Morning Joe puts the "wit" back in Wittes: We're willing to agree with Kenneth Starr on one point. As our political norms melt down, we have begun to flirt with life inside an "age of impeachment."
Two of the nation's last four presidents have now been impeached. That's out of a total of three in all of American history!
Back when Starr was the Javert doggedly tracking Bill Clinton, people sometimes said that a Clinton impeachment might tend to lead to future impeachments. That struck us as far-fetched at the time. But whatever one thinks of the Trump impeachment, it seems less far-fetched now.
That said, it was odd to see Ken Starr, of all apparent people, wringing his hands yesterday about the age of impeachment. On this morning's Morning Joe, this led to one of the best political jokes we've ever seen.
Joe Scarborough started the program by staging an epic rant about the dunce-like behavior of the Trump lawyers at yesterday's hearing.
Below, you see part of what Scarborough said about Starr. Then you see the dry-as-dust reply from Benjamin Wittes, a legal journalist and the cofounder of Lawfare:
SCARBOROUGH (1/28/20): This is a man who put in the impeachment report allegations of "oral, anal contact." That’s what Ken Starr did. That’s what a [potential] Supreme Court justice did. That’s what they put in their impeachment report.Does Ken Starr know he's Ken Starr? It was Wittes' dry delivery which totally sold the remark. You can watch the award-winning quip at this link, just after the three-minute mark.
And we’re talking now about a president who’s not only asking a foreign power to interfere, he then goes on national TV a week later and asks China to interfere in America’s democratic elections, a risk that Donald Trump’s own intel agencies say is the greatest threat to American democracy. And Ken Starr is lecturing America about taking impeachment too lightly? When I told you what he filled his impeachment report with?
It's just—it's preposterous...
WITTES: Yeah, so I was sitting with a colleague yesterday watching Ken Starr’s presentation. And she turned to me and said, "Does Ken Starr know he’s Ken Starr?"
The Morning Joe panel broke for laughter after Wittes relayed his colleague's remark. "I think that kind of, you know, captured the whole thing, that there was so little self-awareness," Wittes finally said when he continued speaking.
In fairness, a certain lack of self-awareness can perhaps be spotted at various present-day venues. That said:
Does Ken Starr know he's Ken Starr? Even as our systems melt down all around us, scholars say there's no reason to avoid the occasional mordant quip!
"It was Wittes' dry delivery which totally sold the remark."
ReplyDeleteBut it's a bullshit remark, dear Bob. It's not only a bullshit remark, it's actually a slimy McCarthyist remark.
Of course our beloved president didn't "ask China to interfere in America’s democratic elections". He asked the Chinese government to investigate cases of corruption that involved American citizens and entities under the Chinese jurisdiction. Just as he should, according to his oath of office.
If you aren't capable of realizing this, then sadly your supposed media criticism ain't worth a dime, dear Bob. You sound just like any other dembot. Oh well...
Mao - Two questions of principle that may or may not have bearing on the current impeachment:
Delete1) Is it OK for presidents to use the power of their office to launch criminal investigations of their opponents for their own political advantage?
2) If not, what safeguards are there or ought there to be to prevent that?
He asked the Chinese government...
DeleteBwahahaha!!!! Yes, that is exactly what the fucking imbecile did, in broad daylight, screaming on the WH lawn with the helicopter blades roaring in the background.
The smartest fucking deal maker in the history of the universe!!!! Bwahahaha!!!
Well, like I said, it's their obligation, to uphold the law.
DeleteTwo question for you:
1. Who is this 'opponent' you speak of? Joe Biden? He's an opponent of Mr Sanders, Mrs Warren, and a bunch of other clowns, but surely he's NOT Mr Trump's opponent. And
2. Why do you believe investigating Mr Biden would be advantageous for Mr Trump? Is it because you're assuming that the allegations against Mr Biden are well founded? Because if Mr Biden is not guilty of anything, the investigation would be to his advantage. To clear his name. Right?
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"but surely he's NOT Mr Trump's opponent"
DeleteAs they say in the litigation biz, this argument doesn't pass the giggle test.
