still refers to the case against Trump as “legal trivia” and the Colorado ruling against Trump as “insane.”
ReplyDeleteDonald Trump has taught a generation of young people that honesty is for weaklings, that cheating is fighting, that a good strategy is to accuse your opponent of the dirty tactics you clearly embrace. No one seems to consider any long term effects of this, so I guess it’s a little unfair to expect Bob to.