Hmm. Is it just Creepy Joe in the category of "Trump's opponents whose crimes mustn't be investigated", or are there more?
DeleteCan "Bernie" Demigod Sanders be investigated? The Fake Indian? John Hickenlooper? Anyone registered as a D? Any never-trumper registered as an R or I?
Tell me, dembot.
Trump's Mark at 6:06 AM thinks this is about investigating crimes. Grifters make a sucker of these Right-wing fools, because grifters are lazy, and Right-wingers are the easiest targets for their scams.
DeleteMao - You didn't answer my questions, which, as I said, may or may not relate to the current impeachment. I'm asking, not about Trump, but in general and as a matter of principle:
Delete1) Is it OK for presidents to use the power of their office to launch criminal investigations of their opponents for their own political advantage?
2) If not, what safeguards are there or ought there to be to prevent that?
If it helps, imagine that we are talking about President Obama.
Presidents don't 'launch' criminal investigations. But they can help a criminal investigation by asking a foreign leader to cooperate, for example.
DeleteI believe I already did answer you question: if there's compelling evidence of criminal activity, and if presidential intervention is necessary, then it's not just okay, it's their duty.
...but since this has nothing to do with the current events, where Biden is not Trump's 'opponent' (in the implied sense), what's the point of this question?
DeleteQuestion for you: if indeed Mr Biden blackmailed the Ukrainian president to help the business paying protection money to his family, would you still prefer Mr Biden to be one of the D's contenders, rather than being investigated?
Thanks in advance.
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It is hilarious that Somerby considers 3 observations an insufficient sample size, but then considers two impeachments in two different centuries to be a pattern.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that these two impeachments both arise from the same cause -- Republican bad faith.
The Clinton Presidential Library has a display that outlines the change in Republican politics and Newt Gingrich, where they shifted from governing as a political party and became obstructionists whose sole goal was to immobilize the President and interfere with the opposition party. That has continued to this day, so these are not two distinct impeachments, but a continuation of the Republican destruction of representative democracy as they use political power to line their own pockets.
It is not a coincidence that Ken Starr is involved in both impeachments. It is not a coincidence that Republicans consider this current impeachment to be a cynical political maneuver, and it is not a second impeachment in any "Age of Impeachment" but a continuation of the use of government to loot the American resources for the benefit of Republicans and their cronies.
There is no joke here, no wit. Somerby is echoing the conservative line with this garbage and it is wrong of him to try to convince anyone that there is anything funny about what is happening to our nation.
…Somerby considers … considers two impeachments in two different centuries to be a pattern.
DeleteHe doesn’t. He says,
we have begun to flirt with … “an age of impeachment.”
Not that we’re living in an age of impeachment.
Not that we’re seriously involved with continuing impeachments.
Not that that we’re frivolously consumed with impeachments.
Just that we’ve begun to flirt.
TDH also says, “it seems less far-fetched now” to think that Clinton’s impeachment would lead to “future impeachments.”
Not that some pattern is clearly evident.
Not that some pattern is likely evident.
Just that the thought of a connection is less absurd than it used to be.
[T]hese are not two distinct impeachments, but a continuation of the Republican destruction of representative democracy….
Nope. Two distinct impeachments. You can tell because the persons impeached are different, there are two different resolutions of impeachment passed by different sessions of the House, and there are two different Senate trials presided over by different Chief Justices.
That Republican malfeasance underlies the initiation of one and the defense of the other does not make them the same.
There is no joke here, no wit.
If by “here,” you mean your comment, then you’re only half right. The second half.
Somerby is echoing the conservative line with this garbage and it is wrong of him to try to convince anyone that there is anything funny about what is happening to our nation.
The astounding hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness of Republicans in general and Starr in particular is hardly a “conservative” line.
And look up the word mordant.
You can’t or won’t read for comprehension. Nothing TDH has written here has any resemblance to the imaginary blog entry you’ve conjured out of your skull.
But thanks for sharing.
"Nope. Two distinct impeachments. You can tell because the persons impeached are different, there are two different resolutions of impeachment passed by different sessions of the House, and there are two different Senate trials presided over by different Chief Justices."
DeleteThis is why people suspect you may be autistic.
This is why people suspect you may be autistic.
DeleteOh, please. No one with an ounce of sense thinks I’m autistic. Rude, snide, boorish, and contemptuous, sure. But that’s different.
My objection is to the commenter’s continuing statements that contradict obvious facts. This one is right up there: “it is not a second impeachment…” But that’s exactly what it is. If you want to say that the first impeachment (Clinton’s) and the defense against the second impeachment (Trump’s) are both grounded in Republican mendacity, then it’s both simple and accurate to make that claim.
But even that claim obscures the difference between the ideologues of the Gingrich era and the nihilists of the McConnell era. Gingrich and his crew attempted to impose their view of government through legislative vandalism, in which impeachment was just another brick to be thrown through the window. Trump’s impeachment arose from what was essentially an attempted executive coup via a claim of unlimited Presidential power unrelated to anything but personal aggrandizement. The craven Republican defense of Trump is made in abject surrender of legislative authority.
If the hapless commenter who’s the target of my contempt wants to make an argument that TDH is really a “conservative,” that’s fine with me. But whatever evidence marshaled in that attempt shouldn’t simply ignore what TDH writes. Pointing out the ludicrous hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness thereof by Ken Starr and his new employers is simply not a “conservative line.”
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
Delete“An age of impeachment”
ReplyDeleteThe Clinton impeachment was utterly bogus, a bad faith abuse of the impeachment power by rabid partisan Republicans. Even Ken Starr seems to fell that way...now.
That doesn’t mean the current impeachment is wrong. In fact, it may be essential to hold a truly abusive, lawless president like Trump accountable. It isn’t appropriate to lump this impeachment in with the previous one, unless you think the ongoing impeachment is just as bogus as the last one.
Sure, one of Trump’s lawyers suggested they would use impeachment as a political weapon. But that’s Republicans for you.
The Democrats will continue to use the power appropriately.
If Somerby is opposed to impeachment as a rule, then he needs to ask himself why the power exists in the constitution. If he is specifically opposed to this one, he ought to ask himself why the Congress should just overlook clear abuses by the President. Wouldn’t that simply embolden future presidents (or the current one) to abuse the office? Does he not think Trump has committed impeachable offenses?
But the biggest idiocy here is that the GOP abused the power of impeachment initially, and now Somerby wants Democrats to forego a valid use of impeachment now because Republicans might retaliate in future by another Clinton-like bogus impeachment. Except the Republicans *will* engage in another bogus impeachment, regardless of what Democrats do or don’t do. Had Hillary won, they were already planning to impeach her. THEY ALREADY ABUSED THE POWER ONCE. They will do it again.
Somerby wants to hold the Democrats liable for Republican bad faith. Not cool.
Do you realize that you're responding to a blog entry you've made up out of whole cloth?
DeleteAnd it's forgo.
The quip would be funnier if it was brought up when Starr was covering up rape allegations at Baylor, after supporting impeachment of a President for having consensual sex with an adult.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t know that presidents took vows to be celibate while in office.
DeleteMight be one more reason for that rapid aging thing.
Cecelia,
DeletePresidents don't take a vow of celibacy while in office. That the majority of Right-wingers can be convinced they do, shines a spotlight on their gullibility.
Meanwhile Right-wing support of Starr's cover-up of rape allegations, shines a spotlight on their (lack of) morality.
To quote Denny Green: "They are who we thought they were."
“To quote Denny Green: "They are who we thought they were."‘
DeleteI don’t call that sort thinking as being gullibility on someone’s part. That wouldn’t begin to describe it.
"That wouldn’t begin to describe it. "
DeleteTrue, but I've been told it's not politically correct to call Right-wingers the pieces of shit they obviously are.
But when you do it anyway, the voices in your head then say it’s too pc of anyone to object.
DeleteIt called blogboard psychosis.
Cecelia,
DeleteYou're almost there. Take the next step: realize Right-wingers crave the PC they pretend to despise.
Every Right-wing accusation is a confession.
